Your experiences of aftermarket suspension on the Z4 MC

Beedub said:
this is a bmw motorsport part :-) these things are run with proper slick tyres are are putting way more stress than my road tyres/slicks can ever muster.... its a non issue ;-) the contact patch is more than adequate, to see them installed with them wheel on, you'd understand what i mean!...

also due to the added stress im placing on my car with much more power and cornering ability in terms of outright grip in run alittle more Tq on the wheel nuts, studs, this setup has huge advantages but like i said, is very very expensive.
If they're super pricey, then I'm sure that your partly paying for the the maths behind them.

Go on; how much did you pay? :poke:
 
exdos said:
Beedub said:
this is a bmw motorsport part :-) these things are run with proper slick tyres are are putting way more stress than my road tyres/slicks can ever muster.... its a non issue ;-) the contact patch is more than adequate, to see them installed with them wheel on, you'd understand what i mean!...

also due to the added stress im placing on my car with much more power and cornering ability in terms of outright grip in run alittle more Tq on the wheel nuts, studs, this setup has huge advantages but like i said, is very very expensive.
If they're super pricey, then I'm sure that your partly paying for the the maths behind them.

Go on; how much did you pay? :poke:

Will pm price.
 
Beedub said:
Will pm price.
Bee,

It sounds like one of those incredibly expensive purchases that we all make that should remain personal to you. So please keep it that way. :thumbsup:

For my part, I shall be looking to fit something like the H&R spacers which cost around £65 per pair, but I am prepared to pay less! :wink:
 
SweetRide said:
The 5mm spacers are $79.99 from Verstraβe. What's the big deal?

i wish they were!!! The ups shipping was double that, throw in some nice customs charges.... and it made these stupid prices, combined with the stubs n kics nuts, the customs charge was easily $450+ alone..... when not factored in, its what i class are stupidly expensive, even more so when you have to pay it on your doorstep!! might be cheap yourside but certainly not UK bound.
 
I don't see a performance advantage over a pair of £65 H&R's (esp not for the extra $350). Pool your mods and fly Stateside to grab them. Your trip would almost be covered.
 
SweetRide said:
I don't see a performance advantage over a pair of £65 H&R's (esp not for the extra $350). Pool your mods and fly Stateside to grab them. Your trip would almost be covered.

I guess I just wanted the lightest available, after having a set of eibach units the weight difference was huge... Most of my items come from the USA, because for the z4m at least this is where the best products are. By the time I get these items over to me, shipping, customs ect often make an expensive item, silly money.

I nearly choked when I had to pay for my superchargers customs charges.

Not looking forward to receiving my Dkf exhaust :-( that's going to sting.
 
I'd be interested to hear what customs charges you're encountering.
Import duty is payable on goods + shipping and shouldn't be any more than around 5% for car parts, then bat at 20% on top of that again. If you're being charged $400 import duty, someone at parcelforce is pressing the wron buttons.
 
Voodoo said:
I'd be interested to hear what customs charges you're encountering.
Import duty is payable on goods + shipping and shouldn't be any more than around 5% for car parts, then bat at 20% on top of that again. If you're being charged $400 import duty, someone at parcelforce is pressing the wron buttons.

isnt it on weight and item value?? ive had some real hefty customs charges.... obviously the real biggy was the ess kit which was like 1000 pound alone import charge if i remember correctly, add in the actual shipping costs and i cringe at that transaction, i always ask the sellers to "lower" the value of items but most refuse to do that :-(

i was say a large chunk of money spent on my car has been lost to customs, like i said sadly the best parts for these cars are stateside imo.
 
Beedub said:
i was say a large chunk of money spent on my car has been lost to customs, like i said sadly the best parts for these cars are stateside imo.

Like you, I've bought quite a lot of bits and pieces from the US, although nowhere near the value of parts you've bought. But even the cost of little bits, like bushings and brackets etc. become multiplied by the freight charges (US Postal charges are ridiculous!) then you've got import duties PLUS "Handling charge" at UK customs. This all adds up and I now think more than twice when considering buying stuff from the US, but it's easier dealing with the Americans because they share English (just!) which makes communication easier than dealing with our European neighbours. I am a big fan of American stuff because they make it well.
 
exdos said:
Beedub said:
i was say a large chunk of money spent on my car has been lost to customs, like i said sadly the best parts for these cars are stateside imo.

Like you, I've bought quite a lot of bits and pieces from the US, although nowhere near the value of parts you've bought. But even the cost of little bits, like bushings and brackets etc. become multiplied by the freight charges (US Postal charges are ridiculous!) then you've got import duties PLUS "Handling charge" at UK customs. This all adds up and I now think more than twice when considering buying stuff from the US, but it's easier dealing with the Americans because they share English (just!) which makes communication easier than dealing with our European neighbours. I am a big fan of American stuff because they make it well.

