The myth of German engineering

[Busterboo]

I've had 20+ of my own cars, plus another 20+ company cars, then my wives' and hire cars. The only ones that have had major* mechanical faults have been ... German: a Golf Gti Mk2, a Porsche 911 and an E89.

Good cars to drive, though, but not as reliable as the British, American, Brazilian, Turkish, Australian, Japanese, French or even Italian I've had.

It's about time the myth of German engineering was blown out the window.

*p.s. Including BMW wheels that crack.

 

[sars]

Two things, first as a Mechanical Engineer, working with a German Engineering company, I would say that they are exceptionally good at mass producing high quality products, efficiently and economically and that's why their economy is industrial based and not service based like ours.

Second, there is so much more to engineering, than just reliability. If one chooses you can make a car and every component within last 25 years, though the cost would be prohibitive, so you wouldn't sell many, which drives up costs. As in life engineering is full of compromise and then there are just human mistakes in both design and assembly, the cracking wheel issue, is a prime example, designed for aesthetics, tested and approved by TÜV and then failed on roads that were ill maintained.

 

[tiglon]

Finally, an extensive and conclusive study on the reliability of car makers grouped by nationality. Excellent sample size

Apologies if this blows your theory out of the window, but I've had 3 Italian cars and all needed scrapping at the end of my ownership. I've had 5 German cars and only 1 has had any kind of major problem. Obviously none of that means anything, because I've provided no data about the age, mileage, usage or maintenance of the cars, and it's only a handful of cars out of millions produced....

 

[flybobbie]

"It's about time the myth of German engineering was blown out the window" said the Tiger tank commander....

Still my Zed has been the best overall car owned, only spoiled by poor design of tail lights, poor quality wire of roof (but i suppose has lasted what might be thought of as reasonable after 12 years) and poor quality control on boot wiring.
I cannot fault anything else, always passes Mot's, never had a car do that.
No rust.
Even the Toyota MR2 i owned dripped oil. It had the suspension weld mod done and the red paint kept going chalky white.
Peugeot 106 only fault the door dropped and hinge needed welding. Think i replaced the rear brake cylinders. 164k miles when sold.

I have had two customers who worked for German companies, both left saying they couldn't get on with their stubborn attitude.
One German lad said he left VW under a cloud regard the emissions scandal.

 

[Smartbear]

"It's about time the myth of German engineering was blown out the window" said the Tiger tank commander....

Still my Zed has been the best overall car owned, only spoiled by poor design of tail lights, poor quality wire of roof (but i suppose has lasted what might be thought of as reasonable after 12 years) and poor quality control on boot wiring.
I cannot fault anything else, always passes Mot's, never had a car do that.
No rust.
Even the Toyota MR2 i owned dripped oil. It had the suspension weld mod done and the red paint kept going chalky white.
Peugeot 106 only fault the door dropped and hinge needed welding. Think i replaced the rear brake cylinders. 164k miles when sold.

I have had two customers who worked for German companies, both left saying they couldn't get on with their stubborn attitude.
One German lad said he left VW under a cloud regard the emissions scandal.

Was the cloud produced by an engine or by his actions?
Rob

 

[Roberltd2]

 

[Marcoose]

All my cars had their problems, but then, I’m a mathematician, I don’t rely on engineers to solve problems. oke:

Anecdotally, my English and Italian cars were nothing but trouble. The American cars were pretty good. The Japanese by far the most reliable. I’ve only had Brazilian girlfriends, though. They were brilliant. :lol:

 

[True-Blue]

If you could combine the reliability of a Honda with the rust resistance of a Z4… you’d be laughing

 

[Pondrew]

If you could combine the reliability of a Honda with the rust resistance of a Z4… you’d be laughing

Right; new Supras all round then?

 

[Argyll Andy]

If you could combine the reliability of a Honda with the rust resistance of a Z4… you’d be laughing

Right; new Supras all round then?

:violent1: :rcard: :chairfight: :stir:

 

[Marcoose]

Right; new Supras all round then?

I saw one yesterday. Beautiful motors. Is the convertible or T top coming out?

 

[Pondrew]

Beautiful motors.

Funny how we all have different tastes. I was just thinking how ugly they are.

 

[Argyll Andy]

Beautiful motors.

