VagBremTechnic Big Brake Kit for E85/E86 Z4 'M' models
- Thread starter nfbr
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Calling MrPT!!
Right , got my 5mm spacer on , along with longer bolts . No issues whatsoever.
Please see below pics . It would be massively helpful to me if you could take a measurement from the same spot on your setup . I’m hoping there’s a 1mm difference. I’m measuring 56/57mm from disc to the inside of the spoke ( see pic with what spoke )
Really appreciate if it’s at all possible
Right , got my 5mm spacer on , along with longer bolts . No issues whatsoever.
Please see below pics . It would be massively helpful to me if you could take a measurement from the same spot on your setup . I’m hoping there’s a 1mm difference. I’m measuring 56/57mm from disc to the inside of the spoke ( see pic with what spoke )
Really appreciate if it’s at all possible
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Bump for MrPT 
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MrPT said:
Ah that’s great , really appreciate it
Now know that the calipers will fit
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I’ll just be buying the whole kit from vagbremtechnic
Unless you know of another way of getting calipers cheaper ? Don’t really fancy 2nd hand units ... never know what you’re going to get !
I’m mainly looking for asthestics.... just don’t look right with the standard calipers :roll:
Unless you know of another way of getting calipers cheaper ? Don’t really fancy 2nd hand units ... never know what you’re going to get !
I’m mainly looking for asthestics.... just don’t look right with the standard calipers :roll:
Bodyboarder said:I’ll just be buying the whole kit from vagbremtechnic
Unless you know of another way of getting calipers cheaper ? Don’t really fancy 2nd hand units ... never know what you’re going to get !
I’m mainly looking for asthestics.... just don’t look right with the standard calipers :roll:
Unless you are prepared to wait a long time for a trashed pair to come up on ebay, then I think buying from VBT is your best bet. They get them at a great price.
VBT may have added this info to the kit now, but in case they haven't, the torque values you need for the bolts are:
Caliper to carrier: 75lb/ft
Hub to carrier: 65lb/ft
Just remember you need to bleed both sides of each caliper now! Took me a while to figure that one out. :roll:
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Yes probably just get them from VBT .... and yes inners then outer from memory?
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Also interested in people’s opinions on what colour calipers I should go for ?
Monaco blue
Monaco blue
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Ah good info with the ftlb numbers
MrPT said:Here are some pics from my prep/install - apologies for those on slow connections! Many thanks to Al ([ref]nfbr[/ref]) from Awesome GTI and Mike from VagBremTechnic for answering all my questions.
Went for the adaptors, HEL lines, new discs, calipers in red and Pagid pads. I guess my main motivation for the purchase was because I wasn't very happy with the stock pedal feel (having recently driven's a friend's 997 in anger and been fairly shocked at the difference), but looks were certainly a factor too, as was the chance to try these on a Z4M for the first time.
It’s been nearly 2 years since you installed the Vagbremtechic kit.
Would be grateful if you could share a ‘24 month review’ of it.
Cheers
Not a huge amount extra to report. I've done 7000 miles on them and they are still performing as they were when I first fitted them. They have similar stopping power to stock but with better feel. I know that feel is subjective but, in simple terms, they are less "on/off" than the stock brakes and offer more front axle stability when you are repeatedly braking hard. I have no doubt that this is because they maintain the overall geometry of disc vs pad vs carrier better when stressed, which is exactly what you'd hope for when upgrading from floating calipers.
I would normally have done a couple of big road trips in two years, but it was just the one trip to LM24 2017 in this car, and then I had the pleasure of sharing an M2 and a Cayman GTS (981) for a week in the Pyrenees and Vercors last year - a useful opportunity for comparison! My car has a similar brake feel to the M2 - a bit overservoed but ultimately a big step up from something like a normal 3 series or non-M E85/E86. Apart from the usual rumble of the drilled rotors, there hasn't been a time (in either the Z4M or the M2) I can remember when the brake feel/performance reduced significantly; even when barreling into successive downhill switchbacks.
The Cayman is ahead in almost every way - you can hit the brakes harder and later and the car just gets up on its front paws and then dances out of the corner (even if you get on the power way too early!). It's not just the lightness and balance of the thing either - the brakes are more progressive at the top and more firm at the end of their travel than the BMW brakes (with stock pads and fluids). It's hard to describe, but it almost feels like you're putting a foot out onto the road to stop the car. Loads of feedback and every mm of pedal travel seems to make a difference. I can totally understand why good examples of the GTS are still £60k - a really special car.
Anyways... back to the Zed and the VBTs! They clean up really easily if you have a wheel off. Just a quick wipe all over and they're back to glorious red. Mechanically they are sound - the bolt torque is holding and the HEL lines are like new still. They get a fair amount of comments - from garages and at meets - but not excessively so. I think a lot of people, even those in the know, don't realise that they are aftermarket. They are a bit like CSLs, in that respect.
Minor gripes?
