Z4 Coupe to Z4M Coupe Questions?

P

patrickbateman

Member
I have a Z4 3.0si Coupe at the moment and I love it, after my son passed away last year it's the one of the only things that keeps me going, I have no dependants now and have been thinking about an upgrade, as far as I can see it theres nothing stopping me taking out a loan for something faster,
I've wanted a 911 since I was a kid and even though I cant afford my dream 964, a 997 is a possibilty, have been thinking about a BMW M3 v8 too,

The most sense out of them all is the Z4MC, I've a really good BMW specialist mechanic and I love the way the car looks,

So I have just a few questions, any feedback would be gratefully received, I'm nervous of making an expensive mistake!

Is the M version really noticably faster than the standard 3.0si?

did all the Z4MC's come with blacked out side and rear windows?
Is this removable?

What is a fair price range for a 50k to 90k car with full history?

Thanks for any help offered,
 
I'm sorry to hear about your son OP - that must be the most painful thing ever. :(

I also have no dependents, but spend a lot of time doing things for my 97 year old mother who isn't doing too well these days. :(

I've had two 3.0Si Sport Coupes in the last 5 years, and did look at an MC earlier this year as I was thinking along the same lines as you. :lol:

The MC I looked at didn't have blacked out "rear" windows - they may have been a BMW option, but were more likely an after-market option.

Anyway while on paper 0-62 in 5.7 seconds or 4.9 doesn't sound much different, it really is!

But more importantly an M just sounds so special, has hydraulic PAS and non run-flat tyres - an M is just so special. The engine is fantastic, ride quality and steering feel is so much better!

Just be careful if you start looking - Ms don't have hydraulic valve actuators so need valve clearances checked every "Insp" service with a report on clearances, and you really want to see the report of the clearances even if only to be sure they were actually measured.

There is also a school of thought that at around 100K miles an M needs new crank rod bearing shells which is always going to cost £1K +. :o

As for values, bearing in mind that less than 800 MCs were registered in the UK it really depends on how the car has been looked after and the history of the car.

Happy hunting. :thumbup:
 
The ///M is more than just a different engine. The driving experience with heavier steering, clutch and better brakes for starters.

Service history is important, and from a reputable bmw Indy or main dealer. A shim report really means nothing though as they could just hand a copy out with every service, or just write down what they think you want to see. Like all servicing you either have to watch them do the lot or trust they have done it.

Best thing to do is go and drive one. Just be prepared not to want to hand the keys back.
 
As others have said, the M is more than just the sum of it parts.

I've recently gone from a 3.0si E85 to an M E86 and the M is so much more of an event, it's a lot more involving. The only real way to convey this is to go for a drive in one!
 
Hhmmm , tough choices ahead but equally that can be seen as part of the pleasure taking the next step .
First off no the ZMC will probably not feel that much quicker unless you are on the ragged edge of the road & your capabilities but you should instantly feel the differences already mentioned above , you should be prepared though that they aren't as civilised as the Si , you have to wrestle the car & not be afraid to get the revs well up to know what the S54 offers .
The ZMs are great cars to own if you look past the VED , mpg & service costs over the Si but right now would appear a great time to buy in .
prices / miles a ZMC well kept private 70k car should be around £17k , perfect example here https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=118041
Up the miles to 80k then drop the money to £16k , drop the miles to 60k up the spend to £18k ( ballpark numbers)
Now all that said your other 2 mentioned options should also be tried out to compare :driving: then you will pass on the M3 & buy a 997 :oops:
 
I looked at and test drove a 3.0si Coupe before buying my Z4MC purely because I loved the look of the car - to be honest I was underwhelmed and never went through with the purchase and at that point I wasn't aware of the ///M version.

Through this forum and YouTube I then improved my education of the ///M and ended up buying one unseen and without having driven one before - suffice to say my first drive was an event which is a good term to describe it as used above.

More than 12 months on and that is still the case and I will use any excuse to get out in the car and I am still convinced that there is no better looking and performing alternative for anywhere close to the money.

Do it you won't regret it - the only story's I can find are ones where people have sold their ///M and regret it in the long-term.
 
