i think the price bracket categories above z4mc territory become much broader. there's probably one for 25-40k, and one again for 45-60k, then above that you can get a host of similar cars where prices vary wildly and the cars are largely the same (age/milage becomes more important rather than brand/model/stats)
Upgrade from Z4M .. impossible?
- Thread starter jimmybell
- Start date
I think it depends what you want. If you want a faster road car the only way is to buy one with a more useable power curve, unfortunately moving away from NA. Its all about mid range and the dervs and hot hatches have it in spades so specifically for the road they are arguable 'better' cars for being quicker on the public roads.
The S54 is a great engine as it delivers 80% of torque from 2000rpm but it doesn't have a great deal of torque. Fantastic for an NA engine, but mid range with hot hatches they are quicker and they pull away until you start getting the S54 into its stride but by the time you hit 6800rpm or peak torque your doing much more than the legal limit even in second. But being used to having a hot hatch as well as the M they are certainly the poor relation and the front wheel drive nature and little engines is fun but its just nothing like the big NA rear wheel drive combinations.
So for everyday usable performance you can't beat the twin turbo engines like in the 35i, 235, 135 and new M3. But they are lack lustre, effortless, sound a bit lame and manufactured and the driver just isn't involved. The appeal of the NA engines is that you have to work for the performance, and when you do the feeling is immense and what your after!! So if you want a new car the only manufactures making NA engines in sportscars currently Merc AMG C63 but the new one is meant to rival BMs twin 6, Porsche Cayman/911, Ferrari and lamborghini. There are plenty of turbos and supers around.
But thats all relative, I like the old cars that don't have too many computer components keeping you on the road. A car that barks at you and tells you when your pushing it too far and that sensation comes through your seat rather than a flashing light on the dash therefore a car that isn't bothered about putting you in a hedge.
Cars on my list:
14-23k
BMW E46 M3 just such an awesome car, has everything you want in spades + 4 seats. Great looking car and fairly affordable. Pulls the heartstrings as it was my dads first M car lots of good memories.
BMW Z3M Coupe - would love one they are very niche just like the Z4M and thats the appeal
BMW Z4M Coupe - because its hard to beat might buy another
BMW E90 M3 - V8 with 4 doors perfect for carrying everything at warp speed love the look of the 4 door too and that V8 :wub:
BMW E63 M6 - I love the look and that engine!!! Also the interior is one of the nicest places to be. But scary if anything goes wrong.
Audi RS4 V8 - same as above but with a nicer more sporting interior
Porsche 996 Carrera 4S - might not be the best 911 but I love that wide body looks gorgeous, cheap (for a porsche), goes like stink and sounds amazing with the sports exhaust.
Bucket list £30-45+k (quite a way off for me)
BMW E46 M3 CSL - obvious. IMO one of the best cars ever made and would be in my forever garage.
997 Carrera S - Probably one of the best affordable sports/super cars available also because I love them, and hopefully my dad might sell me his
997 Turbo/S - again although the only turbo on the list I love them.
Audi R8 - I don't like the look of them neither the interior just doesn't seem special but it is a world class super car
Jag F type coupe - Gorgeous but unlikely to be <45k for a while
My plan is to buy a house first…. lol! Buy a cheap E46/E90 320D or R56 Mini Cooper S to commute with and then try and pick up an E46 M3 or Z3M Coupe depending whats available. Then in time buy a 997 Carrera 4s or S and I would be very content with that combo and sell the daily and buy the Mini Cooper S thats we've just taken delivery of at the end of its 3 year term.
The S54 is a great engine as it delivers 80% of torque from 2000rpm but it doesn't have a great deal of torque. Fantastic for an NA engine, but mid range with hot hatches they are quicker and they pull away until you start getting the S54 into its stride but by the time you hit 6800rpm or peak torque your doing much more than the legal limit even in second. But being used to having a hot hatch as well as the M they are certainly the poor relation and the front wheel drive nature and little engines is fun but its just nothing like the big NA rear wheel drive combinations.
So for everyday usable performance you can't beat the twin turbo engines like in the 35i, 235, 135 and new M3. But they are lack lustre, effortless, sound a bit lame and manufactured and the driver just isn't involved. The appeal of the NA engines is that you have to work for the performance, and when you do the feeling is immense and what your after!! So if you want a new car the only manufactures making NA engines in sportscars currently Merc AMG C63 but the new one is meant to rival BMs twin 6, Porsche Cayman/911, Ferrari and lamborghini. There are plenty of turbos and supers around.
