VagBremTechnic Big Brake Kit for E85/E86 Z4 'M' models

[R60BBA]

Cheers for that!

I’m still stuck between the Vagbremtechnic kit and this one from FreakyParts: https://freakyparts.co.uk/products/bmw-e46-m3-brembo-4-pot-big-brake-kit

I've just had a quick chat with Stephen and Mike from Vagbremtechnic and the Megane Brembo calipers use a smaller piston, so will be a little more 'switch like', and won't give that same feel as what the Vagbremtechnic kit does using the Aston / TT RS 8J Calipers.

Interesting, have you got the OE DB9 Brembo part number for the Vagbremtechnic caliper?

 

[nfbr]

I've messaged you a list of the OE numbers.

 

[hopz121]

Interesting so this Caliper isn’t the same as the freaky parts one? Does it had larger pistons then?

OP have you got the 345 CSL Disc or do you have a 360mm Disc?

Thanks

 

[hopz121]

Hi NFBR

Another question for you, are they interested in making this kit with the 360mm E92 M3 Disc?

I am still looking for a BBK and this is still an interesting proposition but I really wanted the bigger disc to match.

Will this Caliper accommodate the bigger disc (I think it is wider too)

Thanks

Ash

 

[MrPT]

I’ve got the normal, 345mm Z4M/CSL discs.

Interesting so this Caliper isn’t the same as the freaky parts one? Does it had larger pistons then?

Yes, its 40/44 vs 40/40 for the Renaultsport caliper. For a 4 pot it’s pretty big, but it’s still close to half the weight of the stock caliper! In total there is about 5kg unsprung mass saving with an upgrade like this.

 

[nfbr]

Another question for you, are they interested in making this kit with the 360mm E92 M3 Disc?
I am still looking for a BBK and this is still an interesting proposition but I really wanted the bigger disc to match.

From what I understand the E92 disc isn’t an appropriate fit on the E46 hub.
There is however a 362mm 2-piece version available here:
https://www.vagbremtechnic.com/front-2-piece-362x32mm-disc-caliper-carrier-kit-allows-fitment-of-4-piston-aston-martin-db9-or-reversed-audi-ttrs-rs3-brembo-calipers-di0018/

This uses an AP Racing rotor and fitting kit, along with bespoke VBT bells.

 

[hopz121]

Another question for you, are they interested in making this kit with the 360mm E92 M3 Disc?
I am still looking for a BBK and this is still an interesting proposition but I really wanted the bigger disc to match.

From what I understand the E92 disc isn’t an appropriate fit on the E46 hub.
There is however a 362mm 2-piece version available here:
https://www.vagbremtechnic.com/front-2-piece-362x32mm-disc-caliper-carrier-kit-allows-fitment-of-4-piston-aston-martin-db9-or-reversed-audi-ttrs-rs3-brembo-calipers-di0018/

This uses an AP Racing rotor and fitting kit, along with bespoke VBT bells.

The E92 360mm Disc fits fine on the hub of an E46 M3, people use this and the F80 M3 Disc in quite a few applications on the E46.

Is it possible for them to take a look into this? This is the sort of set up I am after. The 2 piece version looks good but the cost increases a fair amount going this route.

Thanks

 

[nfbr]

The E92 360mm Disc fits fine on the hub of an E46 M3, people use this and the F80 M3 Disc in quite a few applications on the E46.

Is it possible for them to take a look into this? This is the sort of set up I am after. The 2 piece version looks good but the cost increases a fair amount going this route.

Good info, Unfortunately the cost to re-develop a kit from scratch isn't really appropriate at this point.
The Hat Heights are different, which means the offset of the caliper would have to change, not just a case of making a taller bracket.

From what I can see the swept are is quite a bit bigger on the E92 M3 disc also, which means that the pad contact area would be too small, leaving an amount of unswept area on the disc.

 

[hopz121]

The E92 360mm Disc fits fine on the hub of an E46 M3, people use this and the F80 M3 Disc in quite a few applications on the E46.

Is it possible for them to take a look into this? This is the sort of set up I am after. The 2 piece version looks good but the cost increases a fair amount going this route.

Good info, Unfortunately the cost to re-develop a kit from scratch isn't really appropriate at this point.
The Hat Heights are different, which means the offset of the caliper would have to change, not just a case of making a taller bracket.

From what I can see the swept are is quite a bit bigger on the E92 M3 disc also, which means that the pad contact area would be too small, leaving an amount of unswept area on the disc.

Oh ok not to worry.

Freaky Parts are hoping to develop a kit and they have built on for the E92 M3 it’s just a shame they don’t use Calipers as good as these.

Thanks for the info though and reply I really appreciate it. Looks like I’ll have to save up for some AP’s

 

[Beedub]

john-e89 is going to buy this kit.....

any up to date pics of cars fitted with this kit, sorry if this has been posted, didnt want to go back through the thread!

 

[FreakyParts]

Afternoon guys, someone pointed me to this thread as you were discussing some of our brake kits.
You're right in saying the RS Brembo calipers run 4x40mm pistons, which is very slightly smaller than the Aston calipers, but in real world terms the difference is negligible.
The OEM setup uses a 60mm piston giving a total area of 2827mm^2
The RS Brembo uses 4x40mm pistons giving a total area of 2513mm^2 (11% smaller)

How this actually translates on the road is a more responsive pedal giving better initial bite, but 90% of drivers wouldn't pick up in a 10% difference in pedal movement.
We've also had this kit fitted to an E92 M3 and tested by a professional race driver and instructor around Brands Hatch. His feedback was excellent. He said the brakes gave more confidence and lasted the day, rather than needing to come in and cool off after 3 or 4 laps.

