Would you vote differently now?

[rooha]

We have our MEP s as well, who I hope have represented the UK with the same partisan bias !

Maybe, but with only 72 in a parliament of 751 members they can't really protect our interests very effectively! :lol:

72 out of 751 is a massive block. 27 other countries and cant find plenty of common ground to build a consensus and power block around for various issues .... thats a problem caused by a little-englander vs johnny foreigner attitude (basically I mean people like Roger 'I dont understand it so it cant be true' Helmer and Nigel 'Bought and Paid for' Farage) , not the EU.

Hell the loonies in the DUP hold power here with just a clutch full of seats

 

[maxman]

Today after seeing the shambles around the way the politicians from all parties are behaving,undermining the negotiations ,europe must be rubbing their hands with glee.Now I would vote to stay in,I did vote out as I thought Cameron would have a plan in place for either outcome.Yes he did have a plan,jump ship.

 

[original guvnor]

I think its crazy that after all thats gone on people still think out is the right direction.

The country is on its knees and it will take years to recover.

I suppose by "on its knees" you mean the lowest unemployment EVER and in economic growth. Come on Tom, just because you want to stay in, don't try and portray people who think differently as "crazy". You wouldn't like it if I said you were typical of a younger "snowflake" generation living in metropolitan cities who think they're better and cleverer than anyone else. So if you object to that, then don't be so dismissive of people who have a philosophical belief that the EU is anti-competitive, anti-democratic, bureaucratic, and is pushing a pro-globalisation agenda of corporate tax avoidance and cheap labour.

 

[rooha]

I think its crazy that after all thats gone on people still think out is the right direction.

The country is on its knees and it will take years to recover.

I suppose by "on its knees" you mean the lowest unemployment EVER and in economic growth. Come on Tom, just because you want to stay in, don't try and portray people who think differently as "crazy". You wouldn't like it if I said you were typical of a younger "snowflake" generation living in metropolitan cities who think they're better and cleverer than anyone else. So if you object to that, then don't be so dismissive of people who have a philosophical belief that the EU is anti-competitive, anti-democratic, bureaucratic, and is pushing a pro-globalisation agenda of corporate tax avoidance and cheap labour.

Just a different point of view on what you are saying :evil: g
Once you take government spin out of the figures the real unemployment figure is about 20% (although you can bring that down to about 15% if you take out people who dont want a job eg stay at home parents)
http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-lie-behind-the-unemployment-numbers-2017-7

[/quote]
If you object to that, then don't be so dismissive of people who have a philosophical belief that the EU is anti-competitive, anti-democratic, bureaucratic, and is pushing a pro-globalisation agenda of corporate tax avoidance and cheap labour.
[/quote]
Are you sure you dont mean our own government; seriously they would have us all put back in our place given half a chance

 

[ronk]

I’ll gladly trade you a Justin Trudeau for a Theresa May, maybe even throw in a French province as a bonus .....
In short, we are self sufficient but the govt won’t let us.

I seem to remember seeing some very derogatory comments about old Pierre when I was in BC in the 80’s - i think he was as popular as a fart in a space suit, so thank you for your offer of a French Province in the deal but we’ve got enough problems with our crop of home grown expense fiddling politicians.

 

[original guvnor]

I think its crazy that after all thats gone on people still think out is the right direction.

The country is on its knees and it will take years to recover.

I suppose by "on its knees" you mean the lowest unemployment EVER and in economic growth. Come on Tom, just because you want to stay in, don't try and portray people who think differently as "crazy". You wouldn't like it if I said you were typical of a younger "snowflake" generation living in metropolitan cities who think they're better and cleverer than anyone else. So if you object to that, then don't be so dismissive of people who have a philosophical belief that the EU is anti-competitive, anti-democratic, bureaucratic, and is pushing a pro-globalisation agenda of corporate tax avoidance and cheap labour.

