Wavetrac LSD differential for 3.0SI

L

Leemarty6

Member
Hi,

As the description I have one for sale as removed from my 3.0Si Coupe Manual, may fit other models please do your research. This cost me nearly 2k with receipts to prove have the original box for it to be shipped or collected in.

Photos pending - please contact me if your interested.

£1000 Ono
 
Jamie-innes said:
And whats the advantages/ difference to this compared to a quaife diff?
Click to expand...

Cheaper than a Quaife. Well should be, although the OP may have had his ticket clipped reading his post :(
 
Hi these are worth more then the Quaiffe please do your research. They have advantages as they still provide traction to the wheel in contact with the ground when the other wheel has none. For example if cornering and one wheel comes up off the ground the power goes to the wheel in contact with the road.

Unfortunately my car was involved in a front end accident and will be going to the scrappers. Removing the diff for sale as it’s worth more then the car

Had it installed for less than 6 months. Comes with a lifetime warranty from Wavetrac installed by Msport in Essex
 
Leemarty6 said:
Hi these are worth more then the Quaiffe please do your research. They have advantages as they still provide traction to the wheel in contact with the ground when the other wheel has none. For example if cornering and one wheel comes up off the ground the power goes to the wheel in contact with the road.
Click to expand...

Apparently not - the subject of pretension on different LSDs been discussed before...

GuidoK said:
TomK said:
Ironically, with a torsen diff (like your quaife) as opposed to a clutch pack type (like Mdiff) the only major relative disadvantage is in the scenario you describe where one wheel looses grip completely (i.e. in the air, or on ice). When 0 torque is sensed on one of the axles the diff is unable to lock and you will get no drive at all.
Click to expand...

Actually that is often said, but not quite true in many cases (maybe prejudgemental theoretical deduction?). If you look at a diff like wavetrack they have a cone system that prevents 0 load. That is how they say 'their diff' is different.
But here comes the funny bit. Quaife diffs have 6 belleville washers inside (not many people know this.. and quaife is not unique in this type of build), creating a pretention on the sun gears (sun gearcogs pushing against the the planetary gear cogs).
So they have system inside that always locks the gears to a certain extend.
This is one of quaife's patents (over 30 years old....) that adresses this type of build (they have more variations on this in different patents):https://www.google.com/patents/EP0130806B1?cl=en
Click to expand...
 
Perjorative said:
Leemarty6 said:
Hi these are worth more then the Quaiffe please do your research. They have advantages as they still provide traction to the wheel in contact with the ground when the other wheel has none. For example if cornering and one wheel comes up off the ground the power goes to the wheel in contact with the road.
Click to expand...

Apparently not - the subject of pretension on different LSDs been discussed before...

GuidoK said:
TomK said:
Ironically, with a torsen diff (like your quaife) as opposed to a clutch pack type (like Mdiff) the only major relative disadvantage is in the scenario you describe where one wheel looses grip completely (i.e. in the air, or on ice). When 0 torque is sensed on one of the axles the diff is unable to lock and you will get no drive at all.
Click to expand...

Actually that is often said, but not quite true in many cases (maybe prejudgemental theoretical deduction?). If you look at a diff like wavetrack they have a cone system that prevents 0 load. That is how they say 'their diff' is different.
But here comes the funny bit. Quaife diffs have 6 belleville washers inside (not many people know this.. and quaife is not unique in this type of build), creating a pretention on the sun gears (sun gearcogs pushing against the the planetary gear cogs).
So they have system inside that always locks the gears to a certain extend.
This is one of quaife's patents (over 30 years old....) that adresses this type of build (they have more variations on this in different patents):https://www.google.com/patents/EP0130806B1?cl=en
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Interesting debate and link to the patent..thank you.. :thumbsup:
 
I think if you look at this video of someone actually testing a wavetrac diff in the situation that their lockup system should work (this is of cours an e46 , but it's the same platform as a z4 and therefore exactly the same diff), the actual torque that is transferred to the other side with one wheel having zero traction is pretty limited. I can't see this giving extreme advantages in track like situations.

