The jab ..

[Argyll Andy]

What's the difference between someone who has been vaccinated and someone who has had the virus?

Ones had Covid, ones not

 

[Deleted member 32480]

What's the difference between someone who has been vaccinated and someone who has had the virus?

Ones had Covid, ones not

About right for this thread

 

[enuff_zed]

What's the difference between someone who has been vaccinated and someone who has had the virus?

Ones had Covid, ones not

About right for this thread

Ah but.................. could have had covid a while back, recovered, then had the jab too. :roll:

 

[Stevo1987]

Ones had Covid, ones not

About right for this thread

Ah but.................. could have had covid a while back, recovered, then had the jab too. :roll:

 

[Deleted member 32480]

Ones had Covid, ones not

About right for this thread

Ah but.................. could have had covid a while back, recovered, then had the jab too. :roll:

But is there immunity from having Covid and how does it compare to the vaccination immunity? That's the question that no one is answering. That's the question that anyone involved in profiting from the vaccine doesn't want the ask nor have the answer (if it's positive). I am sure if there wasn't Pharma would be singing from the rafters about the fact that it doesn't if it didn't.

 

[Nictrix]

About right for this thread

Ah but.................. could have had covid a while back, recovered, then had the jab too. :roll:

But is there immunity from having Covid and how does it compare to the vaccination immunity? That's the question that no one is answering. That's the question that anyone involved in profiting from the vaccine doesn't want the ask nor have the answer (if it's positive). I am sure if there wasn't Pharma would be singing from the rafters about the fact that it doesn't if it didn't.

I thought that before the vaccine when they spoke about herd immunity they were talking about everybody being exposed to the virus, recovering and then being immune..... without having a vaccine

 

[Deleted member 32480]

I thought that before the vaccine when they spoke about herd immunity they were talking about everybody being exposed to the virus, recovering and then being immune..... without having a vaccine

BoJo changes his policy and his stance like the wind changes direction.

I really would love to see any info on people who have recovered from the virus vs immunity through vaccination.

There must be more information out there as the virus has bee around 14+ months. 100% studies must have been done and if they were negative they would be using them right now to beat us all with a stick to increase the uptake of the jabs.

Which gives me hope- as the fact that we haven't heard anything about it means that natural immunity must be working.

People who are worried about being forced to take the vaccine should have a look into Resolution 2361 which I believe the UK is part of.

Couple of extracts here:
-Paragraph 7.3.1 - ensure that citizens are informed that the vaccination is NOT
mandatory and that no one is politically, socially, or otherwise pressured to get
themselves vaccinated, if they do not wish to do so themselves;
-Paragraph 7.3.2 - ensure that no one is discriminated against for not having been
vaccinated, due to possible health risks or not wanting to be vaccinated;

Article here:
https://pace.coe.int/en/files/29004/html

 

[Flyingfifer]

I thought that before the vaccine when they spoke about herd immunity they were talking about everybody being exposed to the virus, recovering and then being immune..... without having a vaccine

Basically yes but the same problem was present, they type of virus doesnt lend itself to long term immunity so you would catch it over and over BUT for that same reason we will need to vaccinate over and over (just like flu) lovely wee money maker for Big Pharma!

Goldman Sachs published a report on gene therapy medicine :
“The potential to deliver ‘one shot cures’ is one of the most attractive aspects of gene therapy, genetically-engineered cell therapy and gene editing. However, such treatments offer a very different outlook with regard to recurring revenue versus chronic therapies,”

“GILD is a case in point, where the success of its hepatitis C franchise has gradually exhausted the available pool of treatable patients,”

“In the case of infectious diseases such as hepatitis C, curing existing patients also decreases the number of carriers able to transmit the virus to new patients, thus the incident pool also declines … Where an incident pool remains stable (eg, in cancer) the potential for a cure poses less risk to the sustainability of a franchise.”

I mean when the devil himself is telling you, who's to argue :idunno:

As for R2361 I noticed that was provisional from 2021 so not sure if we would be bound by that?