- They are big calipers that require at least a 10mm spacer to clear CSLs. They would be easier to accommodate behind other alloys, e.g. Apex EC-7s, in a way that wouldn't make tyre fitment so critical
- The pads are big and expensive
- Emergency brake assist is still intrusive and a BBK can't really help with that
- The Brembo calipers aren't as common on the secondhand market as much as those from the Cayman/996, although they are slightly more common than the BMW Performance calipers (in my experience - YMMV)
- Very little additional stopping power vs the stock brakes (I'm sure we're massively tyre limited; even with >225mm fronts on)
- Still unproven on track, but I suspect they will be superb with the right pads/fluids
- The bolts are mild steel so the heads rust a little
- They are a bit fiddly to bleed if you are used to single pot calipers
- No matching rear. A Brembo 31/33 is the hypothetical 4-pot that will match our master cylinder perfectly
A repost of some of the pics that got dropped off the thread:
R60BBA - cheers for asking. I've got a South Wales weekender coming up so I might have some more to report back on after that.
I would normally have done a couple of big road trips in two years, but it was just the one trip to LM24 2017 in this car, and then I had the pleasure of sharing an M2 and a Cayman GTS (981) for a week in the Pyrenees and Vercors last year - a useful opportunity for comparison! My car has a similar brake feel to the M2 - a bit overservoed but ultimately a big step up from something like a normal 3 series or non-M E85/E86. Apart from the usual rumble of the drilled rotors, there hasn't been a time (in either the Z4M or the M2) I can remember when the brake feel/performance reduced significantly; even when barreling into successive downhill switchbacks.
The Cayman is ahead in almost every way - you can hit the brakes harder and later and the car just gets up on its front paws and then dances out of the corner (even if you get on the power way too early!). It's not just the lightness and balance of the thing either - the brakes are more progressive at the top and more firm at the end of their travel than the BMW brakes (with stock pads and fluids). It's hard to describe, but it almost feels like you're putting a foot out onto the road to stop the car. Loads of feedback and every mm of pedal travel seems to make a difference. I can totally understand why good examples of the GTS are still £60k - a really special car.
Anyways... back to the Zed and the VBTs! They clean up really easily if you have a wheel off. Just a quick wipe all over and they're back to glorious red. Mechanically they are sound - the bolt torque is holding and the HEL lines are like new still. They get a fair amount of comments - from garages and at meets - but not excessively so. I think a lot of people, even those in the know, don't realise that they are aftermarket. They are a bit like CSLs, in that respect.
Minor gripes?
- They are big calipers that require at least a 10mm spacer to clear CSLs. They would be easier to accommodate behind other alloys, e.g. Apex EC-7s, in a way that wouldn't make tyre fitment so critical
- The pads are big and expensive
- Emergency brake assist is still intrusive and a BBK can't really help with that
- The Brembo calipers aren't as common on the secondhand market as much as those from the Cayman/996, although they are slightly more common than the BMW Performance calipers (in my experience - YMMV)
- Very little additional stopping power vs the stock brakes (I'm sure we're massively tyre limited; even with >225mm fronts on)
- Still unproven on track, but I suspect they will be superb with the right pads/fluids
- The bolts are mild steel so the heads rust a little
- They are a bit fiddly to bleed if you are used to single pot calipers
- No matching rear. A Brembo 31/33 is the hypothetical 4-pot that will match our master cylinder perfectly
A repost of some of the pics that got dropped off the thread:
R60BBA - cheers for asking. I've got a South Wales weekender coming up so I might have some more to report back on after that.
R60BBA said:
I've just had a quick chat with Stephen and Mike from Vagbremtechnic and the Megane Brembo calipers use a smaller piston, so will be a little more 'switch like', and won't give that same feel as what the Vagbremtechnic kit does using the Aston / TT RS 8J Calipers.
Yes, they have 40mm pistons so the area is about 11% down on stock. This is similar to the BMW Performance calipers and people report decent results with them as a front-only BBK, but it's not ideal if you want to maintain the current pedal length and force.
From the pics, the brackets don't look as well engineered or finished as the VBT ones (it looks like they are one piece and painted instead of anodised). The pistons are also staggered in the Aston Martin/TTRS caliper, whereas the RenaultSport ones aren't. Suspect this is ok unless RS Meganes have a problem with uneven pad wear?!
They look like decent value and I can see how they'll work well for an E46. They are smaller but you're switching to 345mm discs so the overall balance could remain about the same. They would probably give you more wheel options too.
From the pics, the brackets don't look as well engineered or finished as the VBT ones (it looks like they are one piece and painted instead of anodised). The pistons are also staggered in the Aston Martin/TTRS caliper, whereas the RenaultSport ones aren't. Suspect this is ok unless RS Meganes have a problem with uneven pad wear?!
They look like decent value and I can see how they'll work well for an E46. They are smaller but you're switching to 345mm discs so the overall balance could remain about the same. They would probably give you more wheel options too.