But thats all relative, I like the old cars that don't have too many computer components keeping you on the road. A car that barks at you and tells you when your pushing it too far and that sensation comes through your seat rather than a flashing light on the dash therefore a car that isn't bothered about putting you in a hedge.
Cars on my list:
14-23k
BMW E46 M3 just such an awesome car, has everything you want in spades + 4 seats. Great looking car and fairly affordable. Pulls the heartstrings as it was my dads first M car lots of good memories.
BMW Z3M Coupe - would love one they are very niche just like the Z4M and thats the appeal
BMW Z4M Coupe - because its hard to beat might buy another
BMW E90 M3 - V8 with 4 doors perfect for carrying everything at warp speed love the look of the 4 door too and that V8 :wub:
BMW E63 M6 - I love the look and that engine!!! Also the interior is one of the nicest places to be. But scary if anything goes wrong.
Audi RS4 V8 - same as above but with a nicer more sporting interior
Porsche 996 Carrera 4S - might not be the best 911 but I love that wide body looks gorgeous, cheap (for a porsche), goes like stink and sounds amazing with the sports exhaust.
Bucket list £30-45+k (quite a way off for me)
BMW E46 M3 CSL - obvious. IMO one of the best cars ever made and would be in my forever garage.
997 Carrera S - Probably one of the best affordable sports/super cars available also because I love them, and hopefully my dad might sell me his
997 Turbo/S - again although the only turbo on the list I love them.
Audi R8 - I don't like the look of them neither the interior just doesn't seem special but it is a world class super car
Jag F type coupe - Gorgeous but unlikely to be <45k for a while
My plan is to buy a house first…. lol! Buy a cheap E46/E90 320D or R56 Mini Cooper S to commute with and then try and pick up an E46 M3 or Z3M Coupe depending whats available. Then in time buy a 997 Carrera 4s or S and I would be very content with that combo and sell the daily and buy the Mini Cooper S thats we've just taken delivery of at the end of its 3 year term.
mad4slalom
Senior member
the gtr whilst soooooo quick is also soooooo japper and sssooooooooooooo bloody ugly, doesnt float my boat in the same way that scoobys and evos dont. the ttrs again is just turbo puff power and i know its quick but it has none of the m's presence. porsche yes , very nice but if every woman looked like miss world ,she wouldnt look special after a while, there are just too many around . for the money we have a lot of car, maybe if money to burn do the exdos mods and reenjoy the car all over again. look how classic the z3 mcoupes are looking now, i think ours will be the same. 
Hah, we're surprisingly very similar tomscott
Your list is.. 90% of my list, and i'm also being told i must buy a house before i buy a more rediculous car. We must be the entire small contingent of 4door V8 M3 fans
One to add to the lower category:
Abarth 595 (alternative to the Mini)
In addition, my upper category:
997 GT3 - either, dont mind - just want one!
C63 Black (in silver) - actually prefer the older style one, ultimate muscle car and looks to boot.
F-Type V8 Coupe - probably in white.
Your list is.. 90% of my list, and i'm also being told i must buy a house before i buy a more rediculous car. We must be the entire small contingent of 4door V8 M3 fans
One to add to the lower category:
Abarth 595 (alternative to the Mini)
In addition, my upper category:
997 GT3 - either, dont mind - just want one!
C63 Black (in silver) - actually prefer the older style one, ultimate muscle car and looks to boot.
F-Type V8 Coupe - probably in white.
Haha! Great minds
Ye the 4 door is so cool, my dad had the E92 coupe for 3 years and that was a beast, loved it although felt like a big car compared to the E46, the 4 door just seems a no compromise car that you could possibly (gasp) use as a family car
for the future :?
I would love a GT3 too but even good 996 GT3s are in the 60+ region and the 997s are appreciating. Also 90% of them are tracked and although bulletproof engines they will need attention in time. Did you see the 997 GT3 RS 4.0 went for some ridiculous amount recently, double its original cost 3 years later and the fact the new one had such a blunder is increasing the retail further.
The GT3s although the ultimate upgrade to the Z4M I retain my opinion that they are not good road cars even the comfort version. They are hard core, sus is hard, interior loud and on the more extreme scale, great if you want a hard core weekend car and it does that perfectly. But although my above list of cars will always be a weekend cars the GT factor of the above list is also a bonus and the luxury, refined aspect is also important to me.