Just a different point of view on what you are saying :evil: g
Once you take government spin out of the figures the real unemployment figure is about 20% (although you can bring that down to about 15% if you take out people who dont want a job eg stay at home parents)
http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-lie-behind-the-unemployment-numbers-2017-7

If you object to that, then don't be so dismissive of people who have a philosophical belief that the EU is anti-competitive, anti-democratic, bureaucratic, and is pushing a pro-globalisation agenda of corporate tax avoidance and cheap labour.
[/quote]
Are you sure you dont mean our own government; seriously they would have us all put back in our place given half a chance
[/quote]

Quite sure thanks. If I meant our government I would've said it.

 

[ronk]

This topics certainly brings out some very polarised views but I am sure we can’t survive on our own in the UK - we may have been able to scrape along in the 1950’s with a lifestyle of that era but not now. If we see an upturn in manufacturing it would require the purchase of machine tools - we don’t make them anymore, ships, we don’t make them either, aircraft , only bits. Electronic kit, from China via the USA. Etc .

We may not like or agree with globalisation but we are stuck with it - The UK is a service “industry “ biased econonomy and I don’t see how we can reverse that situation.

 

[Mr Tidy]

FWIW just after the vote I saw a 20something being interviewed on the TV - she had voted to remain because she didn't want to need to apply for a visa to go to France! :roll:

That convinced me I had done the right thing voting to leave!

I went to France loads of times before we joined without needing a visa. :lol:

And people like that have a vote! :roll:

 

[ronk]

FWIW just after the vote I saw a 20something being interviewed on the TV - she had voted to remain because she didn't want to need to apply for a visa to go to France! :roll:

That convinced me I had done the right thing voting to leave!

I went to France loads of times before we joined without needing a visa. :lol:

And people like that have a vote! :roll:

An old lady we know was reliably told that we would loose the NHS if we remained!

I don’t see any side being 100% right or wrong - The whole thing is a complete Pigs Breakfast!

 

[Mr Tidy]

An old lady we know was reliably told that we would loose the NHS if we remained!

I don’t see any side being 100% right or wrong - The whole thing is a complete Pigs Breakfast!

I can see how that could happen, due to poor advice and/or maybe some gentle manipulation!

My mother is 95 but realised the NHS wouldn't be turned off - I'm also sure she didn't vote to remain. :lol:

But yes, it is a complete mess! :? :lol:

Still we had a vote, we had a majority in the vote in favour of leaving so now we surely just need to achieve what that majority voted for - isn't that what a democracy is supposed to do? Or did I miss something?

 

[mcbeee]

His son is no better, he’s intent on building his resume so he can get a seat on the UN Security Council and then be Secretary General . Pretty good for spoiled brat kid who’s an ex junior school drama teacher and a snowboard instructor. And we’re not sure of his parentage, his mother did spend a few nights with the Rolling Stones.

 

[Mr Tidy]

His son is no better, he’s intent on building his resume so he can get a seat on the UN Security Council and then be Secretary General . Pretty good for spoiled brat kid who’s an ex junior school drama teacher and a snowboard instructor. And we’re not sure of his parentage, his mother did spend a few nights with the Rolling Stones.

Great news, but how has that any relevance upon Brexit exactly?! :roll:

 

[original guvnor]

The standard of debate about the merits of Brexit or otherwise is so bad it's laughable.

If you believe in ever greater integration politically and financially then the EU is for you. If you don't believe in that then the EU isn't for you.

These negotiations could've been made so much easier but the EU seems determined to "punish" the UK for deciding to leave because it doesn't want even greater moves towards a federal Europe. It wants to gain back some independence not cede more. Why that should mean that we can't carry on and trade as friends as we do currently only they know. Or is it because they know that the only thing that binds the EU together is fear - fear of what they will try and do to you economically if you leave. Look at Barnier and Juncker. Two jokers (or Merkel puppets) trying bounce us out with a huge bill. Well maybe Germany should be paying the trillions of dollars reparation of post-war Poland and not reneging on its obligations before lecturing us about ours to the EU. Hardly a ringing endorsement of the EU project. I've never been more sure we're better off out. At its heart it is totally undemocratic and people don't seem to realise or care how much of their sovereignty and democracy they are giving up.