Absolutely agree with what you say with costs of getting cheap things over is expensive, getting heavy expensive items over is board line pointless.
 
UPDATE

So far, I've fitted the AC Schnitzer Racing suspension, a StrongStrut front strutbrace and 10mm spacers all round, and found what I consider to be the near-optimum damper settings for fast road use. IMO, I consider it much harder to find the optimum "fast-road" settings rather than "track" settings because the quality of our road surfaces varies so much, from track-like motorways and dual carriageways, to pot-holed, undulating, heavily-cambered minor roads with all grades between. Likewise, when lowering the car it is important to ensure that the car retains sufficient ground clearance so that you can go anywhere without forever worrying about doing damage to the car if it's too low. Fortunately, I've been through the suspension upgrade experience with my Z3MC, so with the suspension upgrade to the Z4MC, I've known precisely what I want to achieve from the outset and that it is actually attainable, and that I know what hardware changes I need and what adjustments to make to achieve my goal.

I've learned that with adjustable suspension, it's better to have the dampers set slightly too soft rather than slightly too firm so that the car will handle and ride well on the worst of roads that I drive on and not on just 90% of them and one of my two major criticisms of the OEM suspension is that the rear suspension is just too firm, which makes the car a bad ride/handling on at least 20% of the roads that I drive on. I believed that over the past few weeks since I installed the ACS suspension, from test driving, I'd found my optimum damper settings with the right front/rear balance which should account for 100% of road surfaces.

When I bought the car four months ago, the OEM geometry of the car showed toe-in on both front and rear axles and more negative camber on the rear axle than at the front. Lowering a car increase negative camber and toe-in, so this needed to be corrected. Also, with stiffer front springs than OEM, lateral bodyroll is somewhat reduced, so the need for large camber and toe angles is reduced because the dynamic geometry remains closer to the static settings. Adjusting the geometry isn't rocket science if you know which parts you need to adjust but you do need to follow a careful method so that you retain a 0 thrust angle to keep the car driving straight and true, and that you properly measure the changes you make. I've now set up the car with 0 degs toe all round, -1.3 degs camber at the front and < -1 degs camber at the rear. The car is 10mm lower at the rear and 15mm lower at the front.

I took the Z4MC to the Zedfest at the Silverstone Classic event yesterday and this was an ideal opportunity for me to assess my suspension upgrades because my route was a 70 mile trans-Cotswold route on the twisties (140 miles in all), on dry roads. I have to say that the ride is now absolutely perfect for me: I had absolutely no uncomfortableness whilst driving, nor any post-driving stiffness at all, as I did when I made the same journey 2 months ago. This means that I have the rear damper setting just right. :D

The second major problem that I have with the OEM suspension is that the front end was too soft which caused lifting on acceleration which made the steering imprecise and floaty, with pitching under braking leading to understeer. Yesterday, I had ample opportunity to test the front end with lots of overtaking which means crossing the camber of the road twice when completing an overtaking manoeuvre: I found that the front end lifting/pitching was minimal, which made the steering very precise, even accelerating hard on bumpy and undulating surfaces on relatively narrow roads. I think that I might be able to slightly stiffen the front damper settings if I were to stop with the upgrades at this point, but I have an H&R 30mm ARB to fit, which will probably do the trick, so I'll refrain from making any further adjustments until that is fitted. I also have a TMS limiter kit to fit on the rear trailing arm brackets, which I expect will also make the good even better.

I have always been amazed at how most other Z4MC owners can tolerate the OEM suspension because it is truly awful. I have experience of KWV3 (with a front coilover damper akin to Clubsport) on my Z3MC and now the AC Schnitzer Racing suspension on my Z4MC and I can highly recommend both suspensions to anyone. For me, upgrading the suspension to a decent adjustable set-up is far and away the best money of all that you can spend on your car. Setting up adjustable suspension is NOT a black art, it's just a logical sequence to follow and if you are happy to change your brake discs and pads yourself, then I consider changing the suspension and setting it up yourself is at the same level of difficulty although it might take a bit longer to do.

The ACS Racing suspension is much easier to adjust than the KWV3 but if you do want to go on track, it is well worth making adjustments from "fast-road" settings to pretty stiff track settings, because this really improves the handling some more on smooth surfaced tracks. IMO with adjustable suspension you can have the best of both worlds rather than have to suffer a "one size fits all" compromise.
 
hi john thanks for that update.... i will do a detailed post and pics on my setup shortly which is the complete other end of the spectrum and is pretty much a race application.....
3 way clubsport competition KW, BTW the adjusters are now proper knobs with numbers ect ect kw quality is imo amongst the best. My car has a very different direction to yours BUT maybe when your over you can pop in and give me some pointers in terms of high speed / low speed compression / rebound.... you can get these clubsport items to be pretty compliant on the road, but their only so much compliance with race linear springs.