Thanks for the replies and for the condolences,

Z4M seems like a no-brainer now, I love how my current Z looks and drives but wish it was just a little more highly strung,

I think I've made my decision, there may be a 997 at some point but the one I want is £40k and a bit of a stretch,
Servicing worries me a bit too,

The mechanic I have at the moment (Newhall BMW Specialists) is excellent, he actually advised me against the 997 due to the bore-scoring issue, and he pushed me towards a Z4M!

A forum member messaged me tonight with a heads up about a Carbon Black car for sale on here earlier in the year,

https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=114001

This one,
I've sent the seller a message about it so fingers crossed,


Thanks again for everyones advice and replies, sure, it's no supercar but this little Z4 still manages to distract me, and even half a smile on occasion,

Joe.
 
Just go for it, Joe!

I had a test drive in an M Coupe yesterday on behalf of a forum member, and now I just want one (again). :laugh:

And what do you classify as a supercar anyway? 0 to 62mph in less than 5 seconds seems pretty quick to me!
 
Mr Tidy said:
And what do you classify as a supercar anyway? 0 to 62mph in less than 5 seconds seems pretty quick to me!
Click to expand...

I've never understood some of the criticisms I've read about the Z4M accelerative performance. I don't know whether mine is particularly healthy but it always feels rapid to me, it comfortably had the legs on my friends 996 C4s. The new 4 wheel drive stuff would probably pull away from a stand still (if traffic light races are your thing!) but once rolling I reckon it would hold it's own against a lot of modern cars.

OP, I'm very sorry for your loss, best wishes.
 
patrickbateman said:
I think I've made my decision, there may be a 997 at some point but the one I want is £40k and a bit of a stretch,
Servicing worries me a bit too,
The mechanic I have at the moment (Newhall BMW Specialists) is excellent, he actually advised me against the 997 due to the bore-scoring issue, and he pushed me towards a Z4M!
Click to expand...

& that's why he's a BMW specialist :oops: don't suppose he mentioned the potential borscoring on S54 :wink:

if they do want to give advice out on other cars they should at least know what they are on about :roll: your £40k would be well into gen 2 territory & borescore only affects the earlier gen 1 997 from 2004-2008 . gen 2 cars from 09 onwards start around £30k & are not affected by any routine known failings other than HPFP (£1200 replacement )
Gen 1 cars can have a borescore inspection to know if the issue is present (£300) & from that point if the engine is good there is no reason why it would suddenly be blighted . the 3.8S variant is known to score more easily than the 3.6 & the tiptronics are also known to increase chance of borescore due to them pulling away in 2nd gear
Other issues like IMS were sorted from 55 plate onwards so its more than do able right now to buy into a decent Carrera2/2s for around £20k that won't bust the bank to enjoy .
Servicing & parts are no dearer (possibly cheaper) than the ZM
Hope the right ZMC comes along for you & i have no doubts at all you will enjoy the experience but should you decide to make the switch at some point in the future to a 997 hope the above is of some help :thumbsup:
 
The power differences between the 3.0Si and the M are only really felt above 5000rpm, the penalty you pay for that is the M engine is a little less refined, especially when cold... and there are a few more maintenance worries with the S54. As others have said though, the driving experience feels significantly more different than the parts list would suggest.

It's not a perfect comparison but I regularly drive the S54 (in E46 M3 guise) and 3.0Si back to back and find it almost impossible to pick a favourite powertrain. The M3 ride and handling is leagues ahead but as it's a different chassis it's not comparing apples with apples. I love the top end urgency of the S54 but prefer the low down response of the N52. The N52 is considerably more fuel efficient too if you care about that.

You are going to have to drive both cars in close succession to make any kind of objective assessment. Overall for me the 3.0Si was just the slightly better ownership proposition.
 
Slightly cringeworthy to re-read now, but these were my thoughts when I made the switch: https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=81552

The 3.0si coupe is arguably the best car in the range, on paper, but the ///M is definitely more “highly strung”, if that’s what you’re after. The main issue I find now is that the engine and looks set such a high bar that you spend all of your time (and cash!) working on bringing the rest of the car up to scratch. If it had better suspension/calibration and was a little lighter from the factory I’m sure a lot of us wouldn’t have ever been able to afford one.
 
mr wilks said:
patrickbateman said:
I think I've made my decision, there may be a 997 at some point but the one I want is £40k and a bit of a stretch,
Servicing worries me a bit too,
The mechanic I have at the moment (Newhall BMW Specialists) is excellent, he actually advised me against the 997 due to the bore-scoring issue, and he pushed me towards a Z4M!
Click to expand...