Brexit might be bumpy for a year or two but it's the much longer term view that matters. We'll have a better idea 10 years on whether it was all worth it or not.

If this was still the EEC we'd be happy to be part of it remember. This isn't anti-European it's just opposition to a federal Europe and all that entails.

 

[tomscott]

Depends which side of the coin you sit and if it effects you. Its ok when your sitting pretty.

Ive been fully affected by brexit. Took me 3 months to find a job when I moved to Manchester, I had 2 lined up one of which was pretty much a certainty. The week I moved brexit hit, I had my handshake day organised and they cut the job because of scares with brexit. After that point there was barely anything to even apply for. It then took me 3 months! How many of you can survive that long without a job? To the point where it got that desperate that I ended up taking a 1/3 paycut just to get back into work. Completely demoralizing, put a huge pressure on me and my partner and on my mental state.

I finally got a better job a couple of months later and they are primarily an exporter, materials are more expensive, the margins are tighter people have lost their jobs and it made life a lot more difficult.

We are literally just starting to recover from it because it cost me most of my savings.

So yes I think it is crazy OG tbh glad it hasnt effected you in the same way

 

[original guvnor]

Depends which side of the coin you sit and if it effects you. Its ok when your sitting pretty.

Ive been fully affected by brexit. Took me 3 months to find a job when I moved to Manchester, I had 2 lined up one of which was pretty much a certainty. The week I moved brexit hit, I had my handshake day organised and they cut the job because of scares with brexit. After that point there was barely anything to even apply for. It then took me 3 months! How many of you can survive that long without a job? To the point where it got that desperate that I ended up taking a 1/3 paycut just to get back into work. Completely demoralizing, put a huge pressure on me and my partner and on my mental state.

I finally got a better job a couple of months later and they are primarily an exporter, materials are more expensive, the margins are tighter people have lost their jobs and it made life a lot more difficult.

We are literally just starting to recover from it because it cost me most of my savings.

So yes I think it is crazy OG tbh glad it hasnt effected you in the same way

Tom - how was the job affected by Brexit? Just because the employer used that as an excuse. At the point we voted to leave we were still in and would be for years. It's just an excuse. Just like Jamie Oliver is trying to blame Brexit for the crap performance of his restaurant brand. I work in that business and we all know that his brand is crap and had a limited shelf life. If Brexit is bad for the restaurant business how come Wagamama is in double digit LFL sales growth? It's smoke and mirrors bullshit used by companies to try and hide the real reason for their decisions or poor performance. Put another way, it's a convenient excuse. Of course, as we get nearer to Brexit and immediately post-Brexit there will be some casualties because some companies will decide to invest elsewhere and that is their prerogative but many of those casualties will be because they aren't good businesses in the first place. James Dyson who is a manufacturer, one of the industries we're told will be most affected, is very excited for the post-Brexit world. Launching new products, investing and not at all worried about life outside the EU.

 

[mr wilks]

I didn't vote purely because i could see no personal benefit from being either in or out :?
Sure there will be pluses & minuses but will i actually notice ? in or out would my life actually be changed for the better ? or worsen ? At 49 i really doubt i will see any noticeable differences .
As with most political swings , parliaments , governments , legislation , booms , busts etc ive come to the realisation that if you aren't in the bottom 5% or top 5% of the country then you are unlikely to feel any change to a significant affect .
There may well be minor blips as Tom highlights but as i see he's currently in the market for a 35 or ZMR id say things are going ok
I'l just keep working , spending , saving , planning & generally enjoying life much like i have the last 30yrs or so

 

[Buckz]

Wonder why Dyson is very excited do some research on it and you'll see why. Could be something to do with EU telling him to jog on with his suggestions re hoover testing. He just wants to make money, anyway possible and EU stopped him from messing with the end consumer aka you.

