thanks for the responses guys, much appreciated. This will definitely help me make more of an informed decision, next step is to go out and drive both. Surprised on the amount of feedback on the z4m having a notchy shift compared to the 3.0si as I thought they were the same ZF gearbox. Such a shame the z4m didn't get the e46 m3 getrag.
Z4 Coupe vs Z4M Coupe - which is best
- Thread starter CraigP
- Start date
blobslosak
Member
The m is just as tricky to change gear in as the si until warm imo, CDV removed on both and still tricky. Redline fluid helped on my si so plan on doing that with the m. Main difference is the clutch is much heavier. I like the challenge of perfecting the gear change though, rewards the effort to learn it.
Just to comment on the E46M3 gearbox comparison, I've owned several and the box's aren't great to be honest.
The SMGs are notoriously bad as you probably know and although everyone goes mad about the manuals they aren't brilliant with a slow change and stupidly long throw.
Most enthusiasts tend to modify the change especially if it's used on track.
The SMGs are notoriously bad as you probably know and although everyone goes mad about the manuals they aren't brilliant with a slow change and stupidly long throw.
Most enthusiasts tend to modify the change especially if it's used on track.
blobslosak said:
Agreed! I had a 02 Ver 7 WRX STI and the new clutch I put in it was horrible however once learnt there was definitely a sense of achievement there.
Tyreman said:
Ha yes that older European long throw shift. Did a quick search and it seems the Z4 3.0si, Z4M and 130i actually all use the same ZF 6MT gearbox (ZF S6-37) which makes a lot of sense. Good to know there will be some familiarity there though I didn't do a CDV delete on my 130i.
I've been in this conundrum for years now, few years ago was able to test drive a MR and without the cdv done was still up in the air on it (not to mention at the time recovering from a torn bicep really put the damper on enjoying shifts). These days from what I've seen the trend a SI coupe with decent miles is going for same mileage comparison in price to a MR, MC though are double the price of a SI coupe with similar mileage. Honestly I haven't been able to justify going with a MC when now you're in a price range of a used F-Type S trim coupe in comparison.
That's why I just purchased few months back a 2011 128 for all my daily use. I don't see me getting rid of my roady any time soon if at all since the Mrs. is promising it to our 4 year old lol so if in another couple of years or so if I haven't done anything yet for a coupe the F-type R trim is trending to be more in my price range for then.
So it'll remain a conundrum a while longer lol. That and taking the roady out yesterday for the first time this year couldn't stop smiling ear to ear
That's why I just purchased few months back a 2011 128 for all my daily use. I don't see me getting rid of my roady any time soon if at all since the Mrs. is promising it to our 4 year old lol so if in another couple of years or so if I haven't done anything yet for a coupe the F-type R trim is trending to be more in my price range for then.
So it'll remain a conundrum a while longer lol. That and taking the roady out yesterday for the first time this year couldn't stop smiling ear to ear
Z4 Coupe is a great car out the box, in essence it is an entry level sports car. However it is no M car.CraigP said:
The electronic steering is not the best, the suspension is soft (which is good for commuting), but not great for B road bashing or track driving. Also and most importantly it lacks an LSD, and you can definitely notice the inner wheel spinning up when powering out of bends (assuming if driven properly).
M cars are special. But this is most only realised when on a fast B road or on track. Despite them offering you more kudos when down at the pub.
Imo price doesn’t come into this as they are 2 different cars in different categories.
If you want a car to commute to and from work everyday then you are better off with the Z4 Coupe. If however you fancy a weekend warrior, which you will take on road trips (perhaps through Europe) and the odd trackday, you are better off with the Z4 M Coupe.
North West Surrey
Mr Tidy said:Piper1 said:
I don't think prices are quite far enough apart to allow for an Si Coupe and an MR for the price of an MC - certainly not based on what I paid for my MC and what I got for my Si!
Guess depends on the part of the world you're in. Quick look at cargurus in nation wide US market cheapest MC from private owner is in 20K dealers starting at almost 34k MR start at 13k and si coupes start at 7k. For 60kish on the clock si coupes are around 13k. So yeah here you could get both for 20-25k with decent miles if you went MR and si coupe
where.is.lee said:
I have had a couple of 130i's and the 3.0si coupe feels like it pulls a lot harder and despite losing hydraulic steering feels far more raw than the 130i.
The S54 is a peach of an engine, I have had a few, but not the Z4, and it is one of my favourites, however, there is a but, and it is a big but for me, I hate the clutch on them, and the gearchange is pretty clunky too.
You can remove the CDV and put in Redline Automatic Transmission Fluid in the 'box which helps the gearchange, but the clutch is still heavy and a chore and that alone sort of writes off the Z4MC for me.
