Z4 roof doesn't go down manually

[epsilon]

Big thanks to Dave who gave help over the phone about the roof motor. However the roof doesn't seem to go down manually, it seems to be stuck halfway, no matter how much you push. The red Bowden cable has been pulled out and pushed to the left.

I have removed the shelf in the back and can see the roof motor, if I clip the cable ties off is the roof motor easy to disconnect?

Many thanks

 

[sw4nny]

If it wont go down manually the red cable may be stuck at the motor end ,mine was.
Once the cable ties are cut it is easy to get out
If you are wanting an explanation of how to disconnect motor from hydraulics
Then once motor is outside the black plastic casing,unplug the 2 electrical connections and then the 2 bolts that hold the motor to the reservoir then it should come apart,be careful not to lose any bits from inside.if you lose fluid it can be topped up easily.
Hope this makes sense.
If you pm me i will give you my number if you need any further information.

 

[Anonymous]

Sw4nny has given you part of an explanation here for your problem , but I think alittle more info would help here ....

Read it all before you do anything ....

The motor is inside the plastic casing you can see with the shelf removed, and all the hydraulic and electrical cables and the bypass cable ( Bowden ) are held by the lower section of the two part plastic casing which houses the actual pump and motor assembly , this lower casing is also attached in most cases ( unless your lucky ) to the roof frame by either a screw or a cable tie or both .

Simply snipping the cable ties you can see with the parcel shelf removed isn't likely to release the motor casing .

The motor casing has two halfs , the cables and connections are attached to the bottom half, which is the half attached to the frame , so unless the casing isn't attached to the roof frame you still won't be able to remove it . Same applies to removing the top of the casing, the motor is still held in by the fact that the bottom casing is holding all the pump and motor cables , however removing the top will help you gain extra purchase on the motor and pump assembly to break the complete motor pump and Lower casting free from the roof frame .( you have to break the screw lug / cable tie or both to get it free)

Now ...... Your problem appears to be that the bypass cable isn't working correctly . First check that you have pulled the red handle out of its guide and turned it 90 degrees and located it correctly in its locked out position . If you look at the red handle ( the inner cable ) and its outer cable socket ( black guide where the red handle fits in ) you will see that they have slots , grooves and channels and guides that allow you to lock the handle in its out position .

The cable has a simple mechanical operation at the pump end ,where pulling it out and locking it into to out position pushes a ball value in ,that bypasses the pump hydraulics . If your roof simply goes half down with the handle pulled out correctly ,and then locks up , the hydraulic fluid isn't running through the pipes fully as it should . ...... Or there is an obstruction in the folding mechanisum ( unlikely but not impossible )

What is happening here if it's not an obstruction , is that it starts to go down and fluid flows into the resouvior ( but not out the other side ) until the resoviuor is completely full and then locks up as there isn't any more room for the remaining fluid in the resoviuor , it needs to come out to completely lower the roof , but it can't ,so it stays in the pipes leaving the roof partly up/down . It should flow through the pump and into the Rams . ......., see the pump operates by pushing hydraulic fluid around a closed system with two Rams , one each side of the roof mechanisum.
The pump has 4 pipes attached to it , put simply 2 are up pipes and 2 are down pipes . Press the up button and the pump runs one direction and pumps the fluid into the up pipes , this pushed the Rams up, and empties the down pipes ( all via the resoviuor) , press the down button and the pump runs the other direction and pumps the fluid into the down pipes that push the Rams the other way and empties the up pipes . Simple

The bypass cable just allows fluid to free flow manually without the pump doing anything .

The bypass cable ( Bowden cable ) has a white adjuster on it , between the red handle and the pump . Follow the cable from the handle around the roof edge under the boot with the shelf removed and you should find it , it's white and unscrews in two halfs, as you unscrew it the cable , any slack is taken up, it's possible you just need to adjust it tighter as its not fully engaging and depressing the ball value when in its out position, try tightening ( unscrewing the adjuster a couple of turns ) . If you adjust it too far the motor will not pump the fluid correctly after you've put the handle back in the non bypass position , re adjust until the pump works correctly , manually and with the pump .

A correctly working roof should operate from start to finish in about 12 seconds up or down .

