Time for a Change?? Z4MC to M4? DCT or Manual?
- Thread starter StevenH72
- Start date
Bing said:
Very true, I am perhaps lucky that motorway driving / heavy traffic makes up very little of my driving, which perhaps explains my stance. Obviously, this could change, but at the moment my 30 mile a day commute is mainly singletrack A & B roads, which is a nice drive in the Z.
Congrats on the new place!
Glad you posted this thread, i was close to doing so. i'm tangling with exactly the same dilemma.
(To the extent i've already been to look at some M4s, and i'm on every local council waiting list for garages and even some private firms - though mainly to see if i can upgrade rather than concern for the Z4. also new house, no garage/parking etc) .. I'm assuming concern for the Z4 on the street is your worry?
Having moved in to our new area, (somewhat unknown), i was concerned about the z4 on the street, but more worried about future cars i might want and whether they're streetable. Granted, my car has had some attention, but ALL positive. The local kids love it, some students down the road were spied taking selfies with it by a neighbour.. unless its a dual carriageway A road or something, you'll probably find you're absolutely fine
I think the m4 is brilliant (when everyone gets over themselves and realises that it's turbos are top notch, and 500+bhp with the jb4 makes any concern about anything at all irrelevant as it'l destroy most supercars), but it does lack that special thing the z4m has, the noise won't be as intoxicating and there's no 8krpm redline.. but if you had to do it, it wouldnt be the worst thing. I actually debated an M3 alongside the Z4mc, just to throw a curveball to ponder. With regards to spec.. DCT, no question. for regular driving you'll want the auto, especially anywhere near London .. i just did SW16->Barking and back in the Z4 after leaving my iphone in a taxi and my left foot was about ready to fall off afterwards. DCT also makes the power much more usable on the road.
All that being said, i'm still tempted by the m3/m4. The m3 is more useful, m4 is a better driving position by far. You can park it anywhere and the average joe wont notice it which is great for on street parking, but no longer will young toddler kids point at your car in admiration, which is exactly why everyone should own an Imola Z4MC at least once
Decisions decisions!
Glad you posted this thread, i was close to doing so. i'm tangling with exactly the same dilemma.
(To the extent i've already been to look at some M4s, and i'm on every local council waiting list for garages and even some private firms - though mainly to see if i can upgrade rather than concern for the Z4. also new house, no garage/parking etc) .. I'm assuming concern for the Z4 on the street is your worry?
Having moved in to our new area, (somewhat unknown), i was concerned about the z4 on the street, but more worried about future cars i might want and whether they're streetable. Granted, my car has had some attention, but ALL positive. The local kids love it, some students down the road were spied taking selfies with it by a neighbour.. unless its a dual carriageway A road or something, you'll probably find you're absolutely fine
I think the m4 is brilliant (when everyone gets over themselves and realises that it's turbos are top notch, and 500+bhp with the jb4 makes any concern about anything at all irrelevant as it'l destroy most supercars), but it does lack that special thing the z4m has, the noise won't be as intoxicating and there's no 8krpm redline.. but if you had to do it, it wouldnt be the worst thing. I actually debated an M3 alongside the Z4mc, just to throw a curveball to ponder. With regards to spec.. DCT, no question. for regular driving you'll want the auto, especially anywhere near London .. i just did SW16->Barking and back in the Z4 after leaving my iphone in a taxi and my left foot was about ready to fall off afterwards. DCT also makes the power much more usable on the road.
All that being said, i'm still tempted by the m3/m4. The m3 is more useful, m4 is a better driving position by far. You can park it anywhere and the average joe wont notice it which is great for on street parking, but no longer will young toddler kids point at your car in admiration, which is exactly why everyone should own an Imola Z4MC at least once
Decisions decisions!
Ok, so I drove a DCT M4 on Friday and then a manual on Saturday.
My mind is well and truly made up, manual all the way.
