Which Bilsteins for E86 with M Sport suspension option?

[ionofchios]

Sorry, this has been kind of covered in lots of other posts, but I can’t find a clear and definitive answer.

I’ve just got an E86 3.0si with M Sport suspension option. I’m going to refresh the the front suspension, but I don’t want to change the ride height. I’ve come to the conclusion that Suplex 06248 are the same spec as standard M Sport springs, and they are 270 mm. But, which Bilsteins should I go for? Again, I don’t want to change the ride height, which I believe is about 15 mm lower than standard suspension.

So, B6s or B8s, I guess - but which? Can anyone confirm that B8s will not change the ride height?

I mailed Bilstein, and they recommended B12 kit, but I think that is because I also asked them if they make springs as well, and that is the only product they do that would include springs.

 

[philbo909]

Sorry, this has been kind of covered in lots of other posts, but I can’t find a clear and definitive answer.

I’ve just got an E86 3.0si with M Sport suspension option. I’m going to refresh the the front suspension, but I don’t want to change the ride height. I’ve come to the conclusion that Suplex 06248 are the same spec as standard M Sport springs, and they are 270 mm. But, which Bilsteins should I go for? Again, I don’t want to change the ride height, which I believe is about 15 mm lower than standard suspension.

So, B6s or B8s, I guess - but which? Can anyone confirm that B8s will not change the ride height?

I mailed Bilstein, and they recommended B12 kit, but I think that is because I also asked them if they make springs as well, and that is the only product they do that would include springs.

B4 sport is MSport equivalent (same height, as firm)
B6 is upgrade (same height, firmer)
B8 is upgrade (lower height, firmer)

B4 and suplex springs shouldn't cost more than £400

I reccomend b4s and and suplex, they're what I changed to a few months ago.

 

[Scooba_Steve]

A shock doesn't change ride height.

If you don't want to lower then B4 will be fine

 

[ionofchios]

Thanks guys.

Ah, yes, I understand that struts don’t change the height, per se, though I suppose if they were way too short, they would compress the spring, right? Anyways, maybe the question is which shock would work best with this spring, lengthwise?

 

[ionofchios]

Sorry, this has been kind of covered in lots of other posts, but I can’t find a clear and definitive answer.

I’ve just got an E86 3.0si with M Sport suspension option. I’m going to refresh the the front suspension, but I don’t want to change the ride height. I’ve come to the conclusion that Suplex 06248 are the same spec as standard M Sport springs, and they are 270 mm. But, which Bilsteins should I go for? Again, I don’t want to change the ride height, which I believe is about 15 mm lower than standard suspension.

So, B6s or B8s, I guess - but which? Can anyone confirm that B8s will not change the ride height?

I mailed Bilstein, and they recommended B12 kit, but I think that is because I also asked them if they make springs as well, and that is the only product they do that would include springs.

B4 sport is MSport equivalent (same height, as firm)
B6 is upgrade (same height, firmer)
B8 is upgrade (lower height, firmer)

B4 and suplex springs shouldn't cost more than £400

I reccomend b4s and and suplex, they're what I changed to a few months ago.

Philbo, did you use the same Suplex spring that I listed, 06248? You have M Sport suspension, right?

 

[davros]

I believe the B8 strut is designed for shorter springs and these are the struts Bilstein include with eibach springs in their B12 kit.
As others have said, the B4 & B6 are for standard height springs, with the B6 being slightly firmer.

 

[philbo909]

Philbo, did you use the same Suplex spring that I listed, 06248? You have M Sport suspension, right?

I have SE spec springs and shocks, my old Zed was MSport and I didn't like the firmness.
I can't remember which codes the springs were, like you I struggled to find information, so just email an eBay seller and they will confirm
http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=332334144127&category=33582&pm=1&ds=0&t=1502103089000&ver=0&cspheader=1
edit:
SE codes are 06252 front spring, 06228 rear spring
so not those, but probably 06248 as the only suspension options are sport and se

 

[ionofchios]

Thanks, all, for your input! It helps.

