The Saga of Trigger's S54....

[Mr Tidy]

Are you doing a November one at all? If I get it in the diary early enough I'll hopefully be able to come along!

I'd like to sort something for November 8th as that's the 2nd Sunday of the month, and the 2nd Sunday has been our date of choice for some time.

Just trying to find some inspiration! Other than our round trip to Scotland option. :lol:

But as was the case in September I need to be aware of the "rule of 6" constraints - a £10K fine wouldn't help the M budget!

 

[Beedub]

Really great read thanks OP and fantastic its sorted. I'd have been tempted by a replacement s54.

without being an arse to reddish, things happened a long time ago.....but i did actually have some issues with reddish back in the day..... basically i paid them for a valve check, they did the valve check which they did but reported the stuck a shim, but buttoned the car back with the stuck shim without giving me any resolution to the issue ( no tolerance) they then reported id need to remove the cams etc to unearth the shim but they would need the car booked back in ( leaving me driving and potentially damaging things) ... i had no choice and took the car home, removed the valve cover myself and removed and re-shimmed the "stuck" shim once the car had cooled down, it took me all of 2 hours to sort the complete issue . I gently pressed down the valve spring with a plastic trim tool to take the tension off the rocker arm which slid with ease and the shim came out without the slightest protest.... i then re shimmed and have kept an eye on it since and no issues. Had ive gone the route i was suggested.... it would have cost me thousands. I never understood how a shop of that reputation and knowledge couldn't do what i did, infact at that point, that was the first time id had the cam cover off this car. Moving forward i trust none of these shops. Nothing personal but i don't trust them so im really careful to outline my expectations from the off.

it was another well known indie that may have let me down with shim servicing but i couldn't prove it.

more importantly, i keep a keen eye on that shim and its been fine ever since.... on the flip side, up till that point, reddish were excellent and their general treatment of the car was the best i've received to date, it was just the handling of that situation which was admittedly a total anomaly.

i must also say the car has a great whopping blower attached to it pushing over 540hp , its been used very hard and its going to break at some point.... you have to pay to play... just how it is.

****FYI- im only mentioning this as i was mentioned earlier in the thread. i have no issues with reddish and would use them again and happily move forward from our last experience as it was many years ago now, it was a shame our first experience was a difficult one.*****

 

[R60BBA]

Interesting (although unfortunate) read Ed.

I have 2 questions however:

1. When were the valve clearances last checked?
2. What oil do you run?

Cheers

 

[Vanne]

G'day Ed,

Thanks for posting this, i must admit i am glad that you choose that shop. They look like they know what they are doing and the way that they have kept you in the loop is absolutely amazing.

Excellent work, and i would have likely done exactly the same as you. Thanks for showing us the video's from the shop, i really enjoyed watching them, and hat off to the guy that was explaining things as they were going along, that's excellent! really excellent..

Cant wait to see you hitting the track again.

top notch mate!!!

 

[ph001]

The big take away for me from all of this (and I suppose the route cause of your pain) is that the main dealer made a donkey’s arse out of the rebuild. Definitely not to be trusted!

 

[Ed Doe]

Thank chaps, and thanks beedub for sharing your experience too - shame to hear it wasn't as you wanted but I do wonder if they've come on a bit more again since then?

Interesting (although unfortunate) read Ed.

I have 2 questions however:

1. When were the valve clearances last checked?
2. What oil do you run?

Cheers

Valve clearances checked and minor adjustments made by Mr Vanos in March 2020, approx 800miles prior to the trackday. Always ran the recommended tws oil - again spring service completed in March 2020 by TWG Automotive!

 

[Ed Doe]

The big take away for me from all of this (and I suppose the route cause of your pain) is that the main dealer made a donkey’s arse out of the rebuild. Definitely not to be trusted!

Well I think I'm inclined to agree - it's unfortunate (and this may be a bit of a generalisation) but I'd suggest that guys who work for an independent specialist generally have a lot more interest in the specific car the indy specialises in. Whereas I'd suggest there isn't that same interest at a main dealer. In addition I think most main dealers don't regularly do engine rebuilds, so the knowledge simply isn't there, particularly if the specific engine is now not remotely current. Shame really but its why I've always gone to well reputed independents rather than main dealers.

 

[Andrew Sheldon]

Great story, enjoyed reading it Saturday morning with a cup of tea..
However there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer as to why the chattering noise came and went as it did and the speed it came about..
Hope it continues to run sweet and all the issues are now sorted....