It's funny how majority are fingers in their ears pretending that nothing is happening, pound crash alone has made all of us poorer and our money worth less. And that's before we even get to the two year period.

Decision as big as this handed in to public fueled by lies and fake news with a government that has no idea what to do if the leave wins is why we're in such a massive mess. It's been many months since the vote and they still have no idea.

World is very different to what it was in the 70s as much as many leave voters would want you to believe you can't go back to having the same trade deals you had before, it's not an on/off switch.

 

[original guvnor]

Wonder why Dyson is very excited do some research on it and you'll see why. Could be something to do with EU telling him to jog on with his suggestions re hoover testing. He just wants to make money, anyway possible and EU stopped him from messing with the end consumer aka you.

It's funny how majority are fingers in their ears pretending that nothing is happening

Oh and so none of the pro-Remain have a vested interest then and want to make money? I mean, Goldman Sachs is practically a charity isn't it! Talk about naive. Stop trying to claim there will be an economic nuclear winter. Mr Wilks is about right. You're either for the EU integration or you aren't but let's stop the silly George Osborne-esque scare stories.

 

[tomscott]

Depends which side of the coin you sit and if it effects you. Its ok when your sitting pretty.

Ive been fully affected by brexit. Took me 3 months to find a job when I moved to Manchester, I had 2 lined up one of which was pretty much a certainty. The week I moved brexit hit, I had my handshake day organised and they cut the job because of scares with brexit. After that point there was barely anything to even apply for. It then took me 3 months! How many of you can survive that long without a job? To the point where it got that desperate that I ended up taking a 1/3 paycut just to get back into work. Completely demoralizing, put a huge pressure on me and my partner and on my mental state.

I finally got a better job a couple of months later and they are primarily an exporter, materials are more expensive, the margins are tighter people have lost their jobs and it made life a lot more difficult.

We are literally just starting to recover from it because it cost me most of my savings.

So yes I think it is crazy OG tbh glad it hasnt effected you in the same way

Tom - how was the job affected by Brexit? Just because the employer used that as an excuse. At the point we voted to leave we were still in and would be for years. It's just an excuse. Just like Jamie Oliver is trying to blame Brexit for the crap performance of his restaurant brand. I work in that business and we all know that his brand is crap and had a limited shelf life. If Brexit is bad for the restaurant business how come Wagamama is in double digit LFL sales growth? It's smoke and mirrors bullshit used by companies to try and hide the real reason for their decisions or poor performance. Put another way, it's a convenient excuse. Of course, as we get nearer to Brexit and immediately post-Brexit there will be some casualties because some companies will decide to invest elsewhere and that is their prerogative but many of those casualties will be because they aren't good businesses in the first place. James Dyson who is a manufacturer, one of the industries we're told will be most affected, is very excited for the post-Brexit world. Launching new products, investing and not at all worried about life outside the EU.

Ive just told you.

Companies were and still are worried about taking on more people and expanding because of the worry of the pound decreasing and the fact all markets didn't have any confidence in what was going on and we are continuing to see that. Many of these multi nationals are moving looking to move out of Britain not expand.

I work in media... there were no jobs. Non. Full stop. There still arent a lot. Manchester AKA media city.

You may say its smoke and mirrors bullshit but its not, it is affecting people at all levels and because it hasn't effected you doesn't mean it hasn't others and its a very narrow minded view. There are major casualties now, that are starting to show through the woodwork. Regardless of what you think the excuses are those poor performances of said companies... where do you think it trickles down to.

Its a really scary and un-easy time for a lot of people. Frankly one that shouldn't have happened. Makes me really angry.

One statistic I saw yesterday that over the summer holiday 4 million children are in poverty in the UK and have come back to school with malnutrition. That's twice the population of Manchester. People are struggling. Its not just at such a high level its people all around us.

 

[tomscott]

There may well be minor blips as Tom highlights but as i see he's currently in the market for a 35 or ZMR id say things are going ok

Why do you think its taken so long. The budget isnt exactly huge.