Turkey & Russia
- Thread starter TitanTim
- Start date
Jasey said:Turkish resorts will be as busy as Egypts before long youcan pick any sunbedJohn002 said:
You could be right lol. It's a shame as I do like it there. The people are fairly westernised, its in the North where the "stricter" Muslims are and where the president gets his votes. He has been allowing immigrants in and giving them passports almost immediately so as to gain more votes. A practice that normally takes six years. The country is divided.
Cornwell for me next year.
Turkey is a member of NATO and within two years will be a full member of the EU maybe sooner if they agree to help police the EU borders as requested by Merkel and Hollande. Turkey is a country who plays by the rules, laws we all play by in Western Europe.
It is Russia who does not do this with regards the stealth invasion of Ukraine and the violation of other countries borders with respect to airspace.
At the moment Russia is being run almost as a dictatorship all be it one one secured on the tails of total domination of propaganda and is certainly least like a democracy we would recognise.
I also agree that Putin is unstable and it very possibly wasn't the most prudent thing to do but every state has the right to protect its borders and if warnings are ignored then they leave that state with no viable alternative.
It should also be remembered in all of this the reason the Russia is flying all of these sorties in the area is to support the Assad regime to gain Russia power and influence within the Middle East directly opposing the NATO countries stratagems (us) who also want to gain influence by unseating him.
I do believe a confrontation of some sort was going to be inevitable as the more Russia was allowed to impose military might (Ukraine, attacks on rebelling Syrian population)the more it would seek to do this although it could argued we do the same in the Middle East!
All in all I do not see how anyone can take Russia's side in this when they are so diametrically opposed to our side and have been pressing boundaries and borders for months and even years.
It is Russia who does not do this with regards the stealth invasion of Ukraine and the violation of other countries borders with respect to airspace.
At the moment Russia is being run almost as a dictatorship all be it one one secured on the tails of total domination of propaganda and is certainly least like a democracy we would recognise.
I also agree that Putin is unstable and it very possibly wasn't the most prudent thing to do but every state has the right to protect its borders and if warnings are ignored then they leave that state with no viable alternative.
It should also be remembered in all of this the reason the Russia is flying all of these sorties in the area is to support the Assad regime to gain Russia power and influence within the Middle East directly opposing the NATO countries stratagems (us) who also want to gain influence by unseating him.
I do believe a confrontation of some sort was going to be inevitable as the more Russia was allowed to impose military might (Ukraine, attacks on rebelling Syrian population)the more it would seek to do this although it could argued we do the same in the Middle East!
All in all I do not see how anyone can take Russia's side in this when they are so diametrically opposed to our side and have been pressing boundaries and borders for months and even years.
Whose description of Muslim terrorists though?
Putins description is Turkey ( a sovereign country defending its borders after multiple infringements over a period of months) or the rebelling people of a country ruled by a dictatorship (Syria). The only ISIS targets being hit by the Russians are to muddy the waters of his foreign policy.
Putins description is Turkey ( a sovereign country defending its borders after multiple infringements over a period of months) or the rebelling people of a country ruled by a dictatorship (Syria). The only ISIS targets being hit by the Russians are to muddy the waters of his foreign policy.
Personally i dont see how turkey did anything wrong here....
Russia have been frequently violating turkish airspace since their assault on the rebels close to the Turkish borders, Turkey warned them on previous occasions and now enough is enough.
Russia is only getting involved to help Assad to further help the Russian cause... Fighting ISIS is only a smoke screen for them.
Turkey on the other hand are aligned to Europe and want the Assad regime out.
Russia have been frequently violating turkish airspace since their assault on the rebels close to the Turkish borders, Turkey warned them on previous occasions and now enough is enough.
Russia is only getting involved to help Assad to further help the Russian cause... Fighting ISIS is only a smoke screen for them.
Turkey on the other hand are aligned to Europe and want the Assad regime out.
But has history not taught us that taking the dictator out, that the country falls into disarray? Iraq, Libya are not really countries anymore but hotbeds for IS. Add Syria in there and they have a free reign to flourish in the entire region.
The effects of this can already been seen in countries such as Belgium where a huge influx of these people are now causing serious issues with security.
The effects of this can already been seen in countries such as Belgium where a huge influx of these people are now causing serious issues with security.
Although I dont agree that Turkey was in the right to shoot down ANY plane nomatter whos it was I think they were definately in the wrong to blow up the helicopter that went in to try and rescue the downed pilots.
That is of course if the news that we are fed is to be believed.
That is of course if the news that we are fed is to be believed.
I would be asking who Russia were bombing in the region? That region of Syria is heavily populated by Turkmen (ethnic Turks that live in Syria) that are supported by Turkey. There may be other reasons apart from the incursion into Turkish airspace that affected any decision.
I honestly don't see how anyone can defend Turkey. Yes, the Russian plane passed over a 2km out-crop of Turkey but it is largely un-inhabited and certainly has no major towns , cities or population. Who was at risk? What has Turkey gained by doing it? Lets hope no Turkish plane, flying around Syria, goes anywhere near a Russian ship or plane as I think the outcome will be similar.
It's not as if they were circling over Istanbul about to drop bombs, they were basically skirting around the Turkish border apart from one section that dog-legs into Syria that would've taken seconds to pass over. The issue of who Turkey and Russia support in Syria is more likely the cause but that would makes the situation even worse as they've done it on the sly. Who would we/Turkey like in power instead of Assad really is beyond me. In this case I am sure it's better the devil you know, especially when you consider similar recent ''liberations''.
For Turkey to risk escalating the situation in Syria is wreckless IMO and shows further that they should not be allowed to join the EU with erratic, hot-headed behaviour. Russia flexes its muscles or fly's so-called ''reconnaissance'' missions around many EU countries all the time. It's a good job all the other EU countries don't do the same.
Lastly, I find it frustrating that as members of Nato, we have been drawn into this, with politicians publicly supporting Turkey. Turkey messed up and have dragged the rest of us with them, without our consent.
It's not as if they were circling over Istanbul about to drop bombs, they were basically skirting around the Turkish border apart from one section that dog-legs into Syria that would've taken seconds to pass over. The issue of who Turkey and Russia support in Syria is more likely the cause but that would makes the situation even worse as they've done it on the sly. Who would we/Turkey like in power instead of Assad really is beyond me. In this case I am sure it's better the devil you know, especially when you consider similar recent ''liberations''.
For Turkey to risk escalating the situation in Syria is wreckless IMO and shows further that they should not be allowed to join the EU with erratic, hot-headed behaviour. Russia flexes its muscles or fly's so-called ''reconnaissance'' missions around many EU countries all the time. It's a good job all the other EU countries don't do the same.
Lastly, I find it frustrating that as members of Nato, we have been drawn into this, with politicians publicly supporting Turkey. Turkey messed up and have dragged the rest of us with them, without our consent.
