What is normal oil temperature?

[Mr Tidy]

Inspired by "tiglon's" post on the E89 section I thought I'd ask on here because I've been wondering ever since I got my car, and probably am even more paranoid about it since I had the shell bearings replaced last year. :roll:

I don't pay much attention to the amber lights because they are all off almost before the gauge has moved off the stop!

My car has only ever got above about 90 degrees a couple of times since I had it and that only happens on hot days or when I've been sitting in traffic.

So I work on 90 degrees being fully warmed up meaning I can then give it some revs as/when appropriate.

But I'd be interested to know what temperature others' Ms run at, and their threshold for some fun!

Thanks.

 

[Ed Doe]

90-100 for me, 110 if driving enthusiastically. 125 on track

Edit - same as you mine never gets more than light throttle and less than 3krpm until its at 90, just not interested in chewing my new rod bearings either!

 

[BMWZ4MC]

More or less as above:
- normal running once up to temperature just below 100C,
- UK track days about 110C,
- Aus track day maximum 125C

 

[mr wilks]

With those temps It can't be coincidence that tracked S54s suffer more than non tracked , would you say the numbers above are "normal" for most cars on track days ?
I was watching the oil temps quite closely on my TTRS this weekend , ts had 450 hard miles added the last 3 days with a few others in the Lakes & Dales , yesterday particular hard climbing the passes over Kirkstone , Hardknot & Wrynose done after a few hours of enthusiastic mileage & oil temp peaked at 94c :? it predominantly sits around 90c .

Perhaps Bmw should have worked harder at keeping the temps down with a better / bigger fan coming in sooner ?
Are there mods you can do to them to help with engine cooling ?
I guess it also emphasises the importance of good quality clean oil at the right levels along with the right coolant mix .

 

[Chippie]

Normally for me the oil temp sits around the 90, driving hard around 100, I’ve seen it up to about 110 but no higher, I don’t think I drive it particularly hard though and haven’t done any track days.
The 35is is fitted with an air cooled oil cooler from production and I think the later 35i is as well,

Edit
Not paying attention, didn’t notice it was M specific so my comment isn’t really relevant

 

[Ed Doe]

With those temps It can't be coincidence that tracked S54s suffer more than non tracked , would you say the numbers above are "normal" for most cars on track days ?
I was watching the oil temps quite closely on my TTRS this weekend , ts had 450 hard miles added the last 3 days with a few others in the Lakes & Dales , yesterday particular hard climbing the passes over Kirkstone , Hardknot & Wrynose done after a few hours of enthusiastic mileage & oil temp peaked at 94c :? it predominantly sits around 90c .

Perhaps Bmw should have worked harder at keeping the temps down with a better / bigger fan coming in sooner ?
Are there mods you can do to them to help with engine cooling ?
I guess it also emphasises the importance of good quality clean oil at the right levels along with the right coolant mix .

Not really no. 10w60 is designed to offer stable viscosity at high ttemperatures such as track applications - a side effect is that it's hideously thick when cold, which in turn is anecdotally at least a significant factor in rod bearing wear as technically the oil is too thick to offer decent protection when cold.

125c isn't particularly hot for a 10w60 oil, 145c is where the viscosity starts to change due to thermal breakdown.

 

[TomK]

With those temps It can't be coincidence that tracked S54s suffer more than non tracked , would you say the numbers above are "normal" for most cars on track days ?
I was watching the oil temps quite closely on my TTRS this weekend , ts had 450 hard miles added the last 3 days with a few others in the Lakes & Dales , yesterday particular hard climbing the passes over Kirkstone , Hardknot & Wrynose done after a few hours of enthusiastic mileage & oil temp peaked at 94c :? it predominantly sits around 90c .

Perhaps Bmw should have worked harder at keeping the temps down with a better / bigger fan coming in sooner ?
Are there mods you can do to them to help with engine cooling ?
I guess it also emphasises the importance of good quality clean oil at the right levels along with the right coolant mix .

Not really no. 10w60 is designed to offer stable viscosity at high ttemperatures such as track applications - a side effect is that it's hideously thick when cold, which in turn is anecdotally at least a significant factor in rod bearing wear as technically the oil is too thick to offer decent protection when cold.

125c isn't particularly hot for a 10w60 oil, 145c is where the viscosity starts to change due to thermal breakdown.