The GT3 for me will always be that 3rd car… haha! The one you list after and doesn't really fit a purpose but the ultimate car you can take to the track and drive home, then a nice weekend car and a daily. Falls into dream land.
For affordable, luxury, classic, performance cars the pre 2012 NA BMW M cars are very hard to beat.
Ye the 4 door is so cool, my dad had the E92 coupe for 3 years and that was a beast, loved it although felt like a big car compared to the E46, the 4 door just seems a no compromise car that you could possibly (gasp) use as a family car
for the future :? I would love a GT3 too but even good 996 GT3s are in the 60+ region and the 997s are appreciating. Also 90% of them are tracked and although bulletproof engines they will need attention in time. Did you see the 997 GT3 RS 4.0 went for some ridiculous amount recently, double its original cost 3 years later and the fact the new one had such a blunder is increasing the retail further.
The GT3s although the ultimate upgrade to the Z4M I retain my opinion that they are not good road cars even the comfort version. They are hard core, sus is hard, interior loud and on the more extreme scale, great if you want a hard core weekend car and it does that perfectly. But although my above list of cars will always be a weekend cars the GT factor of the above list is also a bonus and the luxury, refined aspect is also important to me.
The GT3 for me will always be that 3rd car… haha! The one you list after and doesn't really fit a purpose but the ultimate car you can take to the track and drive home, then a nice weekend car and a daily. Falls into dream land.
For affordable, luxury, classic, performance cars the pre 2012 NA BMW M cars are very hard to beat.
This also looks like an absolute beast - a baby m5:
one way i judge a car - "Would i opt to drive this around the <insert area of good roads> over my Z4MC", and the above i probably would consider it.. i could take more stuff, and when i'm there ferry people around - but its faster and newer and more usable than my z4
one way i judge a car - "Would i opt to drive this around the <insert area of good roads> over my Z4MC", and the above i probably would consider it.. i could take more stuff, and when i'm there ferry people around - but its faster and newer and more usable than my z4
CornishRob
Senior member
jimmybell said:This also looks like an absolute beast - a baby m5:
one way i judge a car - "Would i opt to drive this around the <insert area of good roads> over my Z4MC", and the above i probably would consider it.. i could take more stuff, and when i'm there ferry people around - but its faster and newer and more usable than my z4
Ive driven one for a bit, and would be a great daily, which you could occasionally use for a blast, but I was happy to be getting back into the Z4MC after.
Its too perfect and didn't feel that special because of it.
I drove a black one, which also didn't help, but in that blue, they do look great. I would be very happy to have one as a family car, but as a late 20s, the Z4m wins everytime!
:wub:
Shame about the colour looks nice there but in the flesh looks too baby blue for me, almost to the violet side of the spectrum in the light going to a very pale white with a purple tint.
I like shakirh orange (although this is the M4)
There is a black one at our local dealers and has the two tone alloys with the Carbon kit :wub:
Shame about the colour looks nice there but in the flesh looks too baby blue for me, almost to the violet side of the spectrum in the light going to a very pale white with a purple tint.
I like shakirh orange (although this is the M4)
There is a black one at our local dealers and has the two tone alloys with the Carbon kit :wub:
Great thread,
To be honest i've had a few cracks at this ...
After selling my old Z4MC I went to a number of different cars to name the majority
Cayman S Sport to Porsche 911 (996) C4S to Lotus Exige S2 to Porsche 911 (997) C2S Aero Cup back to Z4MC.
If I had 35k to spend on a weekend toy, for me your looking at a Gen 2 997 with an aero pack / get one fitted...or maybe a 997.1 Turbo but still think i would go N/a gen 2. For 25k might be a struggle to better the Z4M to be fair and justify the additional cost :? Only problem I ever really face with the Z4M is the two seat situation could really do with 4
, planning to get another 911 at some point thinking it will be 2016 now.
Couple of cars that interest me , Noble m12 3r (almost bought one last year), Tvr T350 (it scares me as am not hands on with the tools) , Exige RGB S, XKR and maybe ... and just for a sunny weekend a slk 55amg :lol:
To be honest i've had a few cracks at this ...
After selling my old Z4MC I went to a number of different cars to name the majority
Cayman S Sport to Porsche 911 (996) C4S to Lotus Exige S2 to Porsche 911 (997) C2S Aero Cup back to Z4MC.