 

[R60BBA]

Interesting (although unfortunate) read Ed.

I have 2 questions however:

1. When were the valve clearances last checked?
2. What oil do you run?

Cheers

Valve clearances checked and minor adjustments made by Mr Vanos in March 2020, approx 800miles prior to the trackday. Always ran the recommended tws oil - again spring service completed in March 2020 by TWG Automotive!

Not trying to run any garages names through the mud here but did you get an explanation for why some your clearances were out of tolerance after just 800 miles?

Especially on the inlet valves for cylinder 6, which is where you bent your valves?...

 

[Ed Doe]

Not trying to run any garages names through the mud here but did you get an explanation for why some your clearances were out of tolerance after just 800 miles?

Especially on the inlet valves for cylinder 6, which is where you bent your valves?...

Not at all, valid question!

So when Mr Vanos did my clearances, he commented that my followers and cam lobes were well worn, which for a car on 72k with plenty of track use wasn't unexpected.

Both Mr Vanos and redish advised separately that once the cams and followers wear through the hardened coating, the softer metal underneath wears at a much quicker rate. Mr Vanos said this is why this issue seems to come on very suddenly.

Obviously as the surfaces wear, it puts the clearances out of tolerance - this is normal and is why our engines need a clearance check at inspection services on the schedule. But mine went out much more quickly because the hardened coating had worn through and therefore the wear rate had accelerated in the softer material underneath.

If is worth nothing that there is also some mention of the top end suffering oil starvation under high load which can exacerbate wear on the followers and cams - of course this is more prevalent on track cars, but hopefully will be somewhat mitigated with the dlc followers which have a deeper hardened coating.

 

[enuff_zed]

So in fact, far from scaremongering, it seems that you would be advocating that, if someone of known expertise points out your followers and cam lobes are well worn, you should start saving and plan to have a big outlay pretty soon.
I understand that no-one can predict just how fast wear will occur, and that they cannot know how you will be using the car, but I would hope that, as these engines get older and these problems start to become more frequent, then specialists would add to their comments; "and you should get them replaced fairly soon".
I doubt it would have saved you very much over what you had to spend, but it could have given you time to plan and also saved a lot of stress about what was wrong.

 

[DSGRNMCM]

Great thread, I've just spent over £2.5k on my new to me car. I think when buying / operating a car like this big bills and preventative maintenance are a must.

Great write up!

 

[Z4M-2006]

Hmmm....

This does seem an unusual anomaly..

Looking back through the pictures,if the pistons pics are in order (1-6) then on number 6 piston there does seem 2 points of contact in the valve recess on the crown.
Then bent valves...

Also.... the thread damage in the head where the cam cap bolts is very common on an engine thats had piston/valve contact,effectively at the point of contact the valve tries to push the cam out of its holding point,damaging the threads in the head for the cam cap. I have seen it where the cam will actually snap.

I would suggest that the actually noise you heard at the track was the valves on that cylinder contacting the piston recesses.... Why this would happen is up for debate.
Its been known after timing belt or chain failure with bent valves to run the engine,and rev its cobblers off and it can "straighten" the valve enough for it to seal on its seat again and clear the piston crown and the engine will run fine....Bodged,but fine.

Its all hypothesis of course.... But i must have seen,worked on and rebuilt literally hundreds of engines in my time inc S54's.... and some typical damage occurs after valve/piston contact.

Either way... im glad its fixed,but i doubt the original rebuild was done badly,indeed any issues would have shown up much earlier especially after you have used it hard on the track.

Food for thought

 

[Beedub]

Thank chaps, and thanks beedub for sharing your experience too - shame to hear it wasn't as you wanted but I do wonder if they've come on a bit more again since then?

Interesting (although unfortunate) read Ed.

I have 2 questions however:

1. When were the valve clearances last checked?
2. What oil do you run?

Cheers

Valve clearances checked and minor adjustments made by Mr Vanos in March 2020, approx 800miles prior to the trackday. Always ran the recommended tws oil - again spring service completed in March 2020 by TWG Automotive!

Yes I think they have ..... And I will reach out at some point .