The clutch / gearbox feel much better than on the Z4, and would be far more liveable on a day to day basis and the car was very refined pooling around the city centre driving that I did.
My big gripe in the DCT is that everything seems berry 'laggy'. If you're cruising around and apply some pressure to the accelerator there is definitely a delay, almost as if the accelerator is merely acting as a 'suggestion box' rather than as a tool with which to control the car. In manual settings the gear changes are brutal and ruin the feel of acceleration IMO.
That said, in automatic, once you are making steady progress, the reactions do sharpen up somewhat but the power delivery is very numb. All in all I left the test drive feeling very very underwhelmed, I felt as if I wasn't really driving the car, I couldn't unleash the car's huge torque levels when I wanted to, I had to press a number of buttons, and then wait for the car to make its mind up as to when to explode forward.
In essence,MIT summed up everything I hate about automatic gearboxes.....it ruined the driving experience. Although did it? The other concern I had was whether it was a combination of the DCT and forced induction? Perhaps, the FI engine and it's power delivery was also turning me off.
So on Saturday, I arrived to drive the manual, somewhat skeptically and less excited than the Friday.
But I loved and still love it. The FI is incredibly un-laggy, more supercharged than turbo'd, lots of torque is available at almost any time. The driving experience was unquestionably superior in the manual. You can modulate the torque delivery yourself (with the DCT in manual mode the DSC kicks in all the time on spirited gear changes sapping all power) and the power is available exactly when you want it to be. The power delivery feels completely different too. Perhaps as you have the direct link between the accelerator and power, it feels more brutal, more like an event. In the DCT everything was very quick, but lacked any sort of drama. The car felt like a quick and heavy GT, not so with the manual.
So, my mind is made up. I'm just making sure that I can affordably settle the finance on the Merc and will then look at getting an order placed for an M4.
My mind is well and truly made up, manual all the way.
The clutch / gearbox feel much better than on the Z4, and would be far more liveable on a day to day basis and the car was very refined pooling around the city centre driving that I did.
My big gripe in the DCT is that everything seems berry 'laggy'. If you're cruising around and apply some pressure to the accelerator there is definitely a delay, almost as if the accelerator is merely acting as a 'suggestion box' rather than as a tool with which to control the car. In manual settings the gear changes are brutal and ruin the feel of acceleration IMO.
That said, in automatic, once you are making steady progress, the reactions do sharpen up somewhat but the power delivery is very numb. All in all I left the test drive feeling very very underwhelmed, I felt as if I wasn't really driving the car, I couldn't unleash the car's huge torque levels when I wanted to, I had to press a number of buttons, and then wait for the car to make its mind up as to when to explode forward.
In essence,MIT summed up everything I hate about automatic gearboxes.....it ruined the driving experience. Although did it? The other concern I had was whether it was a combination of the DCT and forced induction? Perhaps, the FI engine and it's power delivery was also turning me off.
So on Saturday, I arrived to drive the manual, somewhat skeptically and less excited than the Friday.
But I loved and still love it. The FI is incredibly un-laggy, more supercharged than turbo'd, lots of torque is available at almost any time. The driving experience was unquestionably superior in the manual. You can modulate the torque delivery yourself (with the DCT in manual mode the DSC kicks in all the time on spirited gear changes sapping all power) and the power is available exactly when you want it to be. The power delivery feels completely different too. Perhaps as you have the direct link between the accelerator and power, it feels more brutal, more like an event. In the DCT everything was very quick, but lacked any sort of drama. The car felt like a quick and heavy GT, not so with the manual.
So, my mind is made up. I'm just making sure that I can affordably settle the finance on the Merc and will then look at getting an order placed for an M4.
You do know the DCT Is a manual gearbox?
It's not an auto.
It works exactly the same as a manual but has no stick... So there should be no lag in take up of drive, it has no torque converter, just a clutch and cogs..
If there was any lag, it was a faulty car...
It's not an auto.
