Z4 Coupe vs Z4M Coupe - which is best

C

CraigP

Member
 West Yorkshire
A controversial topic I'm sure but since joining the forum a couple of months ago, I ended up buying a z4 coupe 44000 miles for 11k, which overall I am very happy with and is about the going price. I'm going to use it as my everyday car and probably clock up around 6000-8000 miles on it a year and will enjoy it all year round. In 5 years time for example I may of clocked up 30k miles by which time it will have 75k on, but if I decided to sell would probably get around 8-9k for it anyway, so hardly lose anything in five years with everyday use.

However Z4M coupes with a similar mileage go for approximately double the amount 20-25k and my question is the huge differential worth it ? The price difference between the Z4 and Z$M Coupe is more than the list price difference when they were new -You could buy 2 Z4 coupes for the price of a Z4M, so is it worth double, is it that much better? Even when new the reviews for the Z4 coupe made you question at the time if the Z4M coupe was worth the price difference?

http://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/z4/6440/bmw-z4-30si-coupe-review-price-specs-and-0-60-time
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/z4/16547/bmw-z4-coupe

From what I can see most Z4M buyers, purchase the car then use it as a second car, or weekends and summers only. As if they start clocking up the miles on it then it drops quickly in value. So though they might like to use it more, it will cost them dear.

So have z4 coupe owners got the best of both worlds, a low entry price which they can use every day and have 90% of what the Z4M Coupe offers and even with every day use the cost of ownership regards depreciation is minimal, so is the Z4 3.0 Coupe the hidden gem?
 
Is a Cayman GT4 worth 4x as much as a Z4MC? No. Would I buy one if I could afford it? Yes.

Forget that it costs double - if you could pay an additional £10k to own a car that is genuinely one of the most memorable you can drive (and live with!) under £50k, would you do that?

I would say the engine alone is worth the price (plus +50% increase in running costs) over the non-M, but don't think too hard about it if you haven't driven one (or an E46 M3), otherwise you'll just go mad reading lots of opinions like this one. :)
 
Drive them, you will soon figure it out.

I test drove a 3.0si an an M back to back. Bought the M.

On the road the 3.0SI is 90% the car, its very rare an M will pull away from one on the Z meets. For me its all the M extras the SI doesn't have. twin exhaust, hydraulic steering and of course the S54 it doesn't get much better than the Z4M in the BMW world the new ones just have no soul in comparison.

At the end of the day 10k isnt a huge amount more to be in the exclusive club, very rare in the modern car world to have an opportunity to buy such a low volume car for so little.

In 10-15 years I can see them launching through the stratosphere for good non modified cars.

Doug Demuro just did a video explaining just that but the M cars he speaks of were in huge volumes in comparison to the Z4Ms.

[youtube]K8h-hZouHZk[/youtube]

Prices seem stable atm and the 'rush' has sort of slowed and it seems it is becoming less the car of the moment. Higher milage cars are still 18+ but 45-50k cars at 21-22 seem like pretty good value atm.

It is depressing I bought my 2 owner car in 2011 for 17.5 with 46k. That was 6 years ago and similar cars are reaching 23-25k which bucks the trend but isnt going to break the bank is it... only one direction with good cars even higher mileage ones that are unmodified will still be very desirable because of the rarity factor.

3.0si will never have that desire but the fact its the next best thing keeps the prices high. The fact you can get a 3.5i E89 which is newer better tech etc etc for about the same price speaks volumes of the popularity of the pair.

The fact most modern day M cars are a bit dull, electronic and too fast to enjoy makes the mid 2000s cars attractive. They arent overly complicated or fast compared to the newer generation but they are more than you would ever need and the main thing is they are really great to drive. The sound, noise and feel... cant buy that anymore.

I feel sorry for our kids generation of petrol heads that they wont live through a generation like that.
 
VRSteve.... I disagree.

I have been debating this for a while

I currently have both a Z4C and a Z4MC.

The Si is great fun, Superb engine, sounds great fairly fast can do an easy 35mpg, cheap tax, Great as an everyday driver, better balanced than the M, Love mine!

The trouble with the M is... it comes alive when you are getting into licence loosing territory, My M is a weekend toy, for me its a bit to raw to use as a daily driver.

Adam
 
tomscott said:
At the end of the day 10k isnt a huge amount more to be in the exclusive club, very rare in the modern car world to have an opportunity to buy such a low volume car for so little.
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Point here though is 10K is twice the price of an non ///M which is the OP's point. It's not 25% more like on the new price, it's 100% more.
 