So, some summary points:

• B4 and B6 are for standard springs

• B8 is for lowered springs

• B6 and B8 are the same firmness

• B4 is less firm that B6 and B8

• Bilstein’s view is that M Sport suspension option is a lowered spring (even though only 15 mm), so recommend the B8

• there are several reports of people using B4 and B6 with M Sport setup and not having any problems

• there are several reports of people using B8 with M Sport setup, also not having issues - the B8 is not ‘too short’ for the only slightly lowered M Sport spring (15 mm), even though it can handle much greater lowering (30-40 mm)

• Bilstein are inconsistent with recommendations regards B4: sometimes say they are for standard, non-lowered setups, and sometimes for lowered setups, up to 40 mm Eibach (from MACK)

• B6 and B8 are 10-20% stiffer than B4 (from MACK)

• B4 is somewhat equivalent to OEM M Sport struts regards stiffness (from MACK)

So, in short, if I stick with M Sport springs, I could use any of these struts and it would work fine. Therefore, I think I will go with B8s, since that is the Bilstein recommendation, and I can find them a bit cheaper.

If anyone finds any fallacy somewhere in my statements or reasoning, please let me know

Part numbers
Suplex M Sport equivalent front spring: 06248 (270 mm)
Bilstein B8 front left: 35-124122
Bilsteins B8 front right: 35-124115

 

[MACK]

Thanks, all, for your input! It helps.

So, some summary points:

B4 and B6 for standard springs
B8 is for lowered springs
B6 and B8 are the same firmness
B4 is less firm that B6 and B8
Bilstein’s view is that M Sport suspension option is a lowered spring (even though only 15 mm), so recommend the B8
There are several reports of people using B4 and B6 with M Sport setup and not having any problems
There are several reports of people using B8 with M Sport setup, also not having issues - the B8 is not ‘too short’ for the only slightly lowered M Sport spring (15 mm), even though it can handle much greater lowering (30-40 mm)

So, in short, if I stick with M Sport springs, I could use any of these struts and it would work fine. Therefore, I think I will go with B8s, since that is the Bilstein recommendation, and I can find them a bit cheaper.

If anyone finds any fallacy somewhere in my statements or reasoning, please let me know

Part numbers
Suplex M Sport equivalent front spring: 06248 (270 mm)
Bilstein B8 front left: 35-124122
Bilsteins B8 front right: 35-124115

The only thing I would add to the above is to highlight the contridictory nature of the bilstein advice regarding the B4 shocks. On one hand they tell you they're for standard, so non M Sport suspension. Only then to tell you they're fine for use with lowering springs up to 40mm. My understanding is if comfort rather than performance is your primary driver then using B4 shocks instead of B6/8 is the way to go. The B6/8 stuff is 10-20% uprated over an already stiff M Sport shock. Where the B4 is supposidly akin to the non M Sport shock. Yes utimately the monotube B6/8 will out perform the twin tube B4 but plenty have paired the B4 with both M Sport and Eibach springs and like it. Especially over knackered original shocks for standard road use.

 

[ionofchios]

Thanks, all, for your input! It helps.

So, some summary points:

B4 and B6 for standard springs
B8 is for lowered springs
B6 and B8 are the same firmness
B4 is less firm that B6 and B8
Bilstein’s view is that M Sport suspension option is a lowered spring (even though only 15 mm), so recommend the B8
There are several reports of people using B4 and B6 with M Sport setup and not having any problems
There are several reports of people using B8 with M Sport setup, also not having issues - the B8 is not ‘too short’ for the only slightly lowered M Sport spring (15 mm), even though it can handle much greater lowering (30-40 mm)

So, in short, if I stick with M Sport springs, I could use any of these struts and it would work fine. Therefore, I think I will go with B8s, since that is the Bilstein recommendation, and I can find them a bit cheaper.

If anyone finds any fallacy somewhere in my statements or reasoning, please let me know

Part numbers
Suplex M Sport equivalent front spring: 06248 (270 mm)
Bilstein B8 front left: 35-124122
Bilsteins B8 front right: 35-124115

The only thing I would add to the above is to highlight the contridictory nature of the bilstein advice regarding the B4 shocks. On one hand they tell you they're for standard, so non M Sport suspension. Only then to tell you they're fine for use with lowering springs up to 40mm. My understanding is if comfort rather than performance is your primary driver then using B4 shocks instead of B6/8 is the way to go. The B6/8 stuff is 10-20% uprated over an already stiff M Sport shock. Where the B4 is supposidly akin to the non M Sport shock. Yes utimately the monotube B6/8 will out perform the twin tube B4 but plenty have paired the B4 with both M Sport and Eibach springs and like it. Especially over knackered original shocks for standard road use.

