Track alloys / tyres suggestions + advice

[AndyBeech]

So after doing a few track days now this year, and having an excellent time, I'm thinking that running 19" wheels with road tyres might not be the best choice for future days. Although they look great, rubber is expensive and as I've discovered today, road tyres don't appreciate being overheated and semi wrecking an otherwise decent set of tyres is a bit of a bugger! Also with the PSS10 suspension now fitted (still have to do a write up on that!), I don't think I'm getting the best out of it using road tyres.

So the options I have are:

Stick with the 19's and road tyres and accept driving more to the limitations of the tyres - which is mostly fine for me, I'm not chasing lap times but the guys I've seen on semi slick / track tyres are so much faster through corners and not wrecking their tyres into the bargain. Possibly need to look at setup as well to be fair as having a tonne of understeer. Wondering whether need to just power through it like Top Gear did in their review!
The only caveat to this would be to stump up and pay around £900 for Michelin Cup 2 Connect all round and see how they get on... big asking price for a tyre that could still get ruined though even though they are track focussed. Or just go with PS4S tyres but worried they would end up the same.

19's plus track tyres, R888's or AD***, but apart from being eye wateringly expensive, not sure on their road credentials for general use so pretty much discounting this option

18" alloys with the above track tyres for track days and swap them with the 19's when needed

Going with 18's seems the best solution though I have a few concerns....

What combo of 18" alloys and track tyres can anyone recommend that fit the M without spacers / modifying etc.? Something that looks good while being cost effective....Apex ARC-8 the obvious choice but new are waaaay too expensive for my usage. Will also need to fit a BBK in the future but doubt this will be a problem with 18's.

And my main concern, if I have the geo set up for the 19's, do I have to get a new geo setup for 18's every time I want to go on track? Presumably with smaller wheels and tyres the geo will be thrown out from what I'd have with the 19's?

Any help / recommendations would be much apricated!

 

[BTZ461]

Apex Arc8 in 17 or 18 inch is really the only brand for consideration. Or the EC7 if you prefer the look. Just a bit heavier though.
Easy to obtain, (even in the UK) and mega light weight, as well as a handsome looking rim style that complements our Z4.
18 Inchx10 inch rears(Arc8) weigh 9kg, 9 inch for the front 8.18kg. For the best advice on fitment, suspension and big brake kits the ZPost.com forum is full of user based information and recommendations. Really helpful bunch of chaps, don't be shy, ask this question there.
Wursle a frequent poster on here runs a set of 17 inchers on his quick 3.0si coupe, and several of the 4M boys do too.
Hope this helps 8)

 

[Haggisman]

So after doing a few track days now this year, and having an excellent time, I'm thinking that running 19" wheels with road tyres might not be the best choice for future days. Although they look great, rubber is expensive and as I've discovered today, road tyres don't appreciate being overheated and semi wrecking an otherwise decent set of tyres is a bit of a bugger! Also with the PSS10 suspension now fitted (still have to do a write up on that!), I don't think I'm getting the best out of it using road tyres.

So the options I have are:

Stick with the 19's and road tyres and accept driving more to the limitations of the tyres - which is mostly fine for me, I'm not chasing lap times but the guys I've seen on semi slick / track tyres are so much faster through corners and not wrecking their tyres into the bargain. Possibly need to look at setup as well to be fair as having a tonne of understeer. Wondering whether need to just power through it like Top Gear did in their review!
The only caveat to this would be to stump up and pay around £900 for Michelin Cup 2 Connect all round and see how they get on... big asking price for a tyre that could still get ruined though even though they are track focussed. Or just go with PS4S tyres but worried they would end up the same.

19's plus track tyres, R888's or AD***, but apart from being eye wateringly expensive, not sure on their road credentials for general use so pretty much discounting this option

18" alloys with the above track tyres for track days and swap them with the 19's when needed

Going with 18's seems the best solution though I have a few concerns....

