The plane crash in the Alps

pvr

pvr

Dutch
 Ruler of the South East UK
I do not understand the 8 - 10 minutes descend without any communication with Air Traffic Control. Seems rather similar to that Malaysian plane that just disappeared.

No idea what to think of it - hijack seems a bit unlikely without being able to signal anything to the outside world especially with the locked doors nowadays, but if it was engine issues for 10 minutes then I can not believe there would not have been a word about it.

Terrorism seems unlikely as well as crashing in a mountain is not particularly useful either.
 
Sudden de-compression seems to be what some folk think happened and the pilots didn't get their oxygen masks on in time !

As to what may have caused the sudden de-compression - anyone's guess.

Sad times :(
 
I read that there was a crack in the windscreen that lead it to fail and caused a rapid de-compression, at the altitude they were flying (38,000ft) they wouldn't have stood a chance of getting their oxygen masks on quickly enough to stay conscious, especially if the windscreen failed completely.

A very sad time for aviation, I work on aircraft, hits very close to home.
 
All very strange, if the de-pressurisation was so quick then how did the plane go into a rapid dive while maintaining heading? The auto pilot setting would have to have been changed, giving time for a mayday call at least.
 
At 38000ft you have 20 seconds to react to a decompression.

Ample time to put on a mask.

Rapid decompression would have meant descending at 6500fpm+ not at a leisurely 3800fpm so i think its not the case.
 
shawna said:
At 38000ft you have 20 seconds to react to a decompression.

Ample time to put on a mask.
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Maybe not - Someone who has experienced rapid decompression;

“When it happens you literally feel like the back of the aircraft has exploded. Your tongue is swallowed by your throat in a second, your ears begin to hurt and teeth become a hundred times more sensitive,” he wrote.

“If you already have an ear infection or a bad filling, you're likely to pass out as a result of the instant pain. None of these can be simulated in a sim or be trained for.

On top of that, the cockpit fills with a cold mist that freezes the skin. All of these aspects make it incredibly difficult to recognise and reach out for the oxygen mask and autopilot controls"

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/germanwings-crash-what-is-rapid-decompression-actually-like-10134053.html
 
shawna said:
At 38000ft you have 20 seconds to react to a decompression.

Ample time to put on a mask.

Rapid decompression would have meant descending at 6500fpm+ not at a leisurely 3800fpm so i think its not the case.
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Completely incorrect.

Your thought process would be the case in a sterile environment but in reality there would be a misting in the flight deck, debris and dust flying all over the place and if they didn't have at least their lap straps fastened they could be thrown around the flight deck a lot can happen in a very short space of time.
 
I agree. Also you can not simply say that you have 20 seconds to react to rapid decompression.

That may be the case if you are expecting it to happen during training, but to go from drinking your coffee in the flight deck to experiencing the above in a split second, I seriously doubt the crew would be able to quickly don their masks, especially if the windscreen did fail. They could have then had a 400kt + wind at minus 60 degrees C in their face. No chance then.

This is all speculation anyway, let's hope the CVR gives up some clues, and the DFDR once they find it.
 
It's being reported just a few minutes ago that the one of the pilots was outside the cockpit during the last few minutes of flight and was pounding on the door trying to get back in to the cockpit. This is being reported from a review of the cockpit voice recorder.
A pilot on the doomed Germanwings airliner that went down into the Alps Tuesday apparently was locked out the cockpit moments before the plane crashed, killing all 150 on board, the New York Times reported Wednesday afternoon.

An investigator told the paper that evidence from a voice recorder indicated that the pilot had left the cockpit and could not re-enter. He tried knocking lightly on the door, and when there was no immediate answer, he began knocking more loudly.

Finally, the source told the Times, audio on the recorder revealed: “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.”

The source said investigators did not yet know why the pilot left the cockpit. French aviation investigators said earlier Wednesday that they had not the "slightest explanation" for what happened.

More details about the fatal flight have emerged one day after the crash. The State Department said three Americans were on board: Yvonne Selke, a government contractor from Northern Virginia; her daughter Emily Selke, a 2013 graduate of Drexel University in Philadelphia; and a third American who authorities did not immediately identify.
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At 38,000 ft, if a crew member leaves the cockpit, the other is required to have his mask on (not always done).
 
Why would they be stripping the bark off something :?

:P

Joking aside, it is very strange that the descent would be so controlled if it were deliberate though. You'd have thought the pilot would just point the nose at the ground if that were the case - why take 10 minutes when you could crash it in 5 ? But I guess there must have been some control input otherwise the autopilot would just have kept flying it straight and level. All very strange.

I think there needs to be the addition of some alternate way of a pilot opening the door from the outside though, in the event something like this happens.
 
The doors do have the ability to be opened from the outside incase both flight crew become incapacitated. It's an emergency code and if there is no answer after 60 seconds they door will auto unlock for 15 seconds.
It sounds as if the remaining pilot in the flight deck MAY have cancelled/denied the request which kept the door locked.

It's all very strange :/
 
Bing said:
I think there needs to be the addition of some alternate way of a pilot opening the door from the outside though, in the event something like this happens.
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I was thinking this morning.

I can think the only way is a key code that the pilots know. But if a terrorist gets hold of them, they must not break and give it to them. The only problem is if one pilot wanted to let people into the cockpit, im sure they could just tell them, and they could gain entry.

Not an easy one to work out as retina, fingerprints etc are all no good as they would just have fingers etc cut off!
 
pritchp said:
The doors do have the ability to be opened from the outside incase both flight crew become incapacitated. It's an emergency code and if there is no answer after 60 seconds they door will auto unlock for 15 seconds.
It sounds as if the remaining pilot in the flight deck MAY have cancelled/denied the request which kept the door locked.

It's all very strange :/
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Damn it, was typing at the same time.
 
I am an engineer on the A320 family aircraft and roughly I remember that the crew has a toggle switch inside the cockpit on the centre pedestal which can be open, normal or locked. It is usually left in normal so that when the flight deck door is closed it will automatically lock. The crew control who can and can not enter the flight deck using this switch. They also have a camera in the forward galley area to see who is trying to enter.

There is a keypad on the outside of the forward lavatory wall so that crew can enter the flight deck with the correct code (hostesses with food and coffee for example) without disturbing the crew. The door only unlocks after 30 seconds of entering the correct code if there is no response from the flight deck. This can also be overridden from inside the flight deck though to deny access.

To me if he could not gain entry from the outside, then the other member of crew has denied him access or the pilot locked out has not entered the code correctly or at all. In which case this points to a deliberate act.

The slow-ish rate of descent is the most odd though.
 
I also typed at the same time! Haha. My unlock times may be wrong then...

Either way, it looks suspicious.
 
is it me or does anyone find it absolutely bizarre and slightly worrying that a pilot can be locked out of their cockpit. Yes there very well be rules in place to prevent pilots to be on their own, but we are human and so tend to break rules with familiarity. Yes we need to prevent anyone trying to gain entry to the cockpit, but still you can't have a system where one of your two pilots can be locked out.
 
Perhaps a member of the cabin crew should swap places with the pilot when he walks out so there are always 2 people in there. That may prevent the situation where:

- The pilot suddenly dies
- The pilot is suicidal
- The pilot is a terrorist


Leaving one person in the cockpit which is locked, even if there is some sort of override after x number of seconds, is never going to be great. It only takes a few seconds to put the plane in a terminal descent.

As a side note - I never understand that on those short flights why the pilot always seems to have to go to the loo ...
 
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