After much correspondence my anti corrosion claim for the roof of my E89 has come to a head with BMW UK. They have said that "due to the convertible part being separate to the shell" it is not covered under the corrosion and their good will gesture is their final decision. They have offered to replace the roof panels at a cost of £3100 split £2400 by them and £700 by me. At the risk of losing this offer, do I take on the big boys in the small claims court.... what would you do?!
To sue or not to sue... Updated result
- Thread starter Pastry
- Start date
By the seaside...
Before making that decision, I'd have a word with a decent bodyshop to see what they'd charge you to rectify the problem.
If it's substantially less than £700, which I would hope it would be, then you've nothing to lose by taking BMW through the Small Claims Court process.
If it's substantially less than £700, which I would hope it would be, then you've nothing to lose by taking BMW through the Small Claims Court process.
Do you have any other warranty information that came with the car other than what is on the BMW website?
It clearly states on the site:
So the argument that it is separate to the shell is a load of crap based on that reasoning as it states "metal panels" and makes no specification that it is only the metal panels that constitute the shell of the car. Unless there is a more detailed warranty information that is supplied with the car and makes that assertion then you appear to be on very firm legal footing to peruse a court claim.
You may also find that once the court claim is issued through the MCOL service that they will just offer a settlement to foot the bill on a without prejudice basis on the proviso you drop the claim and shut up.... It will likely cost them a lot more than £3000 to try and defend it in court.
Obviously there is there is the chance they could try and fight in in court and whilst I think that would be unlikely and given the evidence available to me I am guessing a judge will agree with your claim should it come to that, there is also the chance you have missed something in some terms somewhere and could possibly lose? So its a decision of do you just spend the £700 and have done with it.
Personally I'd probably fight it in court it's dead easy to issue proceedings online and they have to respond to the claim before it goes to court and in my limited experience of suing a big company they played hard until they got the proceedings and then just settled. But I have only seen the warranty info on the BMW website so could be missing something in the more detailed warranty terms you could possibly have with the car that could harm your claim
It clearly states on the site:
So the argument that it is separate to the shell is a load of crap based on that reasoning as it states "metal panels" and makes no specification that it is only the metal panels that constitute the shell of the car. Unless there is a more detailed warranty information that is supplied with the car and makes that assertion then you appear to be on very firm legal footing to peruse a court claim.
You may also find that once the court claim is issued through the MCOL service that they will just offer a settlement to foot the bill on a without prejudice basis on the proviso you drop the claim and shut up.... It will likely cost them a lot more than £3000 to try and defend it in court.
Obviously there is there is the chance they could try and fight in in court and whilst I think that would be unlikely and given the evidence available to me I am guessing a judge will agree with your claim should it come to that, there is also the chance you have missed something in some terms somewhere and could possibly lose? So its a decision of do you just spend the £700 and have done with it.
Personally I'd probably fight it in court it's dead easy to issue proceedings online and they have to respond to the claim before it goes to court and in my limited experience of suing a big company they played hard until they got the proceedings and then just settled. But I have only seen the warranty info on the BMW website so could be missing something in the more detailed warranty terms you could possibly have with the car that could harm your claim
If you're concerned about that, also look at the cost of a new roof panel plus painting by the bodyshop - this would have the advantage that you could have it painted off the car and then swap it over so less time with the car off the road....Pastry said:
south yorkshire
It depends if you have the time for the hassle. You would most likely get a full settlement out of court so as not to set a precedent. I'd be most likely to take the deal as the added stress and time would out weight the £700.
Sorry to hear about your troubles, have you been advised that there is corrosion of the Aluminium under the paint? Pure aluminium self passivates in air, an alloy of Aluminium may not but is dependent on grade, which we have no idea of. Even so, I would find it unlikely that it has without prior damage to the paint (stone chip etcetera). Why I say this is that it may not be a corrosion issue rather a paint bonding issue which may help your cause, however you would need to seek professional advise/analysis from a paint specialist.
As has been said, by their reckoning, bonnets, doors and boot lids are therefore not covered by the warranty, which is utter bollo**s!