KW.jpg

kw_clubsport_m3_7.jpg


image stolen to show new style adjusters
 
Beedub said:
hi john thanks for that update.... i will do a detailed post and pics on my setup shortly which is the complete other end of the spectrum and is pretty much a race application.....
3 way clubsport competition KW, BTW the adjusters are now proper knobs with numbers ect ect kw quality is imo amongst the best. My car has a very different direction to yours BUT maybe when your over you can pop in and give me some pointers in terms of high speed / low speed compression / rebound.... you can get these clubsport items to be pretty compliant on the road, but their only so much compliance with race linear springs.

Hi Byron,

The main reason why I opted for the AC Schnitzer Racing kit was because I got it for an incredible price which was just too good to turn down, otherwise I would've gone for the KW Clubsport but not with camber plates, I wanted to retain the front OEM top mounts. I have camber/caster plates on my Z3MC and you lose a bit of compliance on the roads with them. My purpose is for a car that can really handle the twisties, much better than OEM and also one with the capability of having the damping stiffened considerably for when I'm at The Ring. So far, I've only explored the medium/soft settings and it seems that there should be plenty of scope at the medium/stiff end of the range to make the car very capable on track, especially with a 30mm ARB up front.

Sure, I'll happily give you some input about how to go about setting up and definitely will come your way for a look. What spring rates and/or thickness of wire do you have with Clubsports?
 
Hi interesting stuff.
Good to read proper analysis of the oem suspension and how the new on kit is coming on. Enlighten me regarding ARB'S please?
How does a after market item effect the car and what do you hope to achieve with them.
It's a pity I don't live a bit closer, I'd love a pax ride in you car when It's the finished article. I always fancied modding my Z4mc but never got round to it. A well setup Z4mc is a pretty attractive package to me still, a modern car with a few toys, award winning engine for sensible money. What's not to like
 
toplad said:
Hi interesting stuff.
Good to read proper analysis of the oem suspension and how the new on kit is coming on. Enlighten me regarding ARB'S please?
How does a after market item effect the car and what do you hope to achieve with them.
It's a pity I don't live a bit closer, I'd love a pax ride in you car when It's the finished article. I always fancied modding my Z4mc but never got round to it. A well setup Z4mc is a pretty attractive package to me still, a modern car with a few toys, award winning engine for sensible money. What's not to like
I'm glad you find my information useful. :thumbsup:

With regard to fitting aftermarket ARBs: you'll generally read in articles on suspension that ARBs should be used as a means of fine tuning the suspension after the spring rates (with matching dampers) have been increased to correct bodyroll. This may well be good advice for dedicated racecars but increasing spring rates beyond a certain point on road cars is just inappropriate because there will be insufficient suspension movement to cope with the undulations and poor surfaces found on public roads. Generally, aftermarket suspension manufacturers for the Z4MC consider the optimum spring rate for road use is around 400 lbs/ins for the front axle on the Z4MC and this is sufficient to resist pitching, squatting and lateral bodyroll with appropriate damping settings to suit road or track use. Obviously, on "fast road" settings, the damping will be more towards the softer end of the damping range than it will be for track use, therefore the car will tend towards more lateral bodyroll with softer damper settings than it will at higher settings. So, to increase the resistance to lateral bodyroll without increasing spring rates, fitting a stiffer ARB will couple the dampers on the same axle which will increase the resistance to lateral body roll without increasing the spring rate and damping on that axle.

By reducing lateral bodyroll, pitching and squatting, the suspension geometry remains much closer to the static geometry settings in the dynamic situation, which makes the car's handling much more precise and predictable so the geometry can be set to different settings than those used for an OEM set-up. Personally, I like the front end of the car to remain as flat as possible at all times because it makes the steering very precise, due to the geometry remaining close to its settings and although the OEM front ARB is 27mm thick and does a good job, a 30mm ARB will be 50% stiffer, which, from my experience of uprating the ARBs on my Z3MC, I know that this will remove almost all lateral bodyroll. By reducing bodyroll, you are reducing the load transfer to the outside wheel: this means that instead of most of the lateral grip being provided by the outer tyres when cornering, the inside tyres remain in greater contact with the road so that a greater tyre contact patch on each axle resists lateral loading so that you can achieve higher speeds/grip making cornering both faster and safer.

You are welcome to have a Pax ride in my car and you'd then see exactly what I've been up to with the car. Send me a PM of whereabouts you live and we'll see if it's close enough to arrange. By modding the suspension you can turn a very good car into a great one. :driving:
 
UPDATE

I've now fitted the front H&R 30mm adjustable ARB (Part Number 70414). This part is for the E46 M3, because there isn't one listed for the Z4M. Before purchasing, I made enquiries and was assured that it would fit the Z4MC.