Thanks! I have added your input to the original list.

Damn, now I'm thinking I will cancel buy order and go for B4s with the same Suplex springs

 

[philbo909]

Thanks, all, for your input! It helps.

So, some summary points:

B4 and B6 for standard springs
B8 is for lowered springs
B6 and B8 are the same firmness
B4 is less firm that B6 and B8
Bilstein’s view is that M Sport suspension option is a lowered spring (even though only 15 mm), so recommend the B8
There are several reports of people using B4 and B6 with M Sport setup and not having any problems
There are several reports of people using B8 with M Sport setup, also not having issues - the B8 is not ‘too short’ for the only slightly lowered M Sport spring (15 mm), even though it can handle much greater lowering (30-40 mm)

So, in short, if I stick with M Sport springs, I could use any of these struts and it would work fine. Therefore, I think I will go with B8s, since that is the Bilstein recommendation, and I can find them a bit cheaper.

If anyone finds any fallacy somewhere in my statements or reasoning, please let me know

Part numbers
Suplex M Sport equivalent front spring: 06248 (270 mm)
Bilstein B8 front left: 35-124122
Bilsteins B8 front right: 35-124115

The only thing I would add to the above is to highlight the contridictory nature of the bilstein advice regarding the B4 shocks. On one hand they tell you they're for standard, so non M Sport suspension. Only then to tell you they're fine for use with lowering springs up to 40mm. My understanding is if comfort rather than performance is your primary driver then using B4 shocks instead of B6/8 is the way to go. The B6/8 stuff is 10-20% uprated over an already stiff M Sport shock. Where the B4 is supposidly akin to the non M Sport shock. Yes utimately the monotube B6/8 will out perform the twin tube B4 but plenty have paired the B4 with both M Sport and Eibach springs and like it. Especially over knackered original shocks for standard road use.

Thanks! I have added your input to the original list.

Damn, now I'm thinking I will cancel buy order and go for B4s with the same Suplex springs

Just to add confusion, you have standard bilstein b4 and sport bilstein b4
SE and MSport equivalent

 

[ph001]

Does the shock really make a big difference to the ‘hardness’ of the suspension anyway? Obviously it controls compression and rebound dsmping but I would have though the hardness is primarily down to the stiffness of the spring.

 

[ionofchios]

Does the shock really make a big difference to the ‘hardness’ of the suspension anyway? Obviously it controls compression and rebound dsmping but I would have though the hardness is primarily down to the stiffness of the spring.

I guess the more it damps, the more it stops the spring compressing as fast as it otherwise would, so it will be 'harder'.

 

[Chris1981]

Does the shock really make a big difference to the ‘hardness’ of the suspension anyway? Obviously it controls compression and rebound dsmping but I would have though the hardness is primarily down to the stiffness of the spring.

I guess the more it damps, the more it stops the spring compressing as fast as it otherwise would, so it will be 'harder'.

When i went from OEM to B8's the ride firmed up significantly... although my OEMs were 90k miles old and completely shot!

I believe you've come to this conclusion yourself already but if you have M Sport you need the B8's, image below is front B6 and OEM M Sport, I made the mistake of ordering B6s as I read they are fine to replace M Sport and cheaper than the B8's while offering the same damping rate... but I didn't feel comfortable fitting something so different and the supplier was kind enough to do a straight swap to the B8s!

 

[MACK]

The only thing I would add to the above is to highlight the contridictory nature of the bilstein advice regarding the B4 shocks. On one hand they tell you they're for standard, so non M Sport suspension. Only then to tell you they're fine for use with lowering springs up to 40mm. My understanding is if comfort rather than performance is your primary driver then using B4 shocks instead of B6/8 is the way to go. The B6/8 stuff is 10-20% uprated over an already stiff M Sport shock. Where the B4 is supposidly akin to the non M Sport shock. Yes utimately the monotube B6/8 will out perform the twin tube B4 but plenty have paired the B4 with both M Sport and Eibach springs and like it. Especially over knackered original shocks for standard road use.

Thanks! I have added your input to the original list.

Damn, now I'm thinking I will cancel buy order and go for B4s with the same Suplex springs

Just to add confusion, you have standard bilstein b4 and sport bilstein b4
SE and MSport equivalent

They do for some models. But on the e85/6 Its just the one B4 variety which is supposedly the non m sport equivalent.