It works exactly the same as a manual but has no stick... So there should be no lag in take up of drive, it has no torque converter, just a clutch and cogs..
If there was any lag, it was a faulty car...
StevenH72 said:Ok, so I drove a DCT M4 on Friday and then a manual on Saturday.
My mind is well and truly made up, manual all the way.
The clutch / gearbox feel much better than on the Z4, and would be far more liveable on a day to day basis and the car was very refined pooling around the city centre driving that I did.
My big gripe in the DCT is that everything seems berry 'laggy'. If you're cruising around and apply some pressure to the accelerator there is definitely a delay, almost as if the accelerator is merely acting as a 'suggestion box' rather than as a tool with which to control the car. In manual settings the gear changes are brutal and ruin the feel of acceleration IMO.
That said, in automatic, once you are making steady progress, the reactions do sharpen up somewhat but the power delivery is very numb. All in all I left the test drive feeling very very underwhelmed, I felt as if I wasn't really driving the car, I couldn't unleash the car's huge torque levels when I wanted to, I had to press a number of buttons, and then wait for the car to make its mind up as to when to explode forward.
In essence,MIT summed up everything I hate about automatic gearboxes.....it ruined the driving experience. Although did it? The other concern I had was whether it was a combination of the DCT and forced induction? Perhaps, the FI engine and it's power delivery was also turning me off.
So on Saturday, I arrived to drive the manual, somewhat skeptically and less excited than the Friday.
But I loved and still love it. The FI is incredibly un-laggy, more supercharged than turbo'd, lots of torque is available at almost any time. The driving experience was unquestionably superior in the manual. You can modulate the torque delivery yourself (with the DCT in manual mode the DSC kicks in all the time on spirited gear changes sapping all power) and the power is available exactly when you want it to be. The power delivery feels completely different too. Perhaps as you have the direct link between the accelerator and power, it feels more brutal, more like an event. In the DCT everything was very quick, but lacked any sort of drama. The car felt like a quick and heavy GT, not so with the manual.
So, my mind is made up. I'm just making sure that I can affordably settle the finance on the Merc and will then look at getting an order placed for an M4.
How much is the Zed going up for? May be interested..!!
Full manual mode, roundabouts were a nightmare for me. Select 2nd just as I would enter a roundabout and whilst slowing down it would decide that 3rd would be better for me so I would be pulling out of the roundabout torque-less in third. Time after time, same at bends where it would change up (never down). It literally drove the same as my (auto) E70.
I drove the 35i DCT for a morning and I just could not get on with it as Manual did not seem to be true manual mode.
The Porsche PDK system was in that respect much, much better but that just got boring for me after a while.
I drove the 35i DCT for a morning and I just could not get on with it as Manual did not seem to be true manual mode.
The Porsche PDK system was in that respect much, much better but that just got boring for me after a while.
May well be, but my Abarth has the same behaviour with their equivalent box (only one available at the time in the convertible), but as I rarely drive it - it doesn't bother me that much.
Unfortunately when you have driven a brand new demonstrator for a fair few miles in 3 hours or so, and you did not like it - it forms your opinion fairly solidly.
For a daily runner I would have no problems with it though, as I said - it drove almost identical to my X5 so that would be fine. For a weekend toy car, for me it was a non starter.
Unfortunately when you have driven a brand new demonstrator for a fair few miles in 3 hours or so, and you did not like it - it forms your opinion fairly solidly.
For a daily runner I would have no problems with it though, as I said - it drove almost identical to my X5 so that would be fine. For a weekend toy car, for me it was a non starter.
Z4M-2006 said:
Appreciate the condescending tone, and yes I do realise that. In practice it certainly does not operate like one.
It does allow you to bounce of the redline....as I found out
and didn't seem to change gear without me asking it to (other than down changes to avoid stalling)I'm sure with perseverance it would be fine, but a different style of driving. Do you come off the accelerator when you pull the paddles? If so, there is still a bit of guess work with trying to establish when to get back on the ''gas', sure it's quicker than a manual change, but it's not instantaneous. Regardless of how long it takes me to change gear, I know when it has been changed and can modulate my use of the accelerator accordingly.