 

[Justino]

Really great read thanks OP and fantastic its sorted. I'd have been tempted by a replacement s54.

without being an arse to reddish, things happened a long time ago.....but i did actually have some issues with reddish back in the day..... basically i paid them for a valve check, they did the valve check which they did but reported the stuck a shim, but buttoned the car back with the stuck shim without giving me any resolution to the issue ( no tolerance) they then reported id need to remove the cams etc to unearth the shim but they would need the car booked back in ( leaving me driving and potentially damaging things) ... i had no choice and took the car home, removed the valve cover myself and removed and re-shimmed the "stuck" shim once the car had cooled down, it took me all of 2 hours to sort the complete issue . I gently pressed down the valve spring with a plastic trim tool to take the tension off the rocker arm which slid with ease and the shim came out without the slightest protest.... i then re shimmed and have kept an eye on it since and no issues. Had ive gone the route i was suggested.... it would have cost me thousands. I never understood how a shop of that reputation and knowledge couldn't do what i did, infact at that point, that was the first time id had the cam cover off this car. Moving forward i trust none of these shops. Nothing personal but i don't trust them so im really careful to outline my expectations from the off.

it was another well known indie that may have let me down with shim servicing but i couldn't prove it.

more importantly, i keep a keen eye on that shim and its been fine ever since.... on the flip side, up till that point, reddish were excellent and their general treatment of the car was the best i've received to date, it was just the handling of that situation which was admittedly a total anomaly.

i must also say the car has a great whopping blower attached to it pushing over 540hp , its been used very hard and its going to break at some point.... you have to pay to play... just how it is.

****FYI- im only mentioning this as i was mentioned earlier in the thread. i have no issues with reddish and would use them again and happily move forward from our last experience as it was many years ago now, it was a shame our first experience was a difficult one.*****

Does it ever make you wonder that you removed the correct 'stuck' shim given how easily it came out, or perhaps it was a different one, and somehow they told you the wrong one?

 

[Nictrix]

Really great read thanks OP and fantastic its sorted. I'd have been tempted by a replacement s54.

without being an arse to reddish, things happened a long time ago.....but i did actually have some issues with reddish back in the day..... basically i paid them for a valve check, they did the valve check which they did but reported the stuck a shim, but buttoned the car back with the stuck shim without giving me any resolution to the issue ( no tolerance) they then reported id need to remove the cams etc to unearth the shim but they would need the car booked back in ( leaving me driving and potentially damaging things) ... i had no choice and took the car home, removed the valve cover myself and removed and re-shimmed the "stuck" shim once the car had cooled down, it took me all of 2 hours to sort the complete issue . I gently pressed down the valve spring with a plastic trim tool to take the tension off the rocker arm which slid with ease and the shim came out without the slightest protest.... i then re shimmed and have kept an eye on it since and no issues. Had ive gone the route i was suggested.... it would have cost me thousands. I never understood how a shop of that reputation and knowledge couldn't do what i did, infact at that point, that was the first time id had the cam cover off this car. Moving forward i trust none of these shops. Nothing personal but i don't trust them so im really careful to outline my expectations from the off.

it was another well known indie that may have let me down with shim servicing but i couldn't prove it.

more importantly, i keep a keen eye on that shim and its been fine ever since.... on the flip side, up till that point, reddish were excellent and their general treatment of the car was the best i've received to date, it was just the handling of that situation which was admittedly a total anomaly.

i must also say the car has a great whopping blower attached to it pushing over 540hp , its been used very hard and its going to break at some point.... you have to pay to play... just how it is.

****FYI- im only mentioning this as i was mentioned earlier in the thread. i have no issues with reddish and would use them again and happily move forward from our last experience as it was many years ago now, it was a shame our first experience was a difficult one.*****

Does it ever make you wonder that you removed the correct 'stuck' shim given how easily it came out, or perhaps it was a different one, and somehow they told you the wrong one?

Im sure if I remember correctly that Beedub checked all the valve clearances himself and replaced all the ones that were needed

 

[abar121]

OP, it does look like a case of the motor being buzzed by changing down too early and at too high revs. Witness marks of the valves hitting a piston or more, indicate this.

I'm a little concerned that any shop would have sent you out with cam / follower wear that severe, especially given the anticipated usage. Not what I would expect from a specialist. I'm a bit confused with the drawn out diagnosis, given that Mr Vanos has heard similar many times in the past and was contacted early in the diagnosis process.

I have no problem with cars being correctly driven on track, but any potential issues will for exposed for sure.

