Wagner intercooler

[Rassi]

In preparation of a MHD stage 1+ where it is recommended to upgrade the intercooler, I decided to do just this - ordered the Wagner EVO 1 intercooler, at 499 euro, which is meant to be plug & play. The instructions indicate that it is a 60 minute job, however, without a lift and doing it on improvised ramps it took me closer to 2 hours.

Getting access to the OEM intercooler is frankly a faff, with almost 30 small bolts to be removed, and numerous plastic covers to be pried away. Once there the OEM intercooler is held by two screws, and the charge pipes either side. The Wagner intercooler use the same connections so the clips plug back in. The charge pipes were a royal pain in the a$$ to get seated correctly, while balancing a 10 kilo IC laying on your back but got it done. A small plastic part next to the radiator is to be cut away (so not entirely plug & play), and then the IC can be mounted.

Comparing the two in terms of dimensions and weight, the Wagner IC is about 50 % bigger, and weighs much more as an all steel construction. Will see what the improvements are when the MHD OBD wifi adapter arrives and I actually get to load the stage 1+

 

[JamesUK]

This was on your 35is or X3M?

I'm toying with the idea of a FMIC on my 35is, but MHD seem to indicate it's really only required in very hot countries or for extended high speed runs, like Autobahns

Still waiting for my MHD ios Wifi dongle too!

 

[Anonymous]

I’m perplexed as to why it’s made of steel..apart from being cheaper as aluminium designs transfer heat better than steel ones?

 

[enuff_zed]

Well, I opened this thread hoping to see a Z4 that appeared out of the early morning mist to the strains of 'Ride of the Valkyries' as per Apocalypse Now!

 

[Rassi]

This was on your 35is or X3M?

I'm toying with the idea of a FMIC on my 35is, but MHD seem to indicate it's really only required in very hot countries or for extended high speed runs, like Autobahns

Still waiting for my MHD ios Wifi dongle too!

This was on my Z4.

MHD recommends it for their stage 1+, and the factory IC is rather on the small side, even for stock. As I sold the car 2 weeks after the installation, I could have saved myself the expense....

 

[john-e89]

I’m perplexed as to why it’s made of steel..apart from being cheaper as aluminium designs transfer heat better than steel ones?

Me too. Plus the E89 doesn’t need any more weight thrown on it either... :?

 

[john-e89]

Just had a look out of interest, it’s bar and plate core with cast aluminium @ 9kgs. Looks a good bit of kit to be fair.

 

[Smartbear]

I’m perplexed as to why it’s made of steel..apart from being cheaper as aluminium designs transfer heat better than steel ones?

Me too. Plus the E89 doesn’t need any more weight thrown on it either... :?

Especially over it’s nose
Rob

 

[R.E92]

Any tuned vehicle needs an upgraded intercooler. The stock one is poor and you'll end up with engine knock and throttled performance if you use the power for more than a few seconds.

I'm surprised the N20 guys don't bother. What sort of intake temperatures does a tuned N20 reach during a run?

 

[Anonymous]

Any tuned vehicle needs an upgraded intercooler. The stock one is poor and you'll end up with engine knock and throttled performance if you use the power for more than a few seconds.

I'm surprised the N20 guys don't bother. What sort of intake temperatures does a tuned N20 reach during a run?

The N20 intercooler is the same on all variants ie the 28i at 245BHP has the same as the 18i and 20i..

So at 280bhp ish for a re-map its not a big jump in airflow over the 245 variant..

It seems that since cooling was a biggish issue on the N54 they went out of their way to ensure cool running, better air intake design etc

The N20 variants never (in the UK) run hot and the guys that did tweak em reported some improvements post 280 bhp but then you run into other areas of thermo dynamic stress outside of coolers etc..

As a result AFAIK there are zero FMIC for BMW Z4 E89s N20s..

 

[Rassi]

Just had a look out of interest, it’s bar and plate core with cast aluminium @ 9kgs. Looks a good bit of kit to be fair.

Thanks for clarifying

 

[keving1]

This was on your 35is or X3M?