[youtube]H3FTG0RVBJU[/youtube]


Having to cope with zero traction situations is always difficult for most LSD's. That's why most LSD's have a form of preload. The wavetrack system also has a spingpack inside that limits their cam system to lock up at 0 traction. They need that spring pack for the cam to flip back under normal driving conditions otherwise the cam system would lock up all the time.
I think that's what happens in the video above, and therefore the wavetrac acts in exactly the same way as a quaife in such conditions (it is that or the friction coefficient of the opposing camring is very very limited; that camring actuates a ring with very small friction surface).

Doesn't mean the Wavetrac is a bad product of course; it's very well made. But I don't think choosing Wavetrac over Quaife just because of that cam actuated clutch that supposedly should give that big of an advantage in zero traction situations like we would experience it with how we use our z4's is a good choice.
What I think (maybe) is better on the Wavetrac is that they advertise with using ARP bolts (made in mexico I believe, but in at least US performance products ARP is a brand name) and Quaife use bolts made in India (as far as I could trace them back). (and so it happens with these bolts (the bolts that hold both halves together) I had quite a few (very big) problems with my Quaife, but I think the current quaife diff is of different design as the one I bought for my z4 10 years ago)

The only LSD type diffs that can cope with the conditions above imho are an electronically acutated LSD, and to a certain extend LSD's that act on speed differences.
So the latter ones are viscous LSD's (that have impellors and a viscous liquid in them with the properties that the liquid gets more solid as it gets stirred more: some mx5's have those for example) and the 'M diff' as it sits in the e46 m3 and z4m. That last one I believe has an oil pump inside that pumps up a hydraulic ram that actuates the clutchpack. The greater the difference in speed between left&right wheel, the harder the oil pump pumps. So driving slowely on that ice pack with these diffs also doesn't work (only an electronic actuated diff can be programmed to do that); there has to be quite a bit of wheelspin to get proper lockup.
Both are of course not an option for the e85 z4.
 
GuidoK said:
R_P_M_ said:
A gripper diff could.
Click to expand...
Why?
Afaik that is still a salisbury type diff with ramp angles (so needs torque to be activated)
Click to expand...

No idea why, just know with one wheel in the air it doesn't spin up the airborne wheel. This is on a clio182 hillclimb car. The quaife on my clio may as well be a open diff when it spins up the unloaded front. I've seen gripper LSDs spinning up the loaded outside front wheel if the ramp angles are set super aggressively.
 
Yeah ok but here we're talking about a specialized track car here (and a FWD at that; the z4 is of course rwd). Who knows what the preload on that diff was?
Both the Quaife and Wavetrack are still diffs that are also very suitable for street use; you have to take that in mind.
What good is a diff in the cars how we use them if parallel parking becomes almost impossible? :lol:
With a salisbury type diff you can create all kinds of radical configurations that work great on track but give an impossible to drive car on normal roads. With an ATB LSD that's not possible.
Also putting a clutch style lsd in a fwd car is very controversial as locking up the front axle can lead to massive understeer. Virtually all fwd superhatches that have come out the last 5-10 years have either an atb lsd type or an electronically controlled lsd in the front. Only one of the worst performing one had a clutch type lsd (opel opc)

Lets put it this way: a radical rxc turbo 500 (a car that laps tracks faster than a mclaren P1) comes stock with a quaife diff.
It can't be that bad then I reckon (of course when you buy such a car everything is an option if they can make it so I'm sure they can also fit a salisbury lsd).

In rwd cars going for either an atb lsd or a clutch type is imho more a matter of how you want the car to behave understeer or oversteer wise.
 
I can’t comment on track use but the Quaife works great on wet / damp / greasy / bumpy roads ...

With now 430nm torque all low down I find it’s helping a lot when booting out of corners... :thumbsup:
 
Just gonna leave my 2p here for anyone who's reading with an interest... I spent 8 months (on and off) reading on different LSD options for my E86. All the discussions on Quaife vs Wavetrac on this forum is very 'whatever I have is best' biased, so just do some proper independent reading and choose for yourself.
 
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