Hope that all makes sense ?

 

[epsilon]

Thank you very much for the information it will be very helpful when I get to the motor, just wanted to do more reading before I remove the motor.

Many thanks again for the information

 

[Anonymous]

It's fairly likely that your existing motor can be revived and re-used, if it were me I would remove your old motor read for relocation and then try and revive the motor and reuse it . If it can't be revived, you can then replace with a replacement motor . That way you have no outlay to start with and your ready to do a replacement if you need to buy a new motor/pump.

Always happy to talk you through things if that helps

 

[epsilon]

Thank you very much for the help. After a lot of reading I attempted this today (took nearly 3 hours!), with the passenger seat all the way forward I can feel the cable tie holding the pump onto the metal and also tried levering it out. The pump is loose but doesn't seem to come out. Any suggestions?

I also tried getting some little scissors down there and tried guiding it onto the cable tie, but don't want to cut a hydraulic line. I will try again tomorrow. If I cut the cable tie will the entire casing come straight out?

 

[Anonymous]

It's a job that requires some nerve as you are always worried about breaking something , and of course this is always a risk , however in most cases all your likely to do at worst is break the motor casing . Which you don't need to do a relocation .

The cable tie is normally around a plastic tab which runs down the side of the plastic casing the motor is located in . Normally I put a pry bar or large screw driver down the gap and try and lever the casing off the frame , you need to snap the cable tie or the tab it's passed through . As I said above in a previous past above there could also be a single screw too but breaking the tab normally releases the motor . The motor will not normally come out without at least the bottom casing attached because the pipe work and electrical connection are routed through guides moulders into the lower plastic casing, so unless your lucky you need to snap the cable tie or plastic tabs or both . Removing the top casing and trying to get a better purchase on the lower casing through the boot to snap the thing out can also work . The hydraulic pipes are fairly robust to be honest ( plastic coated with metal Inners ) and won't cut easily but do be sensible . When I did my first one it took me a few hours and you have to be fairly brave and forceful . I used a various pry bars but I also find that a screw driver placed on top of the cable tie and then hit swiftly with a hammer is enough to snap the tie , but as I say there could be a screw holding it too and if that's the case you will need to snap the casing free as without removing the roof you can't access this screw at all .

If you need some guidance or this doesn't make sense feel free to ring me 07771847714 you won't be the first today !

Bryan

 

[epsilon]

Finally got to the roof motor!! Thank you for your advise.

Is it now just a case of undoing the two bolts and taking it out? There still seems to be something hindering it to come out from the bottom. I accessed it all from behind the passenger seat, so much water in the casing!! It's literally sloshing around!

 

[Anonymous]

Ok, looks like you have managed to get the top part of the casing off , but the motor is still in its lower casing and still attached to the frame .

Yes it's normal to find the motor sloshing around in a water filled lower casing . The motor is held into the lower casing by the routing that the hydraulic pipes and electrical connection take . It would be best to get the lower casing and motor out together before undoing any connections .

Ring me again , as I am in the Birmingham area today , it may be possible to meet up if you are able .

 

[epsilon]

Thanks again for your help,the roof motor is sat in a jug of diesel, it works though!!

How do we top up the hydraulic oil, is it just normal hydraulic oil and around the halfway mark? Forgot to mark it before (oops) but we have labelled all the hydraulic lines.

Many thanks for your help over the phone

 

[Anonymous]

No problem at all for the help, it's good to talk !

Have you separated the pump and motor ?

Make sure you run the motor submerged in the diesel for about 10 mins each way . Just connect a 12v supply to the terminals and plonk it in the diesel and let it run, after 10 mins take it out and swap the power supply over so it runs the opposite way and plonk it back in for another 10 mins .if you haven't separated the motor and pump just do the above but stand the unit upright in the diesel with the power wires at the bottom and leave the pump ports ( where the pipes bolt on) well above the diesel level .

The plastic resoviour on the pump has a screw in the top , undo that when all the pipes are back on to top up the oil . There is a + sign on the side of the plastic resoviuor , fill it up to that mark with the pump and motor in a vertical position . It's about half way up the resoviuor . The pump is self priming so when it's all back together it may take a few operation cycles to work the roof and you need to keep and eye on the level as it does this . Then it should be fine .

