What real world difference is there between engines?

[rabman5]

Not better, just more of out and out speed...thats what you seem to want from a car. Again.....i think all the Zs do exactly what they are meant to do. The M is the sharpest but on a daily basis you have made compromises in your choise of an M over the other Zs to be able to enjoy the Extra proformance. Lets be honest, you never bought an M over the 3 because you thought the M would be more comfortable or easier to live with. You bought it because its faster and sharper ( easpecially on paper or on a Track) but in reality when driving in average road conditions ( streets and Motorways ) the extra proformance isnt much of a bonus, where as the more compliant ride and lower fuel bills are.

At what point have I said I'm looking for more speed? Never. I like the way the M feels. I'm glad you feel informed enough to tell me why I made my choices, I'd never assume the same about others. :roll: I'll say this for the last time...I drove a Z4 3.0 for three years. I loved it. I bought my M for many reasons, and since then, I've learned to appreciate the differences, which are many. It isn't even fair to compare the steering feel in the two cars. They aren't even close. I'm not saying one is better. Only very different. Relax, you have a great car. But very different. This from a person who has owned both of these very fine cars and driven almost 60,000 miles in the seats . :wink:

 

[ovrkll]

Out of interest. if you read most of the road tests by different magazines, they nearly all say that the 3.0si is the better car on the road. :wink:

I have tested a Z4M Coupe a couple of times now, the second one for over 1/2 a day, and the differences still didn't jump out at me and say "buy me". If It had, I would have! :wink:

There were differences, and I liked the steering feel more at speed of the M, but I was a little disappointed in the performance difference to be honest. I was expecting more I guess. :?

There speaks the Voice of reason!!!!

You picked the wrong person to be quoting,,,,Breaker has been trying to say, forever, that the 3.0 = //M and that his old "hothatch" performed even better.

 

[Hunter]

Out of interest. if you read most of the road tests by different magazines, they nearly all say that the 3.0si is the better car on the road. :wink:

I have tested a Z4M Coupe a couple of times now, the second one for over 1/2 a day, and the differences still didn't jump out at me and say "buy me". If It had, I would have! :wink:

There were differences, and I liked the steering feel more at speed of the M, but I was a little disappointed in the performance difference to be honest. I was expecting more I guess. :?

There speaks the Voice of reason!!!!

You picked the wrong person to be quoting,,,,Breaker has been trying to say, forever, that the 3.0 = //M and that his old "hothatch" performed even better.

Is he the wrong person because YOU think his opinion is invalid because it may differ from yours?

 

[Breaker]

Out of interest. if you read most of the road tests by different magazines, they nearly all say that the 3.0si is the better car on the road. :wink:

I have tested a Z4M Coupe a couple of times now, the second one for over 1/2 a day, and the differences still didn't jump out at me and say "buy me". If It had, I would have! :wink:

There were differences, and I liked the steering feel more at speed of the M, but I was a little disappointed in the performance difference to be honest. I was expecting more I guess. :?

There speaks the Voice of reason!!!!

You picked the wrong person to be quoting,,,,Breaker has been trying to say, forever, that the 3.0 = //M and that his old "hothatch" performed even better.

I have kept up with and lost more powerful cars than the M in that "old" JCW MINI! EVO mag couldn't shake the one they had as a test car with the M3 they were testing!! I still miss that car!
Have you ever driven one? I have driven the Z4 and the Z4M and an M3 so I can compare. :wink:

Shame we live in a different country else I could show you! :wink:

Don't forget, my thinking is based on daily "usable" power, not paper or track figures.

 

[Hunter]

Go Breaker !!!!! Dont think anything you say ( even tho you have the experience ) as some poeple are blinkered in their views. It must be hard to admit that after paying the extra money, the differences arnt that disernable. Some might pay more for the exclusivity.But thats about all.

 

[Breaker]

At the end of the day "you pay's your money and takes your choice" as they say! :wink:

 

[Andrew D]

It must be hard to admit that after paying the extra money, the differences arnt that disernable. Some might pay more for the exclusivity.But thats about all.

Hmm... I can understand (but don't necessarily agree with) the day-to-day driving arguement, but to say that the only difference is exclusivity is a much much for me.

There's no doubt you need to ring out the Z4M to high revs to access the power, but once you do you'll notice the difference. And I understand that not everyone rings out the motor to high revs day-to-day, but it's a fair bet that most M owners will; if you want accessible torque you don't buy a Z4M, you get an SLK55.

 

[Breaker]

Most of the posts are regarding the Z4M and the 3.0si. Just a bit more power than the 3.0SE.