If I had 35k to spend on a weekend toy, for me your looking at a Gen 2 997 with an aero pack / get one fitted...or maybe a 997.1 Turbo but still think i would go N/a gen 2. For 25k might be a struggle to better the Z4M to be fair and justify the additional cost :? Only problem I ever really face with the Z4M is the two seat situation could really do with 4
, planning to get another 911 at some point thinking it will be 2016 now.Couple of cars that interest me , Noble m12 3r (almost bought one last year), Tvr T350 (it scares me as am not hands on with the tools) , Exige RGB S, XKR and maybe ... and just for a sunny weekend a slk 55amg :lol:
Great thread, for <£20k I'd struggle to replace the Z for what it offers.
But I think we've all got our 5 year motoring plans. :wink:
For me, we're already on the property ladder, but I need to buy a house with (or with potential to build) a double garage, hopefully within the next 3 years. The Z gets one half, but the other half will be filled with one of 2 cars:
E30 M3 or E46 CSL. Budget of £35-40k currently, but who knows where they'll be when I get around to it.
As has been mentioned it doesn't take long for the Z to be above legal limits, so not sure I want to look for loads of extra power / speed what I'm after is enjoyment.
Before the Z I had a supercharged Mini Cooper S, obviously quite a bit slower than the Z, but I loved that car it was great to drive. This is why I'm yearning over the E30 M3, not hugely fast by today's standards, but a very involving drive drive with a great chassis and steering rack
In any event I'm emigrating in Jan for 5 years or so and hoping to save what I need whilst out in Singapore. :driving:
But I think we've all got our 5 year motoring plans. :wink:
For me, we're already on the property ladder, but I need to buy a house with (or with potential to build) a double garage, hopefully within the next 3 years. The Z gets one half, but the other half will be filled with one of 2 cars:
E30 M3 or E46 CSL. Budget of £35-40k currently, but who knows where they'll be when I get around to it.
As has been mentioned it doesn't take long for the Z to be above legal limits, so not sure I want to look for loads of extra power / speed what I'm after is enjoyment.
Before the Z I had a supercharged Mini Cooper S, obviously quite a bit slower than the Z, but I loved that car it was great to drive. This is why I'm yearning over the E30 M3, not hugely fast by today's standards, but a very involving drive drive with a great chassis and steering rack
In any event I'm emigrating in Jan for 5 years or so and hoping to save what I need whilst out in Singapore. :driving:
It's all about cost / benefit Jimmy.... Move out of the smoke, it's not so bad. Longer more expensive commute, but bigger house, sky on the horizon, more accessible Hooning and (IMO) a much better environment to bring up a family. Next on my list are a new job, a car for the Mrs and a bigger house. Needs to be detached and four bedrooms with at least one garage, though two would be ace. I'd really like a big feckin' gate and very few neighbours, but I'm not sure we'll be able to stretch to that. Be worth it just to avoid Halloween though...
jimmybell said:5 years! christ. Good luck
Taking the car? and the Mrs?
The garage is on my to do list, its the primary reason i stomach throwing money at banks to get a house.. though double garage is nigh on impossible inside zone 4
Ha, yes I won't be buying anywhere in London that's for sure, although contrary to Bings opinion above, eventually I'd love to end up around Clapham or maybe Fulham / Parsons Green way. Perfect environment for what we'd want out of life.
As for Singapore, missus, yes. car, no.
My dad has offered to look after the Z whilst I'm away, keep it ticking over etc. I'll be back to give a good hoon a few times a year :wink: . Owning a car in Singapore is not an expense I want (think £75k for a mini).
It will be hard to live without cars for a few years, but sometimes you gotta grab what life throws at you with two hands.
I don't disagree Bing - just not practical with the careers me and the mrs have at the moment :< If she was more mobile (career wise, no zimmer frames thankfully), i'd goto Singapore happily, or the US. Steven you'll have to time your return visits to coincide with all major forum hoons now.. i'd get that built into your employment contract tbh. :driving:
I agree about the roads - but i'm actually finding that i'm doing more miles than had ever planned (in better places too!) - to the extent i've had to make a conscious decision to keep the car and put many more miles on it as it's so fun
I agree about the roads - but i'm actually finding that i'm doing more miles than had ever planned (in better places too!) - to the extent i've had to make a conscious decision to keep the car and put many more miles on it as it's so fun
Quite agree Steven. I'd jump at the chance to spend a few years over there. I decided against a move to Russia last year, which given all the turmoil since, seems like the right choice.
I liked Moscow a lot to be honest, from the limited view I had of it, but I had my doubts about the job which have since proved to be justified.