 

[Beedub]

Really great read thanks OP and fantastic its sorted. I'd have been tempted by a replacement s54.

without being an arse to reddish, things happened a long time ago.....but i did actually have some issues with reddish back in the day..... basically i paid them for a valve check, they did the valve check which they did but reported the stuck a shim, but buttoned the car back with the stuck shim without giving me any resolution to the issue ( no tolerance) they then reported id need to remove the cams etc to unearth the shim but they would need the car booked back in ( leaving me driving and potentially damaging things) ... i had no choice and took the car home, removed the valve cover myself and removed and re-shimmed the "stuck" shim once the car had cooled down, it took me all of 2 hours to sort the complete issue . I gently pressed down the valve spring with a plastic trim tool to take the tension off the rocker arm which slid with ease and the shim came out without the slightest protest.... i then re shimmed and have kept an eye on it since and no issues. Had ive gone the route i was suggested.... it would have cost me thousands. I never understood how a shop of that reputation and knowledge couldn't do what i did, infact at that point, that was the first time id had the cam cover off this car. Moving forward i trust none of these shops. Nothing personal but i don't trust them so im really careful to outline my expectations from the off.

it was another well known indie that may have let me down with shim servicing but i couldn't prove it.

more importantly, i keep a keen eye on that shim and its been fine ever since.... on the flip side, up till that point, reddish were excellent and their general treatment of the car was the best i've received to date, it was just the handling of that situation which was admittedly a total anomaly.

i must also say the car has a great whopping blower attached to it pushing over 540hp , its been used very hard and its going to break at some point.... you have to pay to play... just how it is.

****FYI- im only mentioning this as i was mentioned earlier in the thread. i have no issues with reddish and would use them again and happily move forward from our last experience as it was many years ago now, it was a shame our first experience was a difficult one.*****

Does it ever make you wonder that you removed the correct 'stuck' shim given how easily it came out, or perhaps it was a different one, and somehow they told you the wrong one?

they sent me a video so knew where the issue was... also the report clearly stated which cylinder was the issue. .... i definitely removed the under tolerance one.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

That’s quite a saga! Having heard the précis, it was good to fill in the details.
The frequency of reports of follower wear with or without consequent flattening of the associated cam(s) is slowly increasing as our cars get older. Certainly, it’s something that we should consider if the top end sounds unusually tappety. Especially since catching it early might avoid the need to replace the camshaft as well as the followers. I’m hoping the Schrick followers will prove more durable than OEM, but time will tell.
As for the centre caps, I removed mine from two sets of track wheels after a friend complained about me throwing shrapnel at his car on a track day! Two of mine are somewhere at Thruxton and another couple are at Eastern Creek. Your wheels without centre caps actually look better than those with, they’re more in keeping with the menacing appearance of your Zed.
Thanks for the great write up and also for the recent advice. I’ve ordered the item we discussed so I’ll let you know how I get on once it lands in Aus.

Hi Richard,

I'm sorry I have been meaning to reply to your last whatsapp, this week has been manic! I've got my fingers crossed the Schrick ones will prove more durable - if you do get tot he point where you're going to inspect/replace yours do let me know what condition you find them in - it'd be useful information for us all at this point!

:lol: I'm glad I'm not the only one who's lost centre-caps - to be honest I figured it's pretty normal - plus it looks like the ones I lost may have been slightly cheaper plastic from the non-OE types they sell on ebay. Heyho, not fussed, I'll definitely be taking them off ahead of next trackday whenever thay may be!

Glad you enjoyed the write up - took a bit of time to get it all down, but I felt it might have been interesting to the few of us who track these cars at least! Very excited to see the pics when your 'item' arrives - keep us informed, I just may look into it myself if I can distract the wife from the baby spending for a few minutes :lol:

No worrys, I’ve been pretty swamped with my new found responsibilities!
I’m about to have an inspection service so I’ll make sure that the condition of the followers is noted.
The centre caps I lost here were OEM, so I’m not sure that is a guarantee!
The ‘item’ looks great on the website. I hope it’s a straightforward swap when the time comes - I’ll add pics here or start a separate thread once it’s fitted and tested.

 

[z4mcza]

IF you want this forum to be full of knowledge and insight for future owners, drawn from people's experiences owning running and using their cars, then why blast me for posting my experiences?

Brilliant post/s Ed. Thank you for sharing.