- The steering in the Si is rubbish, I'm always wishing it was hydraulic.

- The N52 engine is good at what it does, it likes to rev without feeling breathless at the top like the M54 did. However, you then run out of revs just when it's getting good where an M would carry on.

- I daily mine doing 20kpa and it's a very cheap car to run on the whole. I could now afford to daily an M and I think it would be worth it.

- I have comparable performance otherwise as I've upgraded the suspension to B12, changed various bushes, upgraded ARBs and a Quaife LSD. I've never had problems with not having enough braking power on the road and I don't track it.

- Both cars have the same interior (save for the dash trim) and so they are both a little noisy for me on the motorway.

I've considered an M but I don't think it will offer enough of a change and I'm leaning towards something else entirely. I wish I had an M from day one but couldn't afford it previously. To be frank the only reason you wouldn't daily the M is if you can't afford it or you're a garage queen.
 
I have the 3.0si and use it as a daily...all I know is that if I could afford an ///M - I would have the ///M.
 
srhutch said:
tomscott said:
At the end of the day 10k isnt a huge amount more to be in the exclusive club, very rare in the modern car world to have an opportunity to buy such a low volume car for so little.
Click to expand...

Point here though is 10K is twice the price of an non ///M which is the OP's point. It's not 25% more like on the new price, it's 100% more.
Click to expand...

I suppose as a product gets older it takes on its own meaning that possibly didn't fit under a £ structure.

These cars were bespoke hand built M cars that were a special M project with limited production numbers, as the product gets older becomes rarer because of write offs and it takes on a new need for people that probably wouldn't have been a target customer. People buy them for collections they drop off the map for years and therefore even less are available to the enthusiast.

You also have the poster car syndrome. When I was in secondary school I had one as my desktop display until I bought one 5-6 years later now more people have grown older and have more available cash it means again they are more sought after.

I think its a difficult one and there isnt really a metric. The difference with the 3.0 is that it has the body but essentially is a Z4 although rarer than a 3 series its probably seen in a similar boat.

Look at muscle cars they were the working mans supercar now they sell up to £500,000 because they are the zeitgeist of an era that a huge amount of people enjoy.

If someone said to you 20 years ago an E30 M3 would sell for £100,000 you would have laughed at them. E30 325s arent £50,000 so really although yes a 3.0L is 100% more we are still talking a relative small amount of money.
 
I have an Si which I think is brilliant but ..,

I'd consider an M most definitely ...,

But in terms of rarity and values where does that leave the Alpina ?

Having followed both an M and an Alpina on the National meet I was seriously impressed with the Alpina . And is there about 200 rhd cars ?
 
Steve84N said:
To be frank the only reason you wouldn't daily the M is if you can't afford it or you're a garage queen.
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I disagree, I wouldn't daily an M because they suck as a daily compared to pretty much any other daily hack you could buy. Theres a difference between affordability and using one for the sake of it. The sus is hard as nails, the steering is too heavy and the gearbox is so notchy city driving/motorway traffic is a nightmare and they are very loud in the cabin which is tiring if you are driving a lot.

IMO they belong on the country lane / b road and are ok for the odd motorway journey. Otherwise I would take anything else as a daily.

I used to be a country bumpkin living out in the sticks in Cumbria and ran the M and a mini cooper S. My commute was minimal but I still put 15k on my M in 3 years as a second car and about 20k on the mini because I enjoyed driving it.

Ive now moved to Manchester and commute doing around 16k per year in a diesel it does about 80mpg no road tax and is comfy and has all the modern luxuries. The thought of being stuck in traffic on the M60 for 2 hours a day in nose to tail traffic is not something I would like to do in an M.

Yes you could do it but the 'only' reason you wouldn't daily it being money or its a garage queen is a bit of a stupid statement IMO.
 
I have owned 2 M's from new and my second one was an MC. I used this for my daily covering over 60k in the 4 years... Great car, easy to drive and ride is easy to live with. Plus you when you find the right road you will have a Ball! The M always feels special...
 
tomscott said:
Steve84N said:
To be frank the only reason you wouldn't daily the M is if you can't afford it or you're a garage queen.
Click to expand...

I disagree, I wouldn't daily an M because they suck as a daily compared to pretty much any other daily hack you could buy. Theres a difference between affordability and using one for the sake of it. The sus is hard as nails, the steering is too heavy and the gearbox is so notchy city driving/motorway traffic is a nightmare and they are very loud in the cabin which is tiring if you are driving a lot.