Z4 3.0si Coupe:
Emissions: 207 g/km
0-62: 5.7 sec
50-75 (4th gear):5.2 sec
Weight: 1,395
Fuel Consumption (combined): 32.5 MPG
Drag: 0.34
BHP: 265@6600 RPM
Torque (Nm): 315/2750 RPM


Z4M Coupe:
Emissions: 292 g/km
0-62: 5.0 sec
50-75 (4th gear):5.0 sec
Weight: 1,495
Fuel Consumption (combined): 23.3 MPG
Drag: 0.35
BHP: 343@7900 RPM
Torque (Nm): 365/4900 RPM

As far a running costs go, I can get fully comp insurance and road tax for cheaper than the M's road tax a year!
Depends on your circumstances I guess. :wink:

You mention the Vanquish.

Look at the performance differences between the M and the Vanquish on paper:

Vanquish 338 kW (460 PS; 453 bhp) @ 6,500 rpm
400 ft·lbf (540 N·m) @ 5000 rpm
0-62: 4.4 secs
Top speed: 196 mph (315 km/h)

Now the performance figures between the M and the Vanquish are quite big on paper, yet the M went round the track quicker. In a straight line the Vanquish would pull ahead.
The differences between the M and the 3.0si are almost negligible in comparison and this is in almost the same car. The M will pull away from the 3.0si as the RPM gets nearer the redline, but on the road this will not be enough for the M to pull away from the 3.0si convincingly. I bet with the limiters in place the gap wouldn't be as great as you may think in a straight line either! :wink:

As I said earlier, I would love to see an M and a 3.0si have a drag race on a closed circuit. The M would win, but it would be interesting to see the difference.

 

[Andy]

funny.. i can't see why id wanna test drive a 3.0si at all, i'm so happy with my car and know I bought the right one for me, I love it.

I dont need to compare it to anything, or rationalise costs, or judge it.. it's an absolute animal and there's not a single car on the road I'd rather be in, 99% of the time when I'm driving it.

 

[Hunter]

Most of the posts are regarding the Z4M and the 3.0si. Just a bit more power than the 3.0SE.

Z4 3.0si Coupe:
Emissions: 207 g/km
0-62: 5.7 sec
50-75 (4th gear):5.2 sec
Weight: 1,395
Fuel Consumption (combined): 32.5 MPG
Drag: 0.34
BHP: 265@6600 RPM
Torque (Nm): 315/2750 RPM


Z4M Coupe:
Emissions: 292 g/km
0-62: 5.0 sec
50-75 (4th gear):5.0 sec
Weight: 1,495
Fuel Consumption (combined): 23.3 MPG
Drag: 0.35
BHP: 343@7900 RPM
Torque (Nm): 365/4900 RPM

As far a running costs go, I can get fully comp insurance and road tax for cheaper than the M's road tax a year!
Depends on your circumstances I guess. :wink:

You cant deny the figures guys!!!!!

 

[Breaker]

funny.. i can't see why id wanna test drive a 3.0si at all, i'm so happy with my car and know I bought the right one for me, I love it.

I dont need to compare it to anything, or rationalise costs, or judge it.. it's an absolute animal and there's not a single car on the road I'd rather be in, 99% of the time when I'm driving it.

Yes, but that's a boring attitude!! It doesn't start "interesting debate" on forums!
Can't beat a good "debate". Keep fuelling the fire guys!!

 

[Hunter]

funny.. i can't see why id wanna test drive a 3.0si at all, i'm so happy with my car and know I bought the right one for me, I love it.

I dont need to compare it to anything, or rationalise costs, or judge it.. it's an absolute animal and there's not a single car on the road I'd rather be in, 99% of the time when I'm driving it.

OMG, not a single car on the road youd rather be in? Lambo, GT3, Zonda none of them? New GTR not take your fancy? Now those are animals. For the same money as a ZM how about a real fast car??? A Sagaris? now thats a Animal.

 

[Andy]

99% of the time.. because they're so rare to see. Tbh, when I bought my //M three years ago, you didn't ever see an M or a Coupé at all. Now I see probably 5 a week collectively...

You're close with that list, not bothered about a Zonda or a GTR altho I'd love a steer in both, wouldn't care to own either.

& a Sagaris ? No thanks.. wouldn't have confidence in either build quality or long mileage without the safety aids.. I drive my M 70% of the time with DSC off anyway, but every so often tired / hungover / other I wouldn't be without it.

Gallardo is probably next for me at this rate as the MR surprised me as a real keeper, & with this sort of argument I'd find it difficult to justify the "real world" difference between a Gallardo and an M, without bringing in things like boot space, range, etc.