Exactly, castrol 10w60 is practically chilling at 125c, its shear value is around 145 as you say. I usually see around 120 on uk tracks but have seen considerably higher at 'autobahn' speeds of 1 hour plus 120-170mph. BMW design their cars to be used in this respect and many are. Rod bearing wear is almost beyond doubt caused by high loads when the oil is cold (and too viscous) and almost certainly has nothing to do with oil being too hot.

It can't be coincidence that tracked S54s suffer more than non tracked

Is that just your opinion with some random anecdotal support or are there some actual facts to back up this statement?

would you say the numbers above are "normal" for most cars on track days ?

Yes

Even at 130c you're still far off the heat level that BMW constitute as too high according to their in car gauge, I'm not sure why anyone has a problem with that? It's not like we don't believe the petrol gauge :roll:

 

[mr wilks]

I wasn't attempting to antagonize the track warriors, I was genuinely posting thoughts & reasoning.
As you were chaps, , once again il leave you with your high horses & pompous attitude yo anyone who doesn't own a sparco jumpsuit .

 

[mmm-five]

My second S54 engine lasted 140,000 miles of road & track use before the rod bearings gave up.

I don’t know how many owners who say they “always warm up the car before thrashing it” actually do what they preach, but I purposely book a hotel further away from the track so that the car has a good 20 minute warm up driving period before getting ‘thrashed’.

I’ve read enough threads claiming one thing or the other kills engines. So mny anecdotal contradictions in fact that I’m totally confused, and will just continue to follow my own ‘scheduled+’ frequency of maintenance…and hope I get similar mileage out of my 3rd engine.

My previous 3 cars got to over 160,000 miles - a modified Corrado VR6 and 2 x e34 M5s - despite regularly (and more frequently than the Z4) thrashing them. But none of my cars have ever been a weekend/track only vehicle, so I’ll assume lots of regular/easy mileage with some thrashing thrown in doesn’t do the engine any harm.


Please take what you want from the above…I’m not here to proselytise

 

[TomK]

I wasn't attempting to antagonize the track warriors, I was genuinely posting thoughts & reasoning.
As you were chaps, , once again il leave you with your high horses & pompous attitude yo anyone who doesn't own a sparco jumpsuit .

You say that but it's not the first time of you insinuating that anyone who tracks their car is some kind of mad man who is inevitably going to blow up his engine. Firstly it really has nothing to do with the op's question so why bring it up and secondly I'm a bit surprised that you clearly feel aggrieved about someone questioning your "thoughts and reasoning" with some other reasoning and also some actual facts about the oil properties and what is normal. If that offends you and you think that's pompous then maybe best to keep those thoughts to yourself?
I'll leave you with your stereotypical views firmly intact no doubt, I have a feeling it's beyond any of us to change them :roll:

 

[Vanne]

limp mode kicks in at 136 degrees. (not sure if thats intended or not, but thats when mine starts cutting fuel). i run mine anywhere from 120-135 on a really hot day. I hope to drop that by 5-8 degrees with the new oil cooler/meth setup.

I have to add, just talking about oil temp wont give you much of an idea about whats going on, you need to add oil PX and water temp to that picture. not too worried about oil temp really, its the PX thats important. esp on initial start and when warmed up.

 

[Mr Tidy]

Thanks everyone.

I was just a bit concerned mine was hardly getting hot enough at 90 degrees but in road use that seems to be the "norm", with a slight increase when you get enough clear road to up the tempo a bit!

 

[Ed Doe]

I wasn't attempting to antagonize the track warriors, I was genuinely posting thoughts & reasoning.
As you were chaps, , once again il leave you with your high horses & pompous attitude yo anyone who doesn't own a sparco jumpsuit .

Well no, it's more just rather irritating that you consistently offer commentary and conjecture on topics of which you know very little about. Some would call it scaremongering :roll:

Just count yourself lucky there are some at least who speak from research and experience rather than assumption and guesswork!

 

[mr wilks]

I wasn't attempting to antagonize the track warriors, I was genuinely posting thoughts & reasoning.
As you were chaps, , once again il leave you with your high horses & pompous attitude yo anyone who doesn't own a sparco jumpsuit .

Well no, it's more just rather irritating that you consistently offer commentary and conjecture on topics of which you know very little about. Some would call it scaremongering :roll:

Just count yourself lucky there are some at least who speak from research and experience rather than assumption and guesswork!

The EdDoe TomK tag team strike again :roll: i wasn't even talkng to either of you so trot off & wash the sand out of your fanny .