IMO they belong on the country lane / b road and are ok for the odd motorway journey. Otherwise I would take anything else as a daily.

I used to be a country bumpkin living out in the sticks in Cumbria and ran the M and a mini cooper S. My commute was minimal but I still put 15k on my M in 3 years as a second car and about 20k on the mini because I enjoyed driving it.

Ive now moved to Manchester and commute doing around 16k per year in a diesel it does about 80mpg no road tax and is comfy and has all the modern luxuries. The thought of being stuck in traffic on the M60 for 2 hours a day in nose to tail traffic is not something I would like to do in an M.

Yes you could do it but the 'only' reason you wouldn't daily it being money or its a garage queen is a bit of a stupid statement IMO.
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Only being able to afford one car, this is why I will be sticking with the Si - it does the commute no problem and then turns into a flat out sports car at weekends :driving:
 
haha that put the cat amongst the pigeons. :)

I could of bought either to be honest, however as I was going to use it every day, it did nt make sense even though its a fab car, for 50% of the price of an ZMC I get 90% of the experience which is pretty good in my eyes. Performance to 60 is just .5 second difference, (I could nt really use the extra performance anyhow on a public road), its got virtually the same looks, interior etc too. I'm self employed and do IT support and every day I get to drive my car through the Pennines etc and its fab and I don't have to have a heavy right foot to enjoy it the overall experience makes it. Plus low running costs, insurance etc and putting the miles on it does nt really devalue it. If it cost me 2-3k for five years use and 30k miles in my eyes that's a bargain at £600 a year depreciation.

After reading the car reviews etc from experienced test drivers , the overall opinion was they questioned it too. Here's a third review, look at the verdict from Car magazine.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/bmw/bmw-z4-m-coupe-2006-review/

"A TVR for people who haven't got time to spend hanging around hard shoulders, the £41,285 M coupe looks, and sounds spectacular. But the 3.0Si isn't much slower, drops as many jaws and costs £8K less. I'm afraid this time the M model isn't the default choice. "

So IMHO the 3.0 gives me all I want and at a bargain price, its a win win
 
tomscott said:
Steve84N said:
To be frank the only reason you wouldn't daily the M is if you can't afford it or you're a garage queen.
Click to expand...

I disagree, I wouldn't daily an M because they suck as a daily compared to pretty much any other daily hack you could buy. Theres a difference between affordability and using one for the sake of it. The sus is hard as nails, the steering is too heavy and the gearbox is so notchy city driving/motorway traffic is a nightmare and they are very loud in the cabin which is tiring if you are driving a lot.

IMO they belong on the country lane / b road and are ok for the odd motorway journey. Otherwise I would take anything else as a daily.

I used to be a country bumpkin living out in the sticks in Cumbria and ran the M and a mini cooper S. My commute was minimal but I still put 15k on my M in 3 years as a second car and about 20k on the mini because I enjoyed driving it.

Ive now moved to Manchester and commute doing around 16k per year in a diesel it does about 80mpg no road tax and is comfy and has all the modern luxuries. The thought of being stuck in traffic on the M60 for 2 hours a day in nose to tail traffic is not something I would like to do in an M.

Yes you could do it but the 'only' reason you wouldn't daily it being money or its a garage queen is a bit of a stupid statement IMO.
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On reflection I agree with you to a degree. One of the reasons I'm looking at changing is refinement as I find it harder and harder to get space to push the car so more often than not a nicer interior etc is going to give more enjoyment. That said if I couldn't run two cars I'd be happy to daily an M.
 
CraigP said:
haha that put the cat amongst the pigeons. :)

I could of bought either to be honest, however as I was going to use it every day, it did nt make sense even though its a fab car, for 50% of the price of an ZMC I get 90% of the experience which is pretty good in my eyes. Performance to 60 is just .5 second difference, (I could nt really use the extra performance anyhow on a public road), its got virtually the same looks, interior etc too. I'm self employed and do IT support and every day I get to drive my car through the Pennines etc and its fab and I don't have to have a heavy right foot to enjoy it the overall experience makes it. Plus low running costs, insurance etc and putting the miles on it does nt really devalue it. If it cost me 2-3k for five years use and 30k miles in my eyes that's a bargain at £600 a year depreciation.