Then you have the steering, yeah it should be amazing, being hydraulic, but on the standard suspension and geometry I found it a bit too clunky for a road car, don't get me wrong on a really nice piece of sweeping tarmac it is lovely, but that is such a rare thing round my way that it made the whole car feel a bit of an effort, especially with the heavy clutch. When the roads are empty and smooth it is great, but for me I knew I would find an excuse to take a different car unless I was really in the mood for it. There is a fine line between feeling raw and feeling hard work, and as standard I felt the Z4MC was right on that line. I ended up buying an M3 CSL at the time.
To put that in perspective I used my M3 CSL as a daily for nearly a year so not opposed to using a performance car as a daily at all.
The problem for me was as standard the Z4MC did have quite the right balance, by that I mean it seemed to almost understeer a bit and then when the back end let go it really snapped. After M3s etc. I was really surprised about this, I am sure with a better geo set up and probably a square set up on the wheels it would be bang on, but I just found that trying to balance it on the throttle was pretty tough. I also think being so firmly damped didn't help either, which leads onto suspension.
Suspension wise I find the Z4c 3.0si is too firmly damped for UK roads, and with run flats it is shocking imho, at least the Z4M got non runflats and a decent sized sidewall profile to give some bite on corners that are not billiard table smooth.
I'm not saying don't buy a Z4M, if you are happy with the clutch the extra running costs will be offset by less depreciation, in fact I bet if you buy now you will see the price go up in 12 months, and it would be a hoot, but even the 3.0si will feel far more special than your 130i that I promise you. My 130i's were manual, my 3.0si is auto, but it still feels more engaging.
I would love to try someone's Z4MC now, a few years down the line when people have played more with tyres and geometry, and someone who has maybe sorted the gearchange and clutch out a bit. I reckon owners have got them dialled in these days and probably far more info about them there was when they came out to help sort out any niggles.
I reckon which ever you choose you will really like.
gIzzE said:
That's a pretty good summary.
I can live with the M clutch and running costs as mine is a weekend/fun car, and definitely is a hoot on a clear road!
But my manual 3.0Sis felt far more urgent and exciting than my daily E90 330i with the same engine does.
There isn't a bad choice at the end of the day!
blobslosak
Member
dgm said:
Sitting on a motorway in a z4m is a waste of a z4m. Nothing to man up about, it's just absolutely pointless commuting in one for me. By the time it was warm I'd be at work and would have driven on A roads and motorways. Zero point in doing that.
gIzzE said:I have had a couple of 130i's and the 3.0si coupe feels like it pulls a lot harder and despite losing hydraulic steering feels far more raw than the 130i.
The S54 is a peach of an engine, I have had a few, but not the Z4, and it is one of my favourites, however, there is a but, and it is a big but for me, I hate the clutch on them, and the gearchange is pretty clunky too.
You can remove the CDV and put in Redline Automatic Transmission Fluid in the 'box which helps the gearchange, but the clutch is still heavy and a chore and that alone sort of writes off the Z4MC for me.
Then you have the steering, yeah it should be amazing, being hydraulic, but on the standard suspension and geometry I found it a bit too clunky for a road car, don't get me wrong on a really nice piece of sweeping tarmac it is lovely, but that is such a rare thing round my way that it made the whole car feel a bit of an effort, especially with the heavy clutch. When the roads are empty and smooth it is great, but for me I knew I would find an excuse to take a different car unless I was really in the mood for it. There is a fine line between feeling raw and feeling hard work, and as standard I felt the Z4MC was right on that line. I ended up buying an M3 CSL at the time.
To put that in perspective I used my M3 CSL as a daily for nearly a year so not opposed to using a performance car as a daily at all.
The problem for me was as standard the Z4MC did have quite the right balance, by that I mean it seemed to almost understeer a bit and then when the back end let go it really snapped. After M3s etc. I was really surprised about this, I am sure with a better geo set up and probably a square set up on the wheels it would be bang on, but I just found that trying to balance it on the throttle was pretty tough. I also think being so firmly damped didn't help either, which leads onto suspension.
Suspension wise I find the Z4c 3.0si is too firmly damped for UK roads, and with run flats it is shocking imho, at least the Z4M got non runflats and a decent sized sidewall profile to give some bite on corners that are not billiard table smooth.
I'm not saying don't buy a Z4M, if you are happy with the clutch the extra running costs will be offset by less depreciation, in fact I bet if you buy now you will see the price go up in 12 months, and it would be a hoot, but even the 3.0si will feel far more special than your 130i that I promise you. My 130i's were manual, my 3.0si is auto, but it still feels more engaging.