I'm toying with the idea of a FMIC on my 35is, but MHD seem to indicate it's really only required in very hot countries or for extended high speed runs, like Autobahns

Still waiting for my MHD ios Wifi dongle too!

This was on my Z4.

MHD recommends it for their stage 1+, and the factory IC is rather on the small side, even for stock. As I sold the car 2 weeks after the installation, I could have saved myself the expense....

Did you sell the car with the IC on it, I would be interested in buying it if you still have it?

 

[R.E92]

Any tuned vehicle needs an upgraded intercooler. The stock one is poor and you'll end up with engine knock and throttled performance if you use the power for more than a few seconds.

I'm surprised the N20 guys don't bother. What sort of intake temperatures does a tuned N20 reach during a run?

The N20 intercooler is the same on all variants ie the 28i at 245BHP has the same as the 18i and 20i..

So at 280bhp ish for a re-map its not a big jump in airflow over the 245 variant..

It seems that since cooling was a biggish issue on the N54 they went out of their way to ensure cool running, better air intake design etc

The N20 variants never (in the UK) run hot and the guys that did tweak em reported some improvements post 280 bhp but then you run into other areas of thermo dynamic stress outside of coolers etc..

As a result AFAIK there are zero FMIC for BMW Z4 E89s N20s..

It's not really about the airflow, it's the increased heat in the charge air from the turbos as they spin at higher RPM. Engine temperatures aren't related either, you won't see a reduction in coolant or oil temperatures with the intercooler, it's about reducing the cylinder temperature.

I wouldn't have a tuned car without the ability to monitor things like intake temperatures and knock sensor feedback. On the N54 you start to get a reduction in performance above 50C and you end up at risk of super knocking. They do make upgraded N20 intercoolers, I've seen them on the 328i.

 

[Rassi]

This was on your 35is or X3M?

I'm toying with the idea of a FMIC on my 35is, but MHD seem to indicate it's really only required in very hot countries or for extended high speed runs, like Autobahns

Still waiting for my MHD ios Wifi dongle too!

This was on my Z4.

MHD recommends it for their stage 1+, and the factory IC is rather on the small side, even for stock. As I sold the car 2 weeks after the installation, I could have saved myself the expense....

Did you sell the car with the IC on it, I would be interested in buying it if you still have it?

Unfortunately, yes. 2 weeks after installation, I swapped my 540i and the Z4 for an X3M.

I have a MHD WiFi OBD2 connector for sale though... :innocent:

 

[enuff_zed]

Engine temperatures aren't related either, you won't see a reduction in coolant or oil temperatures with the intercooler, it's about reducing the cylinder temperature.

Given that the purpose of the coolant, and to some extent the oil, is to extract heat from the engine and aid its dissipation, and that the heat is mostly generated within the cylinder as a product of combustion, then I suspect you should see some reduction in those temperatures, but possibly too small to measure on standard car instruments.

However, I do follow your point that the purpose of the IC is to lower the temperature of charge air, creating a denser air which can hold more fuel at the correct fuel/air ratio and therefore carry more energy into the cylinder.

 

[R.E92]

Engine temperatures aren't related either, you won't see a reduction in coolant or oil temperatures with the intercooler, it's about reducing the cylinder temperature.

Given that the purpose of the coolant, and to some extent the oil, is to extract heat from the engine and aid its dissipation, and that the heat is mostly generated within the cylinder as a product of combustion, then I suspect you should see some reduction in those temperatures, but possibly too small to measure on standard car instruments.

However, I do follow your point that the purpose of the IC is to lower the temperature of charge air, creating a denser air which can hold more fuel at the correct fuel/air ratio and therefore carry more energy into the cylinder.

The point is more that reducing the air charge by 10C is nothing compared to the cylinder temperature during combustion. If you want to split hairs then technically it will have an effect but not a meaningful one.

The N54 has no problems with cooling so I imagine the N20 will be the same. It's designed to run hot and has a dynamic thermostat to achieve a different coolant temperature depending on ambient conditions.