After reading the car reviews etc from experienced test drivers , the overall opinion was they questioned it too. Here's a third review, look at the verdict from Car magazine.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/bmw/bmw-z4-m-coupe-2006-review/

"A TVR for people who haven't got time to spend hanging around hard shoulders, the £41,285 M coupe looks, and sounds spectacular. But the 3.0Si isn't much slower, drops as many jaws and costs £8K less. I'm afraid this time the M model isn't the default choice. "

So IMHO the 3.0 gives me all I want and at a bargain price, its a win win
Click to expand...

The points you raise are pretty much why I bought an Si

Although mine isn't a daily, and is more of a garage queen I still had an eye on the running costs

Having run mine fairly hard against a couple of M's and an Alpina I have to say it wasn't disgraced in any way at all

I have a couple of friends that run Cayman 3.4s'

They have driven my Si back to back with the 3.4 Cayman and both came away full of praise for the Si stating they were amazed how good it was . And having the chance to drive theirs head to head I found the Cayman was having to work very hard to stay with the Si over the dales roads round here

Those caymans would be twice the price of my Si and certainly don't have twice the performance or any more refinement .. however they do come with some potential big bills in the closet

Interestingly when we were stopped in Hawes for a brew the Si got a fair bit of attention which suprised me
 
I think they're both great. You'll never know if the M is worth the extra unless you drive it. For me it's worth every penny extra. The S54 with my Eventuri is epic and the M has so much grip. At the end of the day the premium isn't about the differences between the two cars, it's a lot more to do with the fact that the Z4MC/Z4MR were the last two straight six normally aspirated M cars ever made. They will go down in history for that.
 
Ahh!!! Who said these threads will just drive you more insane ;)

Ok ive recently test driven a Z4C and Z4MC. My opinions

Z4MC

Clutch was unpleasant far more tricky and heavier than Si wouldn't want to be stuck in traffic with that one.
Running costs and servicing being an M
500 quid a year road tax ouch
Fabulous growl
Looks the rear of that M with the twin boxes
Doesnt get going till 4k+ but the sound is rewarding
Good future investment, 5 years plus will start to see gains

Z4C

Clutch much easier
Cheaper running costs and road tax
Performance just about ok
Steering?
Doesn't look as good as M
Future investment rise possibly longer term 5-10years
Looks fantstic but not as mean parked next to a Z4MC


I have only driven both for a short time with the view to buy so of course i couldn't really explore fully.

I am still cut between the 2 no make that 3, the Z4MR! You can get nearly all of the Z4MC car and potentially a bit more speed see various Youtube vids showing the Z4MR outdragging the Z4MC and the joy of all that noise with the roof down and for about 7k less for similar miles.
I agree the Coupe is stunning in appearance, but the Z4M roadster in the right colours and wheels with the roof down isn't some girly hairdresser mobile, not with those wheels, those pipes out the back and 338 horses.
 
All been written before , no doubt be written again :oops:
Ms are good , very very good which gives the Si a massive hurdle to get over , ive been flipping between my ///Mroady & 3.0sI roady the last 3-4 weeks :wink: if you drive one for a while you get used to it but if compared more directly the differences are more noticeable .
Si brakes nowhere near as good as M ones but they aren't meant to be .
Steering / sure to divide here but the eps on Sis are a dream to drive after wrestling the M car , , sure when i'm out on a run there is no finer set up than the M steering but drop back into town driving & id take the Si steering every time :o yep , its so so easy if detaching .
Torque / Si pulls fine when worked but the S54 just is the one & only
Clutch & gearbox / Same as the steering , if out on a decent free road drive then the M will wow anyone but hit the town & give me that Si box + clutch :P
Suspension / here's where the M really wins out , very very flattering of average drivers ( like myself ) & knocks the Msport set up on Si.s off the park
Spec / like for like
Prices / old ground i know but as Si gets even cheaper £6k-£9k 80k-90k cars the gulf seems so much wider to find double for the M versions .
 
Steve84N said:
- To be frank the only reason you wouldn't daily the M is if you can't afford it or you're a garage queen.
Click to expand...

Not so, my ///MR does far more miles in a year than my daily driver Mazda 6 Sport. The daily cost me £800 2 years ago, as no body wants big gas guzzeling cars any more. It's a fine car. I treat it like a mule, it gets hammered, it's not loved, but it only does the commute and weekly tip runs. Probably around half the miles that I put on the ///MR, as I get out every opportunity I get and enjoy the Zed on the local Cornish back roads. :driving: :thumbsup:
 
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