It's very easy to fit. Lift the car, remove the front wheels, unfasten the bottom end of the drop links (need 16mm socket and/or 16mm spanner+ another 16mm spanner) Remove the front undertray (need Philips screw driver and 8mm socket) and then undo the ARB brackets (need 13mm socket) and remove the ARB with brackets attached. Installation of the H&R ARB is obviously the reverse of dismantling.

I'd seen a couple of reports of tearing around the bolts on the chassis to which the ARB brackets are attached with Ground Control ARBs, but I expect this is from using them at their stiffest settings. Nonetheless, I'd decided to fit a couple of shims between the chassis and the brackets when installing the upgraded ARBs because this should support the chassis without the need for any welding. So once the brackets were removed I made a couple of shims from some galvanized sheet that I have. I'd also read that the H&R ARBs might need a small amount of modification to the chassis to fit and when I examined the OEM ARB in situ before removing, I reckoned that the clearance of a 30mm bar would be helped by fitting shims above the brackets, which proved to be the case.



This photo shows the E46 M3 ARB with the Z4MC's OEM ARB.

IMG_8749.jpg


My shims that fit between the brackets and the chassis

IMG_8750.jpg


The arrow shows the shim in position with the ARB fitted.

IMG_8751.jpg


The arrow shows the clearance that I've obtained between the ARB and the chassis obtained from using the shims.

IMG_8753.jpg


It's very important to check for clearance of the droplinks from the brake calipers on full lock. To get this right, you need to move the position of the ARB, laterally, within the ARB brackets before you fully tighten the brackets. The photo shows about 10mm of clearance which I have on both sides at full lock.

IMG_8754.jpg


The H&R ARBs are adjustable by fitting the drop links to one of the 3 holes. When the drop links are fitted in the centre hole on both arms, the ARB is 52% stiffer than the Z4MC's 27mm OEM ARB, so I've used this as my starting point.

IMG_8755.jpg



I've been out for a test drive on the twisties and the car performs exactly as I expected. The front end of the car feels even more "planted" and the front suspension feels slightly firmer, this makes the steering very direct and the car goes exactly where you steer it and it eliminates any hint of understeer. You can really feel the tyres gripping the road with an increase in sound from the tyres when sharp cornering. I think that this mod would be worthwhile to anyone with otherwise OEM suspension, especially in conjunction with spacers all round.

I bought the ARB from Evolve http://www.evolveautomotive.com Tel: 01582 584000. I have no connection with Evolve but I've known Imran (as a fellow Z3MC owner) from before he started the company with Sal. If anyone else wants to obtain a front ARB, please tell Imran that Exdos recommended you. :thumbsup:

Fitting uprated ARBs is considered amongst us Z3MC owners as the most cost-effective method of improving handling of the Z3MC and I've recently seen on the zpost forum that those who've done this to Z4MC, they also consider it to be the "best bang for buck" mod for the Z4MC too.
 
That shim will do absolutely nothing for strengthening that anchor point, this was comprehensively discussed over on zpost, without a weld on reinforcement I really think a 50% stiffer bar is a bad idea.
 
Beedub said:
That shim will do absolutely nothing for strengthening that anchor point, this was comprehensively discussed over on zpost, without a weld on reinforcement I really think a 50% stiffer bar is a bad idea.

Byron,

You may be right, but I've been amateur engineering for about 30 years and made all sorts of stuff in my time (including a hydraulically operated gradient adjustable galloping treadmill for horses etc.) so I'm not a complete novice in this field. As I see it, putting a 2mm shim under the ARB bracket is definitely an easy way of strengthening the chassis without welding, although not the ideal, in the same way that putting some extra planks of wood under a heavy wardrobe strengthens a floor to carry a localised, increased load without having to make the entire floor stronger. I can see that the chassis in the area of the brackets will be under both tension as well as compression and it's the tension that will do the damage, but by reducing the loading under compression with shims, this should reduce the flexion which causes fatigue/tearing. If there are no shims, then the chassis is in contact with the flexible bushing which will permit flexion, but a 2mm shim tightly fastened between the chassis and the bush will hardly permit any flexion.

In the case of the Z3MC the H&R ARB is 100% stiffer than OEM and I've never heard of any damage to the chassis at the front. If I end up with a torn chassis of the Z4MC, I'll get it welded then, it's something I'll keep my eye on. I do appreciate your concern though and thanks for making me think twice about this. :thumbsup:

Beedub said:
Love your info tho John, you've become a real asset IMO.

That's very kind of you to say! :D :thumbsup:
 
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