 

[Anonymous]

Any tuned vehicle needs an upgraded intercooler. The stock one is poor and you'll end up with engine knock and throttled performance if you use the power for more than a few seconds.

I'm surprised the N20 guys don't bother. What sort of intake temperatures does a tuned N20 reach during a run?

The N20 intercooler is the same on all variants ie the 28i at 245BHP has the same as the 18i and 20i..

So at 280bhp ish for a re-map its not a big jump in airflow over the 245 variant..

It seems that since cooling was a biggish issue on the N54 they went out of their way to ensure cool running, better air intake design etc

The N20 variants never (in the UK) run hot and the guys that did tweak em reported some improvements post 280 bhp but then you run into other areas of thermo dynamic stress outside of coolers etc..

As a result AFAIK there are zero FMIC for BMW Z4 E89s N20s..

It's not really about the airflow, it's the increased heat in the charge air from the turbos as they spin at higher RPM. Engine temperatures aren't related either, you won't see a reduction in coolant or oil temperatures with the intercooler, it's about reducing the cylinder temperature.

I wouldn't have a tuned car without the ability to monitor things like intake temperatures and knock sensor feedback. On the N54 you start to get a reduction in performance above 50C and you end up at risk of super knocking. They do make upgraded N20 intercoolers, I've seen them on the 328i.

You've sped read my points..

Yes the turbo does compress the air resulting in heat increase through adiabatic compression ,however in the case of the N20 the effects as stated in temperate climates is not significant at the power increases most 'standard' tunes use.. so most tuners place a FMIC 3 or 4 steps down on the order of things to do to tweak your engine..

https://bmwtuning.co/bmw-n20-tuning-guide/

Most heat from turbos comes primarily through the act of compression not spinning faster..according to this article.

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijrm/2012/625453/

The issue with many engines is the ability to conduct heat away from the local area around the cylinder head / piston / exhaust port..

The view from many on the N20 is that beyond 300bhp ish the heat simply can't be conducted away from the local area despite the fact that overall the cooling systems do a much better job overall..that is more of a design issue around coolant flow around the heads..

On the Audi A7 I had with its 315bhp V6 TDi the reason Audi let it run 60 BHP more than the previous V6 was because of a much cleverer two speed coolant flow across the head..

I stated that AFAIK I couldn't find a FMIC for an E89 N20.. there are ones for 3 series not E89s..

The degree of monitoring depends on the level of tune and the sophistication of the underlying control systems..

The N20 benefits from a later design of cylinder cooling jacket and a later version of cylinder head design based on the N55 not N54.

In addition a later version of knock control keeps a better reign on those matters..

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e89-z4-sdrive20i-roa/wiring-functional-info/power-train/engine-electronics-mevd/knock-control/F7vgEPds

So yes its great to see lots of parameters within the constraints of the power increase ambitions for this class of engine its not required.

 

[R.E92]

That article from hindawe is a good read but they are only evaluating performance within the efficient operation area so it's not a surprise that they concluded only small heat transfer. On tuned engines they quite often push the turbos way out of that area, you can see it when people move from stock turbos to larger upgraded turbos, the stock turbos on the N54 produce a lot of heat and the intake temps skyrocket when trying to maintain 20PSI, the upgraded one will manage to generate the same pressure in the intake but at much lower speeds and lower charge temperatures.

I think you'd benefit from monitoring even on a stock car, it's not difficult or expensive and is the only way of knowing if the engine is healthy or not. Once an error code pops up or a strange noise develops it's already too late.

 

[JamesUK]

I have a MHD WiFi OBD2 connector for sale though... :innocent:

Tempted..... although I do have one on order.

Feel free to PM me a price to the uk


How's the X3M after the 35is? My boss bought one last year, so there's a bit of banter about who's car is better, faster, fatter etc

 

[Rassi]

I have a MHD WiFi OBD2 connector for sale though... :innocent:

Tempted..... although I do have one on order.

Feel free to PM me a price to the uk


How's the X3M after the 35is? My boss bought one last year, so there's a bit of banter about who's car is better, faster, fatter etc

PMed