What combo of 18" alloys and track tyres can anyone recommend that fit the M without spacers / modifying etc.? Something that looks good while being cost effective....Apex ARC-8 the obvious choice but new are waaaay too expensive for my usage. Will also need to fit a BBK in the future but doubt this will be a problem with 18's.

And my main concern, if I have the geo set up for the 19's, do I have to get a new geo setup for 18's every time I want to go on track? Presumably with smaller wheels and tyres the geo will be thrown out from what I'd have with the 19's?

Any help / recommendations would be much apricated!

IMHO - Semi slicks will get the suspension working, upgrade brake fluid and pads and you’ll find you can do more laps with less drama.I’d go an 18” square set up, probably 9” all round, not sure about the ET on an M. Square set up all round gives you more life out of the tyres as you can move them front to back etc. Tyre pressures are important, I found a 5lb cold pressure difference between using Dunlop versus Toyo’s. A cheap Tyre pyrometer is handy to measure temps across the tread after a few laps.
Shouldn’t need to change alignment between different wheel sizes though a bit of negative camber doesn’t go wrong.
Have fun

 

[MrPT]

Keep an eye out for the GitiSport GTR3 (yes, that’s the actual name and it’s not a joke). I think it’s been released but not actually available yet.

Seems to be making waves as a track-biased summer tyre and is potentially going to undercut the usual suspects from Toyo and Nankang in price. It could turn out to be too good to be true, mind, i.e. more expensive than expected or the final product turns out to be inferior to the pre-release versions.

 

[mmm-five]

18's plus...

• Pirelli P-Zero Corsa / Trofeo R, Pilot Sport Cup 2 or Goodyear Supersport R or Dunlop DZ03G(if money's no object)
• Toyo R888 / R888R or Yokohama AD048R / A052 / ADO8RS (if you not quite as rich)
• Nankang NS2R or Federal 595RS-R / 595RS-Pro (if you're on a tighter budget).

I ran part-worn P-Zero Corsa (from a acquaintance who was going up a size in their Porsche Carrera Cup racing specs) for a few years on my e34 M5 (about 250kg heavier) and they stood up to a far bit of abuse (about 3 events, unless I went on an airfield where they'd last about 2 hours).

Once those were gone, and I saw the price of new ones, I tried the R888s for a while and was really impressed at their price-point (£90/tyre back then).

Then I found someone selling their stock of track-only Silverstone S585 tarmac rally tyres...wow!!! Very noisy though

Now I'm happy to just get to the Ring & back on the same set of tyres, so it's Michelin Supersports for now, and will be Goodyear Supersports once I need new tyres (although as the car is being used on the road a lot less, maybe I can get away with something more grippy...Supersport R or Cup 2).

 

[mmm-five]

Keep an eye out for the GitiSport GTR3 (yes, that’s the actual name and it’s not a joke). I think it’s been released but not actually available yet.

Seems to be making waves as a track-biased summer tyre and is potentially going to undercut the usual suspects from Toyo and Nankang in price. It could turn out to be too good to be true, mind, i.e. more expensive than expected or the final product turns out to be inferior to the pre-release versions.

Looks like the launch sizes are a bit sparse though...

 

[MrPT]

Looks like the launch sizes are a bit sparse though...
2020-09-26_10-40-41.jpg

Ah yea, very limited on the 18s!

245/35/19 + 265/35/19 is maybe not a bad option for the OP though (if they ever show up).

 

[exdos]

Whatever tyres you use, when on track, set up your suspension to the stiff end of the range to reduce bodyroll, pitching and squatting as much as possible and you'll find you get more grip/better handling, but on the roads set your suspension at the softer end of the range.

18" wheels will cope with tyre temperatures better .

 

[brillomaster]

Well, when i was tracking my 3.0i zed i found a standard set of 18" MV1s, with federal 595 rsrs in a 245/35 front, 255/35 rear was great, very little understeer. But dont know how the offsets differ for an M.