You should use VG22 hydraulic oil . Most good motor factors sell it . It's a thin hydraulic oil especially for roof motors . Other hydraulic oils will work , but they are thicker and in cold weather the pump will over work to push the thicker oil through the pump .

 

[RJS-Z4]

Thanks again for your help,the roof motor is sat in a jug of diesel, it works though!!

How do we top up the hydraulic oil, is it just normal hydraulic oil and around the halfway mark? Forgot to mark it before (oops) but we have labelled all the hydraulic lines.

Many thanks for your help over the phone

You may not need to top it up, careful of that, when it's half way through a cycle, or at the wrong angle, it can appear to need topping up..

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks again for your help,the roof motor is sat in a jug of diesel, it works though!!

How do we top up the hydraulic oil, is it just normal hydraulic oil and around the halfway mark? Forgot to mark it before (oops) but we have labelled all the hydraulic lines.

Many thanks for your help over the phone

You may not need to top it up, careful of that, when it's half way through a cycle, or at the wrong angle, it can appear to need topping up..

The OP has disconnected the pipes whilst the motor was in situ as he had trouble getting the bottom casing to come away from the frame, the motor and pump have been tilted and tipped every which way to get it out ,there will be some topping up required and as my post above clearly stated you only need to fill it up half way, run it a few times , check and refill if required . With the motor running and self priming itself the level will sort it self out after a few runs up and down . It only needs fluid half way up as the fluid runs around a sealed system , as the fluid in the resoviour is pumped and pushed down two of the four hydraulic lines ( when you press the up or down button ) to move the Rams in one direction ( up or down ) , the moving Rams push the fluid already on the other side of the Rams back down the other two hydraulic lines towards the resoviour so it constantly has a supply of fluid .

If there is too little fluid in the resoviour the pump can't push fluid down the lines and so cannot be replenished by the sealed cycle , but unless you fill it completely to the top you shouldn't have an issue , but my advice is fill it just around half way whilst the pump is vertical, this allows for fluid expansion etc , the top seals aren't very robust on the resoviour so just do the screw up firmly but not white knuckle tight .

 

[epsilon]

The roof motor has been removed from the casing, then the bottom casing was broken off. It has now been relocated into the boot thanks to my dads mechanic friend (and dietcokeman for his help over the phone) as I couldn't break off the casing. The oil used was Granville hydraulic jack oil VG22. I will attach some more pictures tomorrow!

 

[Anonymous]

The roof motor has been removed from the casing, then the bottom casing was broken off. It has now been relocated into the boot thanks to my dads mechanic friend (and dietcokeman for his help over the phone) as I couldn't break off the casing. The oil used was Granville hydraulic jack oil VG22. I will attach some more pictures tomorrow![/quote

Well done fella , i knew you'd get there in the end. That did seem to be a particularly tough one . Relocated in the boot now it's in a place easy to get too now.

 

[epsilon]

The roof motor has been removed from the casing, then the bottom casing was broken off. It has now been relocated into the boot thanks to my dads mechanic friend (and dietcokeman for his help over the phone) as I couldn't break off the casing. The oil used was Granville hydraulic jack oil VG22. I will attach some more pictures tomorrow![/quote

Well done fella , i knew you'd get there in the end. That did seem to be a particularly tough one . Relocated in the boot now it's in a place easy to get too now.

The roof still needs a little help to drop it down. I have sprayed WD40 on all the latches but still needs help to drop it down, and the motor makes a loud noise when dropping down! Also it fails to latch down when it is fully retracted. Not sure if the roof motor needs replacing or not. However on the plus side the roof does go back up and latched closed without an issue!

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you possibly have a weak motor in one direction . The good news is that now you can access it easily .

To check your motor , with the roof up unlatch it so it comes away from the screen with the down button and then release the button . Remove the power cables from the bottom of the motor and swap over the two sets of hydraulic lines . Run a independent 12v power supply to the motor to power it , if the motor now goes down fully and makes a noise going up then your motor is weak in one direction . This isn't common but after sitting in a bath of rusty water for a while it can happen . You either need a motor rebuild or a replacement motor .