 

[Deleted member 32480]

As for R2361 I noticed that was provisional from 2021 so not sure if we would be bound by that?

I believe so but I wouldn't put 100% on it- proves a starting point for research. Doesn't seem to be to much on it and I have tried duckduckgo as I thought google might be censoring it.

We are up to 71 people in our age group that tested positive within 28 days of a covid test that have died in hospital (or a doctor said they had it based on symptoms without testing) that didn't have any pre-existing medial conditions:

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/weekly-total-archive/
(most current figures, tab 3 in spreadsheet).

It's got all the way to 518 if we include people with medial conditions!

Quick- we better book ourselves in for a vaccine.... Dangerous world for us out there.

 

[Flyingfifer]

We are up to 71 people in our age group that tested positive within 28 days of a covid test that have died in hospital (or a doctor said they had it based on symptoms without testing) that didn't have any pre-existing medial conditions:

It's got all the way to 518 if we include people with medial conditions!

Quick- we better book ourselves in for a vaccine.... Dangerous world for us out there.

 

[Vornwend]

Resolution 2361

There has been research on people infected. It generally shows that immunity is durable and is present up to 8 mths after infection for >95% of people tested. By that they mean that at least 3 out of 5 immune system components (T Cells, B Cells , CD4 etc) could recognise and respond to Covid 19. Obviously as time goes on more research will be needed but the hope (and early evidence) is that the vaccines will have similiar long lasting impacts. Of course no two people have the same immune response (to vaccines or infection) so these are averages and there will be some who are better protected and some worse, hence why there are sporadic reports of re-infection.

 

[Deleted member 32480]

There has been research on people infected. It generally shows that immunity is durable and is present up to 8 mths after infection for >95% of people tested. By that they mean that at least 3 out of 5 immune system components (T Cells, B Cells , CD4 etc) could recognise and respond to Covid 19. Obviously as time goes on more research will be needed but the hope (and early evidence) is that the vaccines will have similiar long lasting impacts. Of course no two people have the same immune response (to vaccines or infection) so these are averages and there will be some who are better protected and some worse, hence why there are sporadic reports of re-infection.

So it look likely that they could basically make this a flu jab type thing where they could vaccinate 3 times every two years. Or perhaps twice a year to keep things on the safe side.

 

[Flyingfifer]

There has been research on people infected. It generally shows that immunity is durable and is present up to 8 mths after infection for >95% of people tested. By that they mean that at least 3 out of 5 immune system components (T Cells, B Cells , CD4 etc) could recognise and respond to Covid 19. Obviously as time goes on more research will be needed but the hope (and early evidence) is that the vaccines will have similiar long lasting impacts. Of course no two people have the same immune response (to vaccines or infection) so these are averages and there will be some who are better protected and some worse, hence why there are sporadic reports of re-infection.

Do you have a source for this? Id quite like a look at the data.
Another bit of research someone else referenced in relation to transmission reduction appeared to show the vaccine efficacy dropped off significantly (circa 80% down to circa 30%) between 90-120 days after receiving the vaccine.

Fingers crossed it does last at least a year, the longer the better

 

[Vornwend]

There has been research on people infected. It generally shows that immunity is durable and is present up to 8 mths after infection for >95% of people tested. By that they mean that at least 3 out of 5 immune system components (T Cells, B Cells , CD4 etc) could recognise and respond to Covid 19. Obviously as time goes on more research will be needed but the hope (and early evidence) is that the vaccines will have similiar long lasting impacts. Of course no two people have the same immune response (to vaccines or infection) so these are averages and there will be some who are better protected and some worse, hence why there are sporadic reports of re-infection.

So it look likely that they could basically make this a flu jab type thing where they could vaccinate 3 times every two years. Or perhaps twice a year to keep things on the safe side.