But yes, id definitely switch to 18s with dedicated track tyres if you're serious.

 

[AndyBeech]

Cheers guys, food for thought there. I guess I'll be keeping my eyes open for some 18's! The Gitisport tyres look interesting though, will see how they review.

I had the suspension set a medium firmness, 5 out of 10 clicks. I didn't go harder at Abingdon purely because its an airfield track so no proper smooth like an actual track would be but will look at going harder in future. Still experimenting!

 

[BTZ461]

Apex Arc8 in 17 or 18 inch is really the only brand for consideration. Or the EC7 if you prefer the look. Just a bit heavier though.
Easy to obtain, (even in the UK) and mega light weight, as well as a handsome looking rim style that complements our Z4.
18 Inchx10 inch rears(Arc8) weigh 9kg, 9 inch for the front 8.18kg. For the best advice on fitment, suspension and big brake kits the ZPost.com forum is full of user based information and recommendations. Really helpful bunch of chaps, don't be shy, ask this question there.
Wursle a frequent poster on here runs a set of 17 inchers on his quick 3.0si coupe, and several of the 4M boys do too.
Hope this helps 8)

I do bang on about Apex wheels here is our Mr Blue in his new shoes 18x10ET25 rear 18x9ET30Front.attachment=0]IMG_20200927_081437 (3)MOIZ4.jpg[/attachment]

 

[beanie]

The cheapest route to a set of 18” track wheels and tyres must be some used 224/M3 wheels with some ‘lower tier’ track tyres.

You could try team dynamics wheels as they were always good value but I don’t know what fitments are available.

I’d also consider how you’ll divide wet and dry usage. Something like the giti might be fine for dry use but may be hopeless or frustrating in the wet whereas the cup2/ad08 will have a better spread of abilities. If you’re happy to swap to your road set on wet days then you could prioritize dry ability on the 18s and maybe look at the AR1/A052. These aren’t necessarily absolute suggestions but it’s a consideration worth taking in to account.

FWIW, I’d probably go for something that has good heat resistance with ‘relatively decent’ wet performance and fit them to some 224s. All in it will probably cost less than a set of new Apex wheels and you’ll have something more capable and durable in the dry with a decent level of wet performance should the weather turn on track or on the way home.

 

[Haggisman]

Apex Arc8 in 17 or 18 inch is really the only brand for consideration. Or the EC7 if you prefer the look. Just a bit heavier though.
Easy to obtain, (even in the UK) and mega light weight, as well as a handsome looking rim style that complements our Z4.
18 Inchx10 inch rears(Arc8) weigh 9kg, 9 inch for the front 8.18kg. For the best advice on fitment, suspension and big brake kits the ZPost.com forum is full of user based information and recommendations. Really helpful bunch of chaps, don't be shy, ask this question there.
Wursle a frequent poster on here runs a set of 17 inchers on his quick 3.0si coupe, and several of the 4M boys do too.
Hope this helps 8)

I do bang on about Apex wheels here is our Mr Blue in his new shoes 18x10ET25 rear 18x9ET30Front.attachment=0]IMG_20200927_081437 (3)MOIZ4.jpg

Mr Blue is looking good, and no rubbing with these offsets?

 

[TomK]

I'd agree with pretty much everything Beanie wrote. The M3 e46 18s are a good wheel, cheap and fit well. Usually you can find them for a couple of hundred or so, I used to have a set a while back for winters. Same widths as 224s but a lot lighter.

What combo of 18" alloys and track tyres can anyone recommend that fit the M without spacers / modifying etc.? Something that looks good while being cost effective....Apex ARC-8 the obvious choice but new are waaaay too expensive for my usage. Will also need to fit a BBK in the future but doubt this will be a problem with 18's.