The kit works with the 345mm CSL front discs, and we're more than happy making a set of adaptors for these to work with the 360mm E9x M3 front discs or F8x M4 380mm front discs.

As an alternative, we're currently doing a group buy on a kit we're designing for the E9x front and rear using AP Racing 6 pot and 4 pot calipers. I'm sure we can look at using these for the E46 and E85/86 also... Details on the AP kits are here: https://freakyparts.co.uk/collections/bmw-e9x-m3-brakes

Feel free to ask if you've got any questions

 

[R60BBA]

Afternoon guys, someone pointed me to this thread as you were discussing some of our brake kits.
You're right in saying the RS Brembo calipers run 4x40mm pistons, which is very slightly smaller than the Aston calipers, but in real world terms the difference is negligible.
The OEM setup uses a 60mm piston giving a total area of 2827mm^2
The RS Brembo uses 4x40mm pistons giving a total area of 2513mm^2 (11% smaller)

How this actually translates on the road is a more responsive pedal giving better initial bite, but 90% of drivers wouldn't pick up in a 10% difference in pedal movement.
We've also had this kit fitted to an E92 M3 and tested by a professional race driver and instructor around Brands Hatch. His feedback was excellent. He said the brakes gave more confidence and lasted the day, rather than needing to come in and cool off after 3 or 4 laps.

The kit works with the 345mm CSL front discs, and we're more than happy making a set of adaptors for these to work with the 360mm E9x M3 front discs or F8x M4 380mm front discs.

As an alternative, we're currently doing a group buy on a kit we're designing for the E9x front and rear using AP Racing 6 pot and 4 pot calipers. I'm sure we can look at using these for the E46 and E85/86 also... Details on the AP kits are here: https://freakyparts.co.uk/collections/bmw-e9x-m3-brakes

Feel free to ask if you've got any questions

Thanks for the clarification.

However I have 2 questions:

• Is a spacer needed to clear this kit on an E46 M3 with CMWheels CSLs (fronts: 19 x 8.5 ET38)?

• Are the calipers only available in red?

Cheers

 

[MrPT]

Bumping this as I've been exchanging some PMs with philipw and he's found the proper Brembo part numbers for the Aston/Audi front calipers:

20.8427.03 - equivalent to Aston 4G43-2C462-DA (left, red)
20.8427.04 - equivalent to Aston 4G43-2C463-DA (right, red)

I've also updated the dead image links for my install of the VBT kit.

 

[philipw]

Bumping this as I've been exchanging some PMs with philipw and he's found the proper Brembo part numbers for the Aston/Audi front calipers:

20.8427.03 - equivalent to Aston 4G43-2C462-DA (left, red)
20.8427.04 - equivalent to Aston 4G43-2C463-DA (right, red)

I've also updated the dead image links for my install of the VBT kit.

Now fitted with Hawk HPS 2.0 pads. I am using 12mm spacers however they may fit without.

From a quick road test, initial bite is quicker and more importantly for me pressing the brake pedal results in a more progressive application of the brakes. Keen to try them on track as the benefits would be more apparent, I am hoping temperature will be better controlled as I found the stock calipers generated an immense amount of heat concentrated to a small area.

 

[Beedub]

Very nice!

 

[MrPT]

Now fitted with Hawk HPS 2.0 pads. I am using 12mm spacers however they may fit without.

From a quick road test, initial bite is quicker and more importantly for me pressing the brake pedal results in a more progressive application of the brakes. Keen to try them on track as the benefits would be more apparent, I am hoping temperature will be better controlled as I found the stock calipers generated an immense amount of heat concentrated to a small area.

Aha, excellent work! Interested to hear how you get on. I haven’t gotten anywhere near the limits of mine (no track time yet) with just stock pads and fluid.

One thing I’d like to do is code out the emergency brake assist. They are, as you say, more progressive but I think getting rid of this will make braking completely predictable in all conditions.

 

[philipw]

Now fitted with Hawk HPS 2.0 pads. I am using 12mm spacers however they may fit without.

From a quick road test, initial bite is quicker and more importantly for me pressing the brake pedal results in a more progressive application of the brakes. Keen to try them on track as the benefits would be more apparent, I am hoping temperature will be better controlled as I found the stock calipers generated an immense amount of heat concentrated to a small area.

Aha, excellent work! Interested to hear how you get on. I haven’t gotten anywhere near the limits of mine (no track time yet) with just stock pads and fluid.

One thing I’d like to do is code out the emergency brake assist. They are, as you say, more progressive but I think getting rid of this will make braking completely predictable in all conditions.

Will do, I am running the same setup (Hawk pads/Motul 660/braided lines) as I had with the floating calipers. I found I was still getting brake fade so hoping I will see an improvement on that front.

Do you mean dynamic brake control? It does unsettle the car by drastically increasing braking pressure when quickly getting off the throttle and onto the brakes.

It is easily deactivated using NCS Expert/NCS dummy.
You need to find BB_RAB and select Nicht active

 

[philipw]

Should anyone need caliper part numbers.

DB9/Vantage
20.8427.04
20.8427.03

or

Audi RS3 8P/TTRS 8J
8J0615107
8J0615108

 

[MrPT]

Do you mean dynamic brake control? It does unsettle the car by drastically increasing braking pressure when quickly getting off the throttle and onto the brakes.

It is easily deactivated using NCS Expert/NCS dummy.
You need to find BB_RAB and select Nicht active

Thanks. Got the kit just haven’t gotten round to it.

It’s a strange feature for a sports car to have. Just thoughtlessly carried over from the rest of the range, maybe.

 

[ga41]

It's for help in emergency stops basically. If you go really sharply from throttle to braking it assumes that you're about to crash and assists you by braking even harder than you did. It's very annoying on the track though...