 

[Ed Doe]

The EdDoe TomK tag team strike again :roll: i wasn't even talkng to either you so trot off & wash the sand out of your fanny .

No doubt - I'm sure you were taking to people less well informed and less likely to challenge your drivel xxx

I thought you were leaving us to our respective high horses? :lol:

 

[mr wilks]

The EdDoe TomK tag team strike again :roll: i wasn't even talkng to either you so trot off & wash the sand out of your fanny .

No doubt - I'm sure you were taking to people less well informed and less likely to challenge your drivel xxx

I thought you were leaving us to our respective high horses? :lol:

Tell me Ed , i'm curious :wink: all those mods & all the knowledge you are keen to share , , , just how many track miles or trackdays have you covered in your MCoupe ?
You can be specific , I don't think it will take you long to add up.

Just for those who might read this thread & think you know what you are on about .

 

[PDJ]

This is why I removed the center vent and fitted some gauges

 

[mmm-five]

My normal oil temps over the last 24 months have been less than 30°c

 

[Ed Doe]

Tell me Ed , i'm curious :wink: all those mods & all the knowledge you are keen to share , , , just how many track miles or trackdays have you covered in your MCoupe ?
You can be specific , I don't think it will take you long to add up.

Just for those who might read this thread & think you know what you are on about .

No problem - one trackday at Goodwood, call it 4 sessions on track, 12 laps per session, 2.3mile circuit - a round 100miles? My 3.0si for reference I did many more trackdays in, bur that's not the thrust of your point so we'll ignore that.


What then happened during/after my trackday in the M is the reason why I have done some research - the thing that you do to actually learn about engines - rather than drivveling on from your armchair about hearsay and supposition on the forums as you do. My engine suffered a failure causing me try to work out what may have gone wrong and to avoid it in the future. My research included reading into what alternative oil grades might be available, and the advantages and disadvantages of various oil grades, including oem. So you see the fundamental difference here is I've done my reading, so I'm arguing from an informed position. Track miles mean nothing when the subject requires research.

Now please do tell us all more about your oil temperatures in your TT - a totally different engine, using totally different technology, and a different grade of oil, but of course must have relevance here because otherwise you'd not have anything to talk about right?

 

[mr wilks]

Tell me Ed , i'm curious :wink: all those mods & all the knowledge you are keen to share , , , just how many track miles or trackdays have you covered in your MCoupe ?
You can be specific , I don't think it will take you long to add up.

Just for those who might read this thread & think you know what you are on about .

No problem - one trackday at Goodwood, call it 4 sessions on track, 12 laps per session, 2.3mile circuit - a round 100miles? My 3.0si for reference I did many more trackdays in, bur that's not the thrust of your point so we'll ignore that.


What then happened during/after my trackday in the M is the reason why I have done some research - the thing that you do to actually learn about engines - rather than drivveling on from your armchair about hearsay and supposition on the forums as you do. My engine suffered a failure causing me try to work out what may have gone wrong and to avoid it in the future. My research included reading into what alternative oil grades might be available, and the advantages and disadvantages of various oil grades, including oem. So you see the fundamental difference here is I've done my reading, so I'm arguing from an informed position. Track miles mean nothing when the subject requires research.

Now please do tell us all more about your oil temperatures in your TT - a totally different engine, using totally different technology, and a different grade of oil, but of course must have relevance here because otherwise you'd not have anything to talk about right?

How many have you done in

"track miles mean nothing " :roll: so a expert now is someone who reads & researches , i see , that explains your bigoted attitude .

I was asking BMWZ4MC as i know he has other performance vehicles & i think would know the answer .
The whole topic of heat & the failings of the S54 interest me , ive owned 3 , i may at some point own another so its relevant & just so happened that i can monitor the oil temp on dash of current car so i did so over a 3 day drive .
Go back & read it properly , i posted what i thought were relevant points as to possible reasons why the engines suffer known fails ( which to date no one to my knowledge has ever pinpointed exactly )
I was asking about temps of other track cars in case they were significantly lower , i was attempting to educate myself further by researching

The forum has enough with 1 Tomk , it doesn't need another , your sarcastic tones & veiled cryptic digs are wasted on me on me , i don't give a toss , i think you are a knob & so is your chum who thinks he can belittle & bully anyone who questions him until they either give in or simply stop posting .

Sorry i i dared to post on topic i shouldn't have , i will try to remember not to in future , or i'l PM yourself or your sidekick for permission first