The jab ..

[Pondy]

The reason we call it public health and not my health is we are not interested in your personal health..we are interested in mankind as a whole..

That has got to be the best quote I have seen for a year. Top marks that man.
If only Herbie Hancock had used that phrase back in March 2020!

 

[Pondy]

If you don't want it that is fine by me and I suspect the majority of people on this forum. That is your choice. Just enjoy your life and the restrictions your choices bring.

That I also 100% agree with. You don't want to play the game, fine, but don't complain if the rest of us play the game without you!

 

[Deleted member 32480]

If you don't want it that is fine by me and I suspect the majority of people on this forum. That is your choice. Just enjoy your life and the restrictions your choices bring.

That I also 100% agree with. You don't want to play the game, fine, but don't complain if the rest of us play the game without you!

Lol do you lot really think (or more like hope) that we are going to create a two tier society?

 

[Pondy]

Lol do you lot really think (or more like hope) that we are going to create a two tier society?

It's not about that. It's about if you are not immune, why should you be able to bring the virus (having probably mutated several times and compromise the vaccines) back to this Country to start the cycle all over again? Your civil liberties will never get far against 55 million others'. Bearing in mind economics will play a massive part in it; the GOV won't like it.

 

[Deleted member 32480]

Lol do you lot really think (or more like hope) that we are going to create a two tier society?

It's not about that. It's about if you are not immune, why should you be able to bring the virus (having probably mutated several times and compromise the vaccines) back to this Country to start the cycle all over again? Your civil liberties will never get far against 55 million others'. Bearing in mind economics will play a massive part in it; the GOV won't like it.

You know the jab is around 90% effective right?

1 in 10 people are going to bring it back that have had a jab.

I think you have no idea, are angry because someone doesn't see things the way you do and are making up scenarios that probably won't exist.

 

[Flyingfifer]

It's not about that. It's about if you are not immune, why should you be able to bring the virus (having probably mutated several times and compromise the vaccines) back to this Country to start the cycle all over again? Your civil liberties will never get far against 55 million others'. Bearing in mind economics will play a massive part in it; the GOV won't like it.

I'm not sure if its delusion, propagandised indoctrination or just blind stupidity that is driving your apparent belief that the vaccine automatically solves every problem and that after you get it COVID suddenly disappears.

Do you understand that
A. You will still carry and spread the virus even with the vaccine
B. Sizable groups of the population CANNOT be given the vaccine due to safety concerns
C. We have no evidence whatsoever to suggest that the virus wont mutate within those that are vaccinated
D. Due to A the vaccine only provides protection to the person given it no one else
E. We have no solid understanding of how long these vaccines will actually remain effective, it could be as little as 3 months or as much as 8 months

If this was a smallpox or polio situation where the vaccine was actually going to start eradicating this thing Id be far more inclined to take it but that is not the situation and we still do not know how long it will even remain effective.

 

[Pondy]

I think you have no idea, are angry because someone doesn't see things the way you do and are making up scenarios that probably won't exist.

I will agree I'm angry, yes. Not because people don't agree with me, but because they can't (or won't) see the bigger picture. It's not about me, or you. This is the first time in my lifetime where it isn't about "me", it's about "us"; and like it or not you are part of the "us".

 

[Pondy]

If this was a smallpox or polio situation where the vaccine was actually going to start eradicating this thing Id be far more inclined to take it but that is not the situation and we still do not know how long it will even remain effective.

A) Only smallpox has been eradicated, Polio is alive and well (I know someone who has it).
B) How do you know what the "situation" with eradicating Covid is? Are you secretly president of the WHO? I'm presuming you are not; so why not take it? It surely will do (everyone) more good than harm if you do?

 

[Stevo1987]

If this was a smallpox or polio situation where the vaccine was actually going to start eradicating this thing Id be far more inclined to take it but that is not the situation and we still do not know how long it will even remain effective.

A) Only smallpox has been eradicated, Polio is alive and well (I know someone who has it).
B) How do you know what the "situation" with eradicating Covid is? Are you secretly president of the WHO? I'm presuming you are not; so why not take it? It surely will do (everyone) more good than harm if you do?

Disclaimer: I am usually very very drunk when I post anything on here, so apologies in advance

 

[Pondy]

Disclaimer: I am usually very very drunk when I post anything on here, so apologies in advance

Oi that's copyright infringement

 

[Ed.Straker]

It's not about that. It's about if you are not immune, why should you be able to bring the virus (having probably mutated several times and compromise the vaccines) back to this Country to start the cycle all over again? Your civil liberties will never get far against 55 million others'. Bearing in mind economics will play a massive part in it; the GOV won't like it.

I'm not sure if its delusion, propagandised indoctrination or just blind stupidity that is driving your apparent belief that the vaccine automatically solves every problem and that after you get it COVID suddenly disappears.




Do you understand that
A. You will still carry and spread the virus even with the vaccine
B. Sizable groups of the population CANNOT be given the vaccine due to safety concerns
C. We have no evidence whatsoever to suggest that the virus wont mutate within those that are vaccinated
D. Due to A the vaccine only provides protection to the person given it no one else
E. We have no solid understanding of how long these vaccines will actually remain effective, it could be as little as 3 months or as much as 8 months

If this was a smallpox or polio situation where the vaccine was actually going to start eradicating this thing Id be far more inclined to take it but that is not the situation and we still do not know how long it will even remain effective.