Might be worth a post asking for members who HAVE received corrosion repair under warranty to the above parts, and if possible getting copies of repair invoices, as faced with these, any judge would be ruling in your favour.
Mike
Might be worth a post asking for members who HAVE received corrosion repair under warranty to the above parts, and if possible getting copies of repair invoices, as faced with these, any judge would be ruling in your favour.
Mike
mattwaltersz4m
Member
For the sake of your sanity and time as the court process will drag on I would swallow the £700 and have it done or as suggested above get it done privately for less than £700.
The small claims track is easy and painless. They use goodwill so as not to admit liability but you can try to counter that if you wish.
Their defense that the roof isn't covered is easy to dispute as above. If they try and use the defense that damage has cause it you may need to find an expert witness.
Depending on your correspondence so far I would write to the managing director explaining and that you are considering legal action. If that fails then a final letter outlining your demands with time to respond before issuing the claim. I charge for correspondence costs and add on any travel for inspections. Depending on how long you have had the car it may be worth perusing the seller (if trade) as well for it not being fit for purpose.
Once a claim arrived at bmw I would expect them to settle for the full amount as it's not worth sending anyone from legal to defend and a loss would set a precedent. Can't bank on it though.
Their defense that the roof isn't covered is easy to dispute as above. If they try and use the defense that damage has cause it you may need to find an expert witness.
Depending on your correspondence so far I would write to the managing director explaining and that you are considering legal action. If that fails then a final letter outlining your demands with time to respond before issuing the claim. I charge for correspondence costs and add on any travel for inspections. Depending on how long you have had the car it may be worth perusing the seller (if trade) as well for it not being fit for purpose.
Once a claim arrived at bmw I would expect them to settle for the full amount as it's not worth sending anyone from legal to defend and a loss would set a precedent. Can't bank on it though.
85genius said:
I think what they then might argue is that as the roof is in two pieces with a rubber seal inbetween that possibly water may have leaked into the panel and caused the corrosion from the inside. BMW do not cover seals and I would therefore think that any metal part that requires the seal to stop water ingress and subsequently doesn't have any drain holes may well be excluded but if that is the case then BMW need to state that both in this instance and going forward.
Personally I'd take the offer of £700. It's a ballache but at least when it's done if there is any issues you will have a two year warranty from BMW. Then after you could persue them for breach of T&Cs.
Possibly also ask them to keep the pannels and have you view them to assertain if it has been caused by water inside or if it has been a paint bonding issue as Sars has mentioned. If it was the latter I think you would have good grounds to speak with BMW again before any money has changed hands.
In fact, after some good points made by Angie4m and sars I would possibly do this a slightly different way.
Its not a choice of weather to accept the goodwill gesture or sue them as you can in fact do both!
Take them up on the offer and make it well known to them you are doing it grudgingly and do not at any point waive your right to pursue a claim, if you dont make out that you are considering it then they will be very unlikely to ask you to.
Tell them that you want to keep the old panels to inspect if you are having to pay for the repair.
Get the repair done, pay your £700 collect the old panels and then get them examined by a paint expert. If they say it is related to the finishing of the panels and specifically not your misuse then you can go back to BMW to try and get a refund of your £700+ costs getting the panels checked... If they refuse at this point its then time to sue
Its not a choice of weather to accept the goodwill gesture or sue them as you can in fact do both!
Take them up on the offer and make it well known to them you are doing it grudgingly and do not at any point waive your right to pursue a claim, if you dont make out that you are considering it then they will be very unlikely to ask you to.
Tell them that you want to keep the old panels to inspect if you are having to pay for the repair.
Get the repair done, pay your £700 collect the old panels and then get them examined by a paint expert. If they say it is related to the finishing of the panels and specifically not your misuse then you can go back to BMW to try and get a refund of your £700+ costs getting the panels checked... If they refuse at this point its then time to sue
A
Anonymous
Guest
I mentioned this in your other thread, but the threat of going to the motoring press (who would have a field day with this) worked for my father when Audi's "final offer" was similar when his aluminium R8 bonnet rusted and bubbled...
Simple threat of seeing what they have to say about your experience may shift their response...
Simple threat of seeing what they have to say about your experience may shift their response...