If you want the ARC-8 look there are reps of them for a 1/3rd the price. I'm not 100% on fitment but I suspect they'd be fine, they sell an 8.5 & 10j set with et20 front & rear. https://cmwheels.com/product/18-bbs-rc-arc-8-style-wheels-hyper-silver/
I run a 235/40 on 8.5 at the front and 265/35 on 9.5 at the rear, works fine for me.
As beanie suggested if you are happy to just use your 18s for dry then you can be more extreme on the tyre, of course the problem being that it's impossible to fit a spare set in the car so it can make sense to err on a compromise tyre particularly if you're not chasing times.
I would have recommended AD08R highly, sadly nla and the replacement AD08RS is turd apparently.
A052 very good and will work in the wet but expensive. My next dry set I will be moving to AR-1.

And my main concern, if I have the geo set up for the 19's, do I have to get a new geo setup for 18's every time I want to go on track? Presumably with smaller wheels and tyres the geo will be thrown out from what I'd have with the 19's?

Unfortunately yes, geo will be changed if the diameter and width of the tyres are different, it's not going to be a huge change but it is something to think about.

 

[AndyBeech]

Sound advice I think Beanie and Tom, cheers guys.

Annoying about the geo but maybe I could set it up for the 18's and just leave it when putting the 19's back on rather than the other way around. I don't drive that hard on the roads anyway so hopefully won't have too much affect when using it normally....

Will save the 18's for dry days and use the 19's on any wet days I may do as they won't take that much punishment when the weather is bad I guess.

I hate working out offsets and wheels etc. not my forte! Anyone know if ET45 front and ET20 (8.5J + 9.5J) would work ok without rubbing / spacers?

Anyone with experience of Cup 2 tyres versus R888 or Yoko track tyres or even any other track tyre?

 

[Mr Tidy]

Those sizes and offsets ought to work OK without rubbing or spacers.

My car came with 19" CSL Reps, but they are similar sizes and offsets and I don't get any rubbing. They are 8.5Jx19 ET44 on the front and 9.5Jx19 ET 27 on the rear. Tyres are 235/35 fronts and 265/30 rears.

Those rears you mention will sit 7mm further out than my wheels, but when I got the car it had 10mm spacers on the rear and I didn't notice any rubbing. (Unlike the front which had 15mm spacers)!

Sorry I can't help with your tyre question though.

 

[Argenta]

I'm not running my CSL 19" streettires (SuperSports) on track (unless its Nordschleife) so I'm keeping my std 18" for track tires, only need the cash for them... :?
I usually go for the trusted Toyo R888 but recently leaning towards Cup 2's aswell as they seem to work pretty well? Also since it has to do streettime to/from track etc

Biggest Q for me is where to get them from?

 

[AndyBeech]

I'm not running my CSL 19" streettires (SuperSports) on track (unless its Nordschleife) so I'm keeping my std 18" for track tires, only need the cash for them... :?
I usually go for the trusted Toyo R888 but recently leaning towards Cup 2's aswell as they seem to work pretty well? Also since it has to do streettime to/from track etc

Biggest Q for me is where to get them from?

Well I've gone for a set of 18's with Cup 2 tyres to be fitted so I'll let you know how they go next time I go out, maybe Silverstone before the year is out....I know a lot of guys run R888 on Caterhams and the like, I was told they probably won't like the weight of our cars and are better used on light(er) weight cars. Could be rubbish though!

Thanks Mr Tidy, yeah I think the offsets should be fine. Will find out!

 

[Argenta]

They I think they mixup the 888’s with the Kumho’s by the sound of it..
Had the Toyo’s on my Fiat Coupe and they worked brilliantly (same power, more torque, 100kg less)

 

[beanie]

Well I've gone for a set of 18's with Cup 2 tyres to be fitted so I'll let you know how they go next time I go out, maybe Silverstone before the year is out....I know a lot of guys run R888 on Caterhams and the like, I was told they probably won't like the weight of our cars and are better used on light(er) weight cars. Could be rubbish though!

Thanks Mr Tidy, yeah I think the offsets should be fine. Will find out!

I think that’s a good choice, what wheels did you go for?