 

[ionofchios]

Does the shock really make a big difference to the ‘hardness’ of the suspension anyway? Obviously it controls compression and rebound dsmping but I would have though the hardness is primarily down to the stiffness of the spring.

I guess the more it damps, the more it stops the spring compressing as fast as it otherwise would, so it will be 'harder'.

When i went from OEM to B8's the ride firmed up significantly... although my OEMs were 90k miles old and completely shot!

I believe you've come to this conclusion yourself already but if you have M Sport you need the B8's, image below is front B6 and OEM M Sport, I made the mistake of ordering B6s as I read they are fine to replace M Sport and cheaper than the B8's while offering the same damping rate... but I didn't feel comfortable fitting something so different and the supplier was kind enough to do a straight swap to the B8s!

IMG_0953.JPG

Good pic!

Right, so now I am going to let you all know how dumb I really am How can it be that the strut designed for lowered springs (the OEM M Sport in the pic) has a longer body than the strut designed for standard sprin (the B6 in the pic)? Wouldn't that mean that the strut does affect ride height? If the flange on the strut the spring sits on is further away from the wheel on the B8/ OEM M Sport strut, doesn't that negate the effect of the shorter springs - so you are lowering the car with the springs, but raising it with the longer strut body, in effect?

Until now, I had been imagining that all struts bodies - B4, B6, B8, OEM M Sport, OEM standard, whatever - were the same length, it is just that some are designed for the shorter piston travel of shorter springs and some not.

 

[MACK]

Does the shock really make a big difference to the ‘hardness’ of the suspension anyway? Obviously it controls compression and rebound dsmping but I would have though the hardness is primarily down to the stiffness of the spring.

I guess the more it damps, the more it stops the spring compressing as fast as it otherwise would, so it will be 'harder'.

When i went from OEM to B8's the ride firmed up significantly... although my OEMs were 90k miles old and completely shot!

I believe you've come to this conclusion yourself already but if you have M Sport you need the B8's, image below is front B6 and OEM M Sport, I made the mistake of ordering B6s as I read they are fine to replace M Sport and cheaper than the B8's while offering the same damping rate... but I didn't feel comfortable fitting something so different and the supplier was kind enough to do a straight swap to the B8s!

IMG_0953.JPG

Interesting that the B8s firmed up the ride alot over knackered old 90k suspension. Your experience confirms what others have said in previous threads and that they're supposed to be uprate anything from 10 to 30%. It's the main reason I have held off fitting them to mine. I may go down the B4 route instead now.

 

[mjennings23]

B4s and Suplex MSport replacement springs here, and the ride is like a different car to the old factory parts. Much easier over bumps, but also much more planted and sure footed than the MSport shocks.

Consider however that replacing old shocks, they're going to be pretty worn out by now if they're factory parts.

 

[Chris1981]

I guess the more it damps, the more it stops the spring compressing as fast as it otherwise would, so it will be 'harder'.

When i went from OEM to B8's the ride firmed up significantly... although my OEMs were 90k miles old and completely shot!

I believe you've come to this conclusion yourself already but if you have M Sport you need the B8's, image below is front B6 and OEM M Sport, I made the mistake of ordering B6s as I read they are fine to replace M Sport and cheaper than the B8's while offering the same damping rate... but I didn't feel comfortable fitting something so different and the supplier was kind enough to do a straight swap to the B8s!

IMG_0953.JPG

Good pic!

Right, so now I am going to let you all know how dumb I really am How can it be that the strut designed for lowered springs (the OEM M Sport in the pic) has a longer body than the strut designed for standard sprin (the B6 in the pic)? Wouldn't that mean that the strut does affect ride height? If the flange on the strut the spring sits on is further away from the wheel on the B8/ OEM M Sport strut, doesn't that negate the effect of the shorter springs - so you are lowering the car with the springs, but raising it with the longer strut body, in effect?

Until now, I had been imagining that all struts bodies - B4, B6, B8, OEM M Sport, OEM standard, whatever - were the same length, it is just that some are designed for the shorter piston travel of shorter springs and some not.

Sorry, the photo is a bit deceptive... the tapered part at the bottom of the OEM extrudes below the front Hub and the Bilstein doesn't. That brings the spring pads inline when fitted on vehicle but makes the height difference even greater.

Bilstein


OEM

 

[NickDE]

I'm running B4s along with the Suplex equivalents to the M Sport springs. I'm happy.