VW America. Oops!!!

There's clearly a financial aspect here for VAG group resulting from regulator fines, class action lawsuit provision, share price fall etc. The press suggests they've set aside $7bn but that may not turn out to be anywhere near enough. The political ramifications may be a lot bigger though.

Frankly this company has been allowed to grow too large, amass too many brands and too large a share of the market and it needs to be broken up. This sort of mass fraud done with the full knowledge and presumably instruction of the supervisory board means it is no longer credible as a company in its current form. There is little chance of that happening though whilst Germany holds so much power in the Eurozone.

This isn't the first VAG scandal in recent years either.

The question is...have other manufacturers done the same thing? Time will tell.

How do the VW/Audi etc owners amongst you feel knowing the company has lied to you and claimed their cars are cleaner than they actually are?
 
I'm not fussed because mine is petrol and rented :)

Supposedly the group that discovered the lie tested an X5 at the same time and it passed with flying colours so I'm not sure how wide spread it is. Either that or the BMW system is much more intelligent (I suspect it's just cleaner).

From what i've read so far it doesn't affect all VAG diesels or even all 4 pot VAG diesels. It's the smaller cars where they didn't fit a urea tank.

It's going to be a massive fine but you have to question how the US prioritise these things. GM get a $900m slap on the wrist for a defect which kills 174 people and VAG get fined $18bn for making it a little more smoggy in LA (yeah, i know that's playing it down massively to serve my own purposes).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2015/09/17/why-general-motors-900-million-fine-for-a-deadly-defect-is-just-a-slap-on-the-wrist/
 
I see it's risen to 11m vehicles worldwide. That's one big bill and PR headache for a decade headed their way.

Don't the press love making stats understandable to the public - The VW share price has dropped the company value more than the total value of Peugeot & Renault combined :)
 
original guvnor said:
The question is...have other manufacturers done the same thing? Time will tell.

How do the VW/Audi etc owners amongst you feel knowing the company has lied to you and claimed their cars are cleaner than they actually are?
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Lets be blunt , there's no one with half a brain who would look at the sales bummpphhhh of a new car & believe it :? & if they do then they probably shouldn't be driving or be left alone with a knife & fork

I love VAG cars but then ive never (or will ever ) bought a new one so i get to enjoy a well built car designed to cover large miles with ease & relatively cheap to run for minimal outlay
Lets hope it decimates the used car values then i can sample some more :driving:
 
original guvnor said:
How do the VW/Audi etc owners amongst you feel knowing the company has lied to you and claimed their cars are cleaner than they actually are?
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I couldn't care less really.... Mines a petrol :P

Sure some will be pi55ed about it though. Especially if they genuinely bought it as being sold as having low emissions
 
There's a very serious aspect to this though. These cars have been emitting up to 40 times the toxic NOX emissions claimed. 11m of them.

If you have children (or children with asthma) you should be very concerned by that.
 
If one buys a car based on the emissions figured (not guilty your honour)... you may have chosen a VW based on the official figures... ergo giving your hard earned to a company that has lied to you.

that is a form a fraud, and should quite rightly be punished.

I find it incredible that a company this size can think themselves above the laws and system of the countries they choose to do business in. Setting aside money to deal with the fines - indicates to me that they knew they would get found out and probably budgeted for it - so hit them even harder...
 
original guvnor said:
There's a very serious aspect to this though. These cars have been emitting up to 40 times the toxic NOX emissions claimed. 11m of them.

If you have children (or children with asthma) you should be very concerned by that.
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All fair points Og but until its confirmed that only VAG are guilty of this then you have to treat all car companies with the same regard
Until then i will assume they are all up to the same tricks
 
mr wilks said:
original guvnor said:
There's a very serious aspect to this though. These cars have been emitting up to 40 times the toxic NOX emissions claimed. 11m of them.

If you have children (or children with asthma) you should be very concerned by that.
Click to expand...

All fair points Og but until its confirmed that only VAG are guilty of this then you have to treat all car companies with the same regard
Until then i will assume they are all up to the same tricks
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They all are to a degree as we know the quoted figures aren't achievable. Even that alone makes the cars look cleaner than they actually are in real life.
 
Presumably the claimed CO2 emissions will also be wrong? Does that mean the UK government will be able to claim, from VAG, any additional company car tax that would've been owed by company car drivers if the actual CO2 had been declared?
 
original guvnor said:
Presumably the claimed CO2 emissions will also be wrong? Does that mean the UK government will be able to claim, from VAG, any additional company car tax that would've been owed by company car drivers if the actual CO2 had been declared?
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You'd also have to assume the cars have been incorrectly banded of RFL & perhaps the governments will want rebanding (devalueing certain used models possibly ? ) & even the shortfall paid :o
 
What I have deemed so far from reading about this on a few forums.

1. The US NOX emission threshold in "green" states such as California is extremely low (something like 33g/km as opposed to 88g/km in the UK). The UK place a greater emphasis on CO2 emissions.

2. NOX and CO2 are related in the sense that one goes up when the other goes down. So low NOX means higher CO2. The US emissions tests are skewed to favour high displacement low compression engines (so a 6l V8 petrol is fine)

3. In the UK a car cannot be rebanded in terms of tax after it's initial classification. Many fleet commercial vehicles are remapped to add limiters and instal eco maps resulting in lower CO2. This is however a side effect as the vehicles cannot be reclassified even if brand new. As far as i'm aware the UK government would need to change the law or find a loop hole.

4. This all has nothing to do with MPG figures. It's more or less like the whole Lance Armstrong thing only with cars.

This is obviously a massive thing but how it all pans out will be interesting. The US and possibly eastern countries (depending on what their emissions laws are) will no doubt happily roger Germany (cynics believe the recently opened VW Russian engine plant has more than a little to do with this). But will Europe be so keen to damage it's own economic giant? The bigger ramifications for the Eurozone are actually quite scary.
 
I have a petrol so don't care.... and I find details it hard to believe it is limited just to VW... they are just the first to admit it.

The airborne NO2 levels in major cities is growing annually. .. yet more and more new more efficient cars are coming out. In Europe where diesels account for almost 50% of the cars something doesn't add up!

Also the timing seems a little suspicious that VW recently overtook GM in terms of volumes of new car sales... and this scandal comes out.... same thing a few years back with Toyota and it's brake scandal. .... not saying it's intentional but doubt they have only just uncovered this!
 
Mowflow I am pretty sure the government wouldn't need to change the law to reclassify a car that had been fraudulently classified in the first place.

Aquazi - an interesting point about VW overtaking GM. The reason NOX levels are rising is because the EU test gives a false NOX result. There's already been tests done that prove in real world driving that most of these modern, clean diesels emit many, many more NOX than their "official" laboratory style tests suggest.

Oh and at the moment it is only VW who have been caught absolutely red-handed and the CEO has not surprisingly fallen on his sword. I don't think the US authorities will have stopped there. Every other manufacturer will now be under scrutiny.

I think this could be the end of diesel engines.
 
original guvnor said:
"Every other manufacturer will now be under scrutiny".
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Except domestic brands maybe, I'm thinking Ford/GM etc?

I'm not saying that VW shouldn't be punished but I cant help but the penalty doesn't fit the crime here, I've seen a fine of £24k per vehicle mentioned, probably more than the car cost when new?, everybody knows that the majority of a cars pollution comes from the manufacturing of it.

Who would be the beneficiary of any fines anyway?
 
I wonder also if this affects VW group's widely expected announcement of participation in Formula 1 (according to EJ anyway).
 
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