Funny how we all have different tastes. I was just thinking how ugly they are.

You’ve redeemed yourself, partially :tumbleweed:

 

[Silverstar]

During my years in the motor trade and personally having had German cars for over 25 years and only had a couple of major issues on BMWs, rocker broke on my E30 325i and steering pump failed on my E46, auto gearbox issues on a couple of VW Golfs but equally I've also had Japanese and French cars that have big issues, head gasket failures on a Peugeot and what's supposed to be the ultra reliable Toyota Corolla, big end bearing go on a Supra, gearbox on a Honda Civic and another Toyota. So make of that what you will.

 

[tiglon]

I saw a yellow Supra the other day, looked sensational! If only someone would do a convertible conversion...

 

[Silverstar]

I saw a yellow Supra the other day, looked sensational! If only someone would do a convertible conversion...

That's already been done, it's called a BMW Z4! :rofl: :fuelfire:

 

[tiglon]

I saw a yellow Supra the other day, looked sensational! If only someone would do a convertible conversion...

That's already been done, it's called a BMW Z4! :rofl: :fuelfire:

I'd take a Supra Targa over a Z4, maybe that would be an easy diy? :lol:

 

[Chris_D]

Somewhat of a generalisation.
I have worked in engineering for over 30 years in the UK and NL in various industries from Nuclear, through to Aerospace to Semiconductor and now Space and am currently working at consultant capacity for a German firm in Hamburg.
Some industries are dominated by different nations and German companies obviously dominate the European automotive manufacturing sector of course. While I would agree to an extent that their reputation for reliability has suffered as a result of various competion-derived, political and/or cost-down exercises and scandals I would still place them in a prominent position in a general quality league table amongst global manufacturers.
I would suggest the top of the league reliability moniker goes to manufacturers such as Nissan or other far-eastern manufacturers where 'risk reputation management' is given due importance and when considered as a corporate marketing factor.
I haven't owned that many cars during my lifetime, due in part to holding on to my E36 Coupe for about 20 years and 285k miles until it was t-boned. It was still going strong and the engine compression was still within factory spec. Why get rid of something while it still exceeds expectations and functions as designed? It looked a bit tatty around the edges but was supremely comfortable and did the job. Was also still on the original clutch and exhaust front section when it was summarily executed.

The British made snotbox I owned before the E36 was no end of trouble and proved that old addage of 'save a penny pay a pound'. I thought buying a cheapo motor just to get me to work would help me get my mortgage savings off the ground. What a mistake that was! :headbang:

I've been given various cars to use by clients over the past few years ranging from a Skoda Superb (really superb) to a Tesla Model S (novelty value, quick off the mark but NO character or driving enjoyment, range anxiety and build quality issues).
I wouldn't buy BMW again. They're a different brand to what they were and not in a good way imo.
Looks like the E85 is going to stick around for a few years yet. It's reliable, robust and relatively simple engineering compared to today's plasticky, over-engineered, over-featured, over-complicated messes.

However, my primary mode of transport these days is a good old bike.
:evil:

 

[Zulu4]

It's about time the myth of German engineering was blown out the window.

Agree, I love the look and feel of German cars, but they are definitely no more reliable than the many other makes I've owned.

My other car is a VW Phaeton which was supposed to be over-engineered, yet it has constant problems. I've changed air struts numerous times along with electrical gremlins, wheels made of monkey metal and they all suffer from severe door corrosion (rusting within 3 years of manufacture).

My wife's car is a RR Evoque, the components which regularly break are the door locks (made in Germany). Steering racks (made by Bosch) are notorious for snapping the aluminium (!!!) retaining bolts thus losing PAS while driving.

 

[grannyknot]

I've had 20+ of my own cars, plus another 20+ company cars, then my wives' and hire cars. The only ones that have had major* mechanical faults have been ... German: a Golf Gti Mk2, a Porsche 911 and an E89.

Good cars to drive, though, but not as reliable as the British, American, Brazilian, Turkish, Australian, Japanese, French or even Italian I've had.

It's about time the myth of German engineering was blown out the window.

*p.s. Including BMW wheels that crack.

Well that is just your experience, it doesn't speak for anyone else but you.
As for reliability, engineers can only be held partially responsible, by far the majority of the blame falls on the bean counters and their revisions to save money.