& that's why he's a BMW specialist :oops: don't suppose he mentioned the potential borscoring on S54 :wink:

if they do want to give advice out on other cars they should at least know what they are on about :roll: your £40k would be well into gen 2 territory & borescore only affects the earlier gen 1 997 from 2004-2008 . gen 2 cars from 09 onwards start around £30k & are not affected by any routine known failings other than HPFP (£1200 replacement )
Gen 1 cars can have a borescore inspection to know if the issue is present (£300) & from that point if the engine is good there is no reason why it would suddenly be blighted . the 3.8S variant is known to score more easily than the 3.6 & the tiptronics are also known to increase chance of borescore due to them pulling away in 2nd gear
Other issues like IMS were sorted from 55 plate onwards so its more than do able right now to buy into a decent Carrera2/2s for around £20k that won't bust the bank to enjoy .
Servicing & parts are no dearer (possibly cheaper) than the ZM
Hope the right ZMC comes along for you & i have no doubts at all you will enjoy the experience but should you decide to make the switch at some point in the future to a 997 hope the above is of some help :thumbsup:
Click to expand...


Excellent advice, loads of stuff I wasn't aware of, pretty sure it was you that helped me sort out my wheel fitment last year too! so double thanks.]
 
Bought mine knowing the MC’’s competent but not the fastest nor best handling car on the planet, but for more emotive reasons...

- the very last M car of what’s becoming the nostalgic benchmark, manual, a Coupe & normally aspirated
- its Bangles flame surface shape
- the raw & ragged way it involves you every time you drive
- its sound
- benefit of a LSD even if a bit intrusive
- its reliability (when looked after & compared to similar marque bhp output cars)
- the minimalistic though highly focused driver layout interior which in leather still looks fresh today
- its increasing rarity
- my wife hates it so ....
- thinking if Steve McQueen were alive today, he’d probably have one in his garage
 
Sounds like you deserve some special fun back in your life. Go for it, the ///M is so much more of an event to drive that the standard cars, great though they are. :driving: :thumbsup:

For sure it will cost a bit more to run than your 3ltr, but way less that a on old porker. As for the V8 M3. Nah just a nice fast 3 series. :wink:
 
ph001 said:
The power differences between the 3.0Si and the M are only really felt above 5000rpm, the penalty you pay for that is the M engine is a little less refined, especially when cold... and there are a few more maintenance worries with the S54. As others have said though, the driving experience feels significantly more different than the parts list would suggest.

It's not a perfect comparison but I regularly drive the S54 (in E46 M3 guise) and 3.0Si back to back and find it almost impossible to pick a favourite powertrain. The M3 ride and handling is leagues ahead but as it's a different chassis it's not comparing apples with apples. I love the top end urgency of the S54 but prefer the low down response of the N52. The N52 is considerably more fuel efficient too if you care about that.

You are going to have to drive both cars in close succession to make any kind of objective assessment. Overall for me the 3.0Si was just the slightly better ownership proposition.
Click to expand...

That's interesting, but after my drive in an MC on Tuesday to me it felt more keen to get moving well before 5,000 rpm. But then I only drove it 12 miles, but with no salesperson accompanying me it meant once warmed up I was able to "stretch it's legs"! Then I drove a long route home in my 3.0Si for a comparison.

As you say the driving experience is definitely more different than the parts list suggests - much better steering feel, no tramlining, less crashy ride.

I know the E46 M3 has the same S54 engine, but you're still sitting in an E46. My daily is an E90 330i so has the same engine as my Z4C, but just doesn't feel nearly as special.

Based on this my 2nd test drive of an MC I'd love to have one, but as I only do about 4,000 miles a year in my Z4 it would seem to make more sense to buy a low miler and at present that is sadly not in budget.

