What real world difference is there between engines?

[Hunter]

Power at Flywheel (BHP) : 338
Weight without Driver (KG) : 1495
Power to Weight Ratio (BHP Per Ton) : 229.72
0 - 60 (Secs) : 4.93
0 - 100 (Secs) : 11.38
60 - 100 (Secs) : 6.45
Quarter Mile (Secs) : 13.19
Terminal Speed (MPH) : 107.65
Drag Strip Quarter Mile (Secs) : 13.09
Drag Strip Terminal Speed (MPH) : 108.87

Power at Flywheel (BHP) : 265
Weight without Driver (KG) : 1395
Power to Weight Ratio (BHP Per Ton) : 193.01
0 - 60 (Secs) : 5.66
0 - 100 (Secs) : 13.99
60 - 100 (Secs) : 8.32
Quarter Mile (Secs) : 14.00
Terminal Speed (MPH) : 100.03
Drag Strip Quarter Mile (Secs) : 13.90
Drag Strip Terminal Speed (MPH) : 101.17

All means nothing when your driving in town or even on the M-Way but the fuel bill and extra insurance mean less money in the hip pocket. Give both cars to decent driver and around the average town or estate, the 3 would be quicker due to more low down torque

 

[duckson]

All means nothing when your driving in town or even on the M-Way but the fuel bill and extra insurance mean less money in the hip pocket. Give both cars to decent driver and around the average town or estate, the 3 would be quicker due to more low down torque

So when some figures posted fit in with your arguments they are valid and when they dont they arent.
And your quicker around town/estastes is your opinion, the figures state otherwise, even your in gear acceleration in 4th posted previously was quicker in the M.....so thats not the 3 being quicker by using its (questionable) torque advantage. :roll: In any case the stick on your left changes how fast you go, use it!
Whats the point in having a 3.0Si when the 2.0 "does" in town? I only use the M when the road allows and is open and quiet and not a 30mph limit, rest of the time i could be driving a 1L, it dont matter its for use when the road conditions allow and when thats the case the M is far quicker no question.

Anyone have any graphs for torque/bhp on the 2 engines?

 

[duckson]

All i can find with drag race differences are:-

335i vs 3.0Si
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SdpPQW0kqs

335i wins easily.

Z4M vs 335i
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NNJ3pX_h1E&feature=related

Z4M wins easily.

No direct comparisons really, though this one of the Z4M coupe vs the RS4 is good and pretty close up to silly speeds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBZN29-nZZE

 

[Mr Whippy]

Power at Flywheel (BHP) : 338
Weight without Driver (KG) : 1495
Power to Weight Ratio (BHP Per Ton) : 229.72
0 - 60 (Secs) : 4.93
0 - 100 (Secs) : 11.38
60 - 100 (Secs) : 6.45
Quarter Mile (Secs) : 13.19
Terminal Speed (MPH) : 107.65
Drag Strip Quarter Mile (Secs) : 13.09
Drag Strip Terminal Speed (MPH) : 108.87

Power at Flywheel (BHP) : 265
Weight without Driver (KG) : 1395
Power to Weight Ratio (BHP Per Ton) : 193.01
0 - 60 (Secs) : 5.66
0 - 100 (Secs) : 13.99
60 - 100 (Secs) : 8.32
Quarter Mile (Secs) : 14.00
Terminal Speed (MPH) : 100.03
Drag Strip Quarter Mile (Secs) : 13.90
Drag Strip Terminal Speed (MPH) : 101.17

All means nothing when your driving in town or even on the M-Way but the fuel bill and extra insurance mean less money in the hip pocket. Give both cars to decent driver and around the average town or estate, the 3 would be quicker due to more low down torque

But that is not all the M has over a 3.0Si.

It comes without dumbass tyres as standard.

It DOES have extra performance when needed.

It has more drama in it's appearance when you look at it.

It likely does stop better.

It has significant aspects to it's on-road nature that many may prefer over the 3.0i/Si


Those simple statistics posted above yet again miss the point of the M car. Any comparison of performance vs costs does, because if they were your criteria, you would buy an Evo FQ MR 360 and have done!
Emotional preferences are not considered in this arguement. The M car is the car I'd have if I could simply because it's just a bit more of everything that makes the Z4 so great to start with

Dave

 

[Anonymous]

The ///M cars are amongst the fastest in the real world. The Germans designed & produced them to be exactly that. The engines, producing over 100HP/Litre naturally aspirated are the best the world has ever seen - or will, given the EU constraints now in force.

The S2000 has been producing 237 BHP from it's 2L NA engine since 1999 and has won a shedload of awards for best engine year on year.

Not dissing the M at all here btw - love that engine - just pointing out that Honda had the >100 BHP per litre thing sewn up a while ago!

 

[duckson]

http://www.rri.se/index.php?DN=29

You can pull the repective graphs up here with dyno runs the website has done but it also shows the stock plots on the graphs.

 

[Breaker]

Thanks for that. Good site!

 

[Breaker]

Emotional preferences are not considered in this argument. The M car is the car I'd have if I could simply because it's just a bit more of everything that makes the Z4 so great to start with

Dave

Now that is the best argument why you would get an M over a 3.0si!

 

[pvr]

I have owned both, and I would rate them as follows:

"Old" Z4 3.0, New Z4 35, Old Z4M.

Driving in the mountains with the M was amazing, it was very nice in the 3.0.

Fortunately, when I drive the Z I do tend to push it a bit so do notice the difference that LSD etc make.

 

[Breaker]

All i can find with drag race differences are:-

335i vs 3.0Si
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SdpPQW0kqs

335i wins easily.

Z4M vs 335i
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NNJ3pX_h1E&feature=related

Z4M wins easily.

No direct comparisons really, though this one of the Z4M coupe vs the RS4 is good and pretty close up to silly speeds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBZN29-nZZE

Now we are getting somewhere!! We need more substantial proof like this about performance! I'm just playing Devils advocate sometimes. If the proof is there (not just banter between owners) then that answers the first post in this thread!

The M is impressive on those vids, but at the moment I am still not convinced myself that the M is worth the extra money on the road. :wink:

 

[duckson]

You'll always pay a premium for the top of the line, the cutting edge, the law of diminishing returns!

 

[Shipkiller]

The S54B32 is a high-performance engine used in BMW M vehicles. It replaces the U.S. S52B32 and the European S50B32 engines of the E36 M3. Its block is made from grey cast iron rather than aluminum to achieve greater rigidity from the same dimensions. It is a 3.2 L (3246 cc) engine; bore is 87 mm (3.4 in) and stroke is 91 mm (3.6 in). Power output is 343 hp (252 kW) at 7900 rpm with 269 ft·lb (365 Nm) of torque at 4900 rpm with an 8000 rpm redline. These performance numbers apply only to non-US versions of this engine in the M3, as the US version of this engine required some modifications (such as close-coupled catalytic converters closer to the engine exhaust ports) and thus produced slightly less power at 333 hp (248 kW) and 262 ft·lb (355 Nm). The Z4 using this engine was rated at 330 HP, while the Z3 that used this engine was rated at 315 HP.

The S54 won the International Engine of the Year award overall for 2001, and also claimed the "Best New Engine" that year as well as won the 3-4 L category for six straight years in a row from 2001 through 2006. The S54 was also on the Ward's 10 Best Engines list for 2001 through 2004.