And there most definitely I lag on the accelerator....perhaps it was merely the cars settings?
bjd said:
I prefer the look of the M4, fairly simple explanation. I took a friend a long with me and he had no trouble in the back of the M4. I agree though for practicality the M3 trumps, but for my needs the M4 is perfect and I love the CSL style boot lid
Interesting to read about the gearbox discussions: manual vs DCT and StevenH72's comments about it feeling 'laggy'.
I've never driven an M4 (missed an opportunity last week at a dealer day in Gleneagles but I was down South) but my daily driver is an M135i. It's obviously a turbocharged 3.0 and I spec'd the Auto box. Even bearing in mind that it's a 'normal' auto and not DCT I find the throttle/engine response instantaneous and the gearbox one of the best features of the car. It even retards the ignition just before the red line to give a very addictive barrrpp noise as it goes into gear
This makes it hard to believe that the M4 DCT could feel laggy although I respect the opinion of the driver. Definitely going to have to get a drive now to form my own opinion.
I'm sure the DCT will result in a different driving experience so it's an individual choice at the end of the day.
I've never driven an M4 (missed an opportunity last week at a dealer day in Gleneagles but I was down South) but my daily driver is an M135i. It's obviously a turbocharged 3.0 and I spec'd the Auto box. Even bearing in mind that it's a 'normal' auto and not DCT I find the throttle/engine response instantaneous and the gearbox one of the best features of the car. It even retards the ignition just before the red line to give a very addictive barrrpp noise as it goes into gear
This makes it hard to believe that the M4 DCT could feel laggy although I respect the opinion of the driver. Definitely going to have to get a drive now to form my own opinion.
I'm sure the DCT will result in a different driving experience so it's an individual choice at the end of the day.
shortfuse 2
Senior member
DCT box for me every time effortless and when you want to play it will blow you away 
The tone was not meant to be condescending,i was asking if you knew that it wasnt an auto.... Its just that you kept repeating that it was an auto and it felt "laggy"...
The DCT will change faster than any manual gearbox,its very fast. You dont have to lift off between gearchanges,you can go full bore all the way through the gearbox.
Like you found out,it will let you rev to whatever RPM you want,and wont "jump" up gears (or down) if not asked,Weird that when PVR drove the DCT it acted totally different to your findings......
Im not saying its better or worse,but that its a different technology....Im a die hard manual fan myself,but i wouldnt rubbish the technology because i didnt know how to use it or find myself able to utilise what the car could give me.
At the end of the day,its your money and the M4 is a great car.... They had a rinsing when they first come out and was dropping money off them to get rid,so not sure where the second hand market will lay in a few years...
Not fancy a lightly used M6 ??
The DCT will change faster than any manual gearbox,its very fast. You dont have to lift off between gearchanges,you can go full bore all the way through the gearbox.
Like you found out,it will let you rev to whatever RPM you want,and wont "jump" up gears (or down) if not asked,Weird that when PVR drove the DCT it acted totally different to your findings......
Im not saying its better or worse,but that its a different technology....Im a die hard manual fan myself,but i wouldnt rubbish the technology because i didnt know how to use it or find myself able to utilise what the car could give me.
At the end of the day,its your money and the M4 is a great car.... They had a rinsing when they first come out and was dropping money off them to get rid,so not sure where the second hand market will lay in a few years...
Not fancy a lightly used M6 ??
shortfuse 2 said:DCT box for me every time effortless and when you want to play it will blow you away
This is what I'd hoped, but having a play with it didn't blow me away.
Perhaps one person's definition of laggy is not the same as others. It's just the driving experience is not what I was looking for. I want something as involved as the Z4M and the DCT, for me, took away from the driving experience.