Yes, I think that's looking more and more likely

 

[Vornwend]

There has been research on people infected. It generally shows that immunity is durable and is present up to 8 mths after infection for >95% of people tested. By that they mean that at least 3 out of 5 immune system components (T Cells, B Cells , CD4 etc) could recognise and respond to Covid 19. Obviously as time goes on more research will be needed but the hope (and early evidence) is that the vaccines will have similiar long lasting impacts. Of course no two people have the same immune response (to vaccines or infection) so these are averages and there will be some who are better protected and some worse, hence why there are sporadic reports of re-infection.

Do you have a source for this? Id quite like a look at the data.
Another bit of research someone else referenced in relation to transmission reduction appeared to show the vaccine efficacy dropped off significantly (circa 80% down to circa 30%) between 90-120 days after receiving the vaccine.

Fingers crossed it does last at least a year, the longer the better

Here you go:

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00071-6

 

[Flyingfifer]

Here you go:

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00071-6

Legend

Its unfortunate that the actual data isnt there (more specifically the methodology) but it is what it is.

The first one is particularly positive, hopefully these results are replicated in the vaccine!

I did notice that: "But the researchers also found that people who become reinfected can carry high levels of the virus in their nose and throat, even when they do not show symptoms. Such viral loads have been associated with a high risk of transmitting the virus to others"
So theoretically vaccinated people and people that have a previous exposure immunity are far more likely to spread the virus.

If the vaccine can provide 8months of protection that's at least reasonable, we can only hope that the time bares that out. Hopefully as well the vaccine can be refined and enhanced over time to better protect over a longer period of time!

 

[Vornwend]

Here you go:

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00071-6

Legend

Its unfortunate that the actual data isnt there (more specifically the methodology) but it is what it is.

The first one is particularly positive, hopefully these results are replicated in the vaccine!

I did notice that: "But the researchers also found that people who become reinfected can carry high levels of the virus in their nose and throat, even when they do not show symptoms. Such viral loads have been associated with a high risk of transmitting the virus to others"
So theoretically vaccinated people and people that have a previous exposure immunity are far more likely to spread the virus.

If the vaccine can provide 8months of protection that's at least reasonable, we can only hope that the time bares that out. Hopefully as well the vaccine can be refined and enhanced over time to better protect over a longer period of time!

I think it does look quite hopeful. I'm not sure that "can carry high levels of the virus in their nose and throat" is the same as saying that all reinfected will but yes its suggests a possibility. I think they will have to adjust the vaccine as new resistant variants emerge. One expert said recently that we have to remember this virus has only been in humans for a short time and its still got lots of potential to mutate to dodge the vaccine.

 

[Nanu]

Other countries will dictate whether we will need vaccination passports just like they did with PCR tests. No passport no entry. So those that choose not to be vaccinated then that is their choice which I fully support. They will just have to live with other countries not wanting them. As for the same in this country, private businesses can do what they like. Even now if a shop does not want to grant you access they can refuse entry. They don't even have to justify their reason. The same will hold true for vaccination passports. If a business does not want to do business or engage with you that is their choice, just the same as it's your choice whether to be vaccinated or not.

If you are an employer you have legal obligations under the Health & Safety at Work Act towards your employees and customers.

What's the difference between someone who has been vaccinated and someone who has had the virus?

Ive had both!

 

[Deleted member 32480]

Other countries will dictate whether we will need vaccination passports just like they did with PCR tests. No passport no entry. So those that choose not to be vaccinated then that is their choice which I fully support. They will just have to live with other countries not wanting them. As for the same in this country, private businesses can do what they like. Even now if a shop does not want to grant you access they can refuse entry. They don't even have to justify their reason. The same will hold true for vaccination passports. If a business does not want to do business or engage with you that is their choice, just the same as it's your choice whether to be vaccinated or not.

If you are an employer you have legal obligations under the Health & Safety at Work Act towards your employees and customers.

What's the difference between someone who has been vaccinated and someone who has had the virus?

Ive had both!

What super powers do you have now?

 

[Nanu]

I am still alive