 

[Hunter]

99% of the time.. because they're so rare to see. Tbh, when I bought my //M three years ago, you didn't ever see an M or a Coupé at all. Now I see probably 5 a week collectively...

You're close with that list, not bothered about a Zonda or a GTR altho I'd love a steer in both, wouldn't care to own either.

Gallardo is probably next for me at this rate as the MR surprised me as a real keeper, & with this sort of argument I'd find it difficult to justify the "real world" difference between a Gallardo and an M, without bringing in things like boot space, range, etc.

The sagaris is the way to go, Lambo crushing figures and looks that kill and a sound that could only come from a TVR. Awsome!!!! too much of a drivers car for most tho.

 

[Andy]

sorry i edited above just before you replied.. kinda same reasoning.

 

[Mr Whippy]

Most of the posts are regarding the Z4M and the 3.0si. Just a bit more power than the 3.0SE.

Z4 3.0si Coupe:
Emissions: 207 g/km
0-62: 5.7 sec
50-75 (4th gear):5.2 sec
Weight: 1,395
Fuel Consumption (combined): 32.5 MPG
Drag: 0.34
BHP: 265@6600 RPM
Torque (Nm): 315/2750 RPM


Z4M Coupe:
Emissions: 292 g/km
0-62: 5.0 sec
50-75 (4th gear):5.0 sec
Weight: 1,495
Fuel Consumption (combined): 23.3 MPG
Drag: 0.35
BHP: 343@7900 RPM
Torque (Nm): 365/4900 RPM

As far a running costs go, I can get fully comp insurance and road tax for cheaper than the M's road tax a year!
Depends on your circumstances I guess. :wink:

You cant deny the figures guys!!!!!

That in-gear time is not fair, considering the MZ4 will top out in 4th at about 138mph, vs 120mph for the 3.0Si

60mph time is off the pace significantly for the Si


Si is good, no doubt, but M is better.

If you want M pace without M costs, an Alpina or ESS supercharger kit is probably the best idea on an older 3.0i (longer gearing, cheaper to buy etc)

Dave

 

[Hunter]

Build Quality now is good and reliabilty is heaps better. I had a Cerebra and it never let me down once. Just driving down the street and blipping the throttle used to set everyones car alarms off. Awsome.
Is it speed, exclusivity or looks that your after? The sag wins in all three accounts.

 

[duckson]

This thread is hilarious, it seems to be all the Si owners trying to convince themselves and everyone else who is listening that they've bought the best car.
The Si is down 37bhp/tonne on the M, that is a very large margin.
The running costs arent massively different either, for me at least, i dont do mega mileage a year (6-7k tops) and it makes sense to get the best Z4 in the circumstances. Agreed the Si is a good compromise if your doing largish mileages and have one eye on the finances.

Some stats i've found:-

http://www.autozine.org/Graveyard/html/BMW/Z4_E85.html

http://www.fastestlaps.com/car458f012060be9.html
http://www.fastestlaps.com/car467a49836950c.html

Power at Flywheel (BHP) : 338
Weight without Driver (KG) : 1495
Power to Weight Ratio (BHP Per Ton) : 229.72
0 - 60 (Secs) : 4.93
0 - 100 (Secs) : 11.38
60 - 100 (Secs) : 6.45
Quarter Mile (Secs) : 13.19
Terminal Speed (MPH) : 107.65
Drag Strip Quarter Mile (Secs) : 13.09
Drag Strip Terminal Speed (MPH) : 108.87

Power at Flywheel (BHP) : 265
Weight without Driver (KG) : 1395
Power to Weight Ratio (BHP Per Ton) : 193.01
0 - 60 (Secs) : 5.66
0 - 100 (Secs) : 13.99
60 - 100 (Secs) : 8.32
Quarter Mile (Secs) : 14.00
Terminal Speed (MPH) : 100.03
Drag Strip Quarter Mile (Secs) : 13.90
Drag Strip Terminal Speed (MPH) : 101.17


(i know the weight without drivers are incorrect)

Differences are pretty marked.

 

[Andy]

One of the bits that makes up the extra weight is the LSD.

God am I happy to have one of them.

 

[Smokin]

This thread is hilarious, it seems to be all the Si owners trying to convince themselves and everyone else who is listening that they've bought the best car.

The best car for US.

All the M drivers are trying to convince us Si drivers that they have places (on the street, not on the track) they can actually USE that difference.

(Track is a whole 'nother thing. M definitely has an advantage on the track IF the driver knows how to exploit it)