I would love to try someone's Z4MC now, a few years down the line when people have played more with tyres and geometry, and someone who has maybe sorted the gearchange and clutch out a bit. I reckon owners have got them dialled in these days and probably far more info about them there was when they came out to help sort out any niggles.
I reckon which ever you choose you will really like.
That's a great summary! after a lot of input I can definitely see why people may go for the Z4 3.0si over a Z4MC. I will definitely explore this next year when I revisit the z4 market. I didn't buy a z4 in the end due to a lot of factors and ended up purchasing a Clio 182 Trophy which has been an absolute hoot!
Well in case you do revisit the E86 market having owned both I'd stick by what I said before about the 3.0Si being about 80% of the M for around 50% of the money!
I had my Sis for over 5 years and have now had my M for 10 months - where did they go?
All my E86s have been "special occasion" cars, but if I was buying one as a daily I'd probably just stick to an Si - as someone said earlier it's a bit of a waste sitting on a motorway in an M!
Although the clutch is a bit heavier in the M I don't find it a problem, and it operates much better since I got the Clutch Delay Valve removed. I've never had an issue with the gearbox (unlike the obstructive one in my 330i) and it may be significant that the Z4M has a ZF gearbox unlike the E46 M3 (Getrag, I think) so that may not be a valid comparison.
The steering may not be fantastic in the M, but I much prefer it to the Si. But for some reason the HPAS in my 330i has more feel than either. :?
In terms of values going up of down I think both seem to hold their value pretty well, but doubt either will shoot up in the next few years - whichever you choose just buy it to enjoy it.
But be prepared to spend much more running an M. Apart from the "M tax" on parts the M needs an Inspection service every 4 years or less involving checking the valve clearances and adjusting with shims if required. And I had the bearing shells on mine replaced in August as a preventative measure, but admittedly I doubt I'll need to get them done again. Although looking at the shells that came out I'm glad I had them done. Then there is the obvious Road Tax issue of £570 a year instead of £330.
Sitting in either feels a bit special and while the Si has a fantastic engine as soon as I fire up the M I realise it is an epic engine.
So I've spent more on servicing for my M in 10 months than I spent on my Sis in 5 years. Do I regret it - no way!
Whatever you buy it pays to go into it with your eyes open.
I had my Sis for over 5 years and have now had my M for 10 months - where did they go?
All my E86s have been "special occasion" cars, but if I was buying one as a daily I'd probably just stick to an Si - as someone said earlier it's a bit of a waste sitting on a motorway in an M!
Although the clutch is a bit heavier in the M I don't find it a problem, and it operates much better since I got the Clutch Delay Valve removed. I've never had an issue with the gearbox (unlike the obstructive one in my 330i) and it may be significant that the Z4M has a ZF gearbox unlike the E46 M3 (Getrag, I think) so that may not be a valid comparison.
The steering may not be fantastic in the M, but I much prefer it to the Si. But for some reason the HPAS in my 330i has more feel than either. :?
In terms of values going up of down I think both seem to hold their value pretty well, but doubt either will shoot up in the next few years - whichever you choose just buy it to enjoy it.
But be prepared to spend much more running an M. Apart from the "M tax" on parts the M needs an Inspection service every 4 years or less involving checking the valve clearances and adjusting with shims if required. And I had the bearing shells on mine replaced in August as a preventative measure, but admittedly I doubt I'll need to get them done again. Although looking at the shells that came out I'm glad I had them done. Then there is the obvious Road Tax issue of £570 a year instead of £330.
Sitting in either feels a bit special and while the Si has a fantastic engine as soon as I fire up the M I realise it is an epic engine.
So I've spent more on servicing for my M in 10 months than I spent on my Sis in 5 years. Do I regret it - no way!
Whatever you buy it pays to go into it with your eyes open.
I currently own a Z3M Coupe and love it for its outright rawness and driving appeal i.e. totally connected to the road. I have just sold my M240i Daily Driver as it was just Soooooooo boring!
My Dilema is do I buy a Z4 3.0 si Coupe or the Z4M Coupe as my daily driver. Bear in mind that I will sometimes have a passenger so a reasonable ride is a minor priority.
Cost is not an issue (I can pick up a really good 3.0 si for under £10K or a Z4MC for circa £20K) it is simply a case of which is the best for a DD considering that I also have an S50 Z3MC.
All comments appreciated
My Dilema is do I buy a Z4 3.0 si Coupe or the Z4M Coupe as my daily driver. Bear in mind that I will sometimes have a passenger so a reasonable ride is a minor priority.
Cost is not an issue (I can pick up a really good 3.0 si for under £10K or a Z4MC for circa £20K) it is simply a case of which is the best for a DD considering that I also have an S50 Z3MC.
All comments appreciated