Maybe I retired too early? :rolleyes:
 
Mr Tidy said:
ph001 said:
The power differences between the 3.0Si and the M are only really felt above 5000rpm, the penalty you pay for that is the M engine is a little less refined, especially when cold... and there are a few more maintenance worries with the S54. As others have said though, the driving experience feels significantly more different than the parts list would suggest.

It's not a perfect comparison but I regularly drive the S54 (in E46 M3 guise) and 3.0Si back to back and find it almost impossible to pick a favourite powertrain. The M3 ride and handling is leagues ahead but as it's a different chassis it's not comparing apples with apples. I love the top end urgency of the S54 but prefer the low down response of the N52. The N52 is considerably more fuel efficient too if you care about that.


You are going to have to drive both cars in close succession to make any kind of objective assessment. Overall for me the 3.0Si was just the slightly better ownership proposition.
Click to expand...

That's interesting, but after my drive in an MC on Tuesday to me it felt more keen to get moving well before 5,000 rpm. But then I only drove it 12 miles, but with no salesperson accompanying me it meant once warmed up I was able to "stretch it's legs"! Then I drove a long route home in my 3.0Si for a comparison.

As you say the driving experience is definitely more different than the parts list suggests - much better steering feel, no tramlining, less crashy ride.

I know the E46 M3 has the same S54 engine, but you're still sitting in an E46. My daily is an E90 330i so has the same engine as my Z4C, but just doesn't feel nearly as special.

Based on this my 2nd test drive of an MC I'd love to have one, but as I only do about 4,000 miles a year in my Z4 it would seem to make more sense to buy a low miler and at present that is sadly not in budget.

Maybe I retired too early? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
The second noticeable cam change on the vanos in the S54 is at 4.5k. If I'm pushing on in mine I keep it up above that all the time and it keeps many a super car honest. Bare in mind it,s a chunk lighter than an M3.

Low down torque is fun for a few seconds here and there on the daily commute. But once you open up the taps properly revs and hp are so much more fun. Also why I am a very long way from buying an electric sports car. It's about how much they make you smile. :D :driving: :thumbsup:
 
I've had my E85 M for a year now and it's really impressed me with just how in sync/balanced it feels with the calibration. The throttle response, the weight of the steering, the sound, but most importantly it's a real Jekyll and Hyde car. It can happily cruise on the motorway or potter about running errand, but as soon as I take it out on some B roads, it just comes alive and is so much fun to drive. My car still feels tight and put together really well, even with me just going past 100,000 miles a few months ago.

Like others have said, the S54 really has to be revved to get that extra power over the N54, but my god it really sings. But the downside it jut how brutal some of the running costs are. just had to renew my tax for a year and it hurt! At least my insurance has gone down £300 this year, but still higher than my modified Impreza P1 use to cost me. Only car I would replace my M Roadster with, would be the M Coupe if I was in the position to do so.
 
Mr Tidy said:
That's interesting, but after my drive in an MC on Tuesday to me it felt more keen to get moving well before 5,000 rpm.
Click to expand...

Assuming similar gearing, the 'seat of the pants' acceleration force comes down to the torque to weight ratio. I did a few stats on this in another thread which showed very interesting results:

Peak torque to weight ratio (higher is better)

3.0Si - 0.181 lbft/kg
Z4M - 0.186 lbft/kg
E46 M3 - 0.167 lbft/kg

You can see how close the N52 and S54 are. But perhaps also as important is at what rpm peak torque is:

S54 - 4900 rpm
N52 - 2750 rpm

What really stands out here is how low down in the rev range the N52 makes peak torque, in fact that is truly exceptional for a normally aspirated engine and I doubt there is another na engine in the world that makes peak torque so low down. Looking specifically at that point in the rev range:

S54 @ 2750rpm = 220lbft / 115bhp
N52 @ 2750rpm = 232lbft / 121bhp

...but also remember that M is at least 50Kg heavier and the difference becomes even more pronounced - the N52 is the clear winner.

As mentioned above, all the S54 gains are after the second vanos changeover point around 4500rpm. Fundamentally it only really makes more power because it revs higher, but I agree it's all the more exciting for it!
 
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