The issue that you and like minded colleagues is this is a war of probabilities....to answer your points..

a) You carry less viral load and spread less effectively when vaccinated

b) Sizeable in your statement is less than 5% of the population

c) We do have evidence that if you are not vaccinated it does mutate, we don’t have any evidence that vaccinated people increase the probability of mutation

d) The whole concept of herd immunity is based not on reducing transmission from an infected person but to starve the virus of eligible hosts by depriving the virus of a significant number of possible hosts through host resistance created largely through vaccination

e) In the absence and luxury of time and quantitive analysis you do the best you can with the then best knowledge....we know from 100s of other vaccines that the probabilities of the vaccines having a prolonged marked positive impact..even if they don’t hit it with another shot..

It’s an imperfect world...however many public health professionals have fought similar battles..they and their medical and scientific colleagues are better positioned to suggest successful strategies than those who are uneducated, ill informed or susceptible to simple popularist negative hypothesis..

So you improve public health probabilities through vaccination...what I don’t see is anything from the anti vaxers is what’s their grand plan?

 

[Flyingfifer]

A) Only smallpox has been eradicated, Polio is alive and well (I know someone who has it).
B) How do you know what the "situation" with eradicating Covid is? Are you secretly president of the WHO? I'm presuming you are not; so why not take it? It surely will do (everyone) more good than harm if you do?

A. I am aware and you miss the point, in the West it is effectively eradicated, 1994 Canada was declared "polio free" along with the rest of the Americas with Europe being declared "polio free" in 2002, the vaccine works and works for life, that is not the case with the covid vaccine with reinfections already being recorded.
B. u wot m8.... I said sizable groups of the population cannot be vaccinated, that is a simple statement of demonstrable fact, why would I need to be the president of the WHO to know that?

 

[Flyingfifer]

The issue that you and like minded colleagues is this is a war of probabilities....to answer your points..

a) You carry less viral load and spread less effectively when vaccinated

b) Sizeable in your statement is less than 5% of the population

c) We do have evidence that if you are not vaccinated it does mutate, we don’t have any evidence that vaccinated people increase the probability of mutation

d) The whole concept of herd immunity is based not on reducing transmission from an infected person but to starve the virus of eligible hosts by depriving the virus of a significant number of possible hosts through host resistance created largely through vaccination

e) In the absence and luxury of time and quantitive analysis you do the best you can with the then best knowledge....we know from 100s of other vaccines that the probabilities of the vaccines having a prolonged marked positive impact..even if they don’t hit it with another shot..

It’s an imperfect world...however many public health professionals have fought similar battles..they and their medical and scientific colleagues are better positioned to suggest successful strategies than those who are uneducated, ill informed or susceptible to simple popularist negative hypothesis..

So you improve public health probabilities through vaccination...what I don’t see is anything from the anti vaxers is what’s their grand plan?

A. False mate, its been found that those that have been vaccinated actually appear to carry more of the virus in their upper respiratory system making them more likely to spread the virus. SAUCE

B. Just around 400,000,000 people then assuming your 5% figure is correct.

C. I'm almost impressed with the gymnastics and straw manning on this one, firstly I didn't claim those not vaccinated couldnt or wouldnt be a platform for mutation, mainly because I'm not an idiot. I also didn't claim that having the vaccine would increase the probability of mutation, I stated, correctly, that we have no evidence to suggest that vaccination would prevent you being the platform for a mutation.

D. I know, but again, you can still be infected and transmit the virus with a vaccine and as studies actually suggest you may indeed be a sort of "super spreader"

E. Indeed yet this isnt like 100s of other vaccines, this is one of if not the very first ever vaccine that is mRNA based therefore we do not have all this wonderful knowledge you claim.

Fantastic for you to crack out insults like "uneducated, ill informed or susceptible to simple popularist negative hypothesis" when you yourself have just demonstrated a lack of knowledge and blind belief based on no hard data.... congratulations.

Again with the "aNtIvAxEr" patter, doesnt really hold water when you're throwing it at people who have encouraged others to be vaccinated, are vaccinated themselves for lots of other things and would like nothing more than this vaccine to be shown to be 100% safe and successful. :roll:

 

[Flyingfifer]

Disclaimer: I am usually very very drunk when I post anything on here, so apologies in advance

Oi that's copyright infringement

This would absolutely explain a lot

 

[Pondy]

A. I am aware and you miss the point, in the West it is effectively eradicated, 1994 Canada was declared "polio free" along with the rest of the Americas with Europe being declared "polio free" in 2002, the vaccine works and works for life, that is not the case with the covid vaccine with reinfections already being recorded.
B. u wot m8.... I said sizable groups of the population cannot be vaccinated, that is a simple statement of demonstrable fact, why would I need to be the president of the WHO to know that?

You took a while; I presume you were using Google to bolster your argument? (how did we argue before Google eh?)

Before we go on: in a previous post you accused me of being stupid. Please do not call me stupid. This is not personal, you do not know me, nor do you know anything about me, as I do not know you, nor anything about you. I am quite happy to have this discussion as long as you keep it civil. Also, I am not your m8 (I presume that is text speak for mate).

You are claiming facts that you have no evidence of; you cannot claim a "sizeable" group as a fact, when the word does not define an amount. That sizeable group, as Ed alluded to, must be less than 5% of the adult population if the take-up rate is 95%. Bearing in mind that people like yourself don't want it, let's say a guess of 2% cannot have the vaccine for "other" reasons. Which, BTW, makes your little club even smaller!

 

[Pondy]

this is one of if not the very first ever vaccine that is mRNA based therefore we do not have all this wonderful knowledge you claim.

I may be wrong, because I can't be arsed to Google it, but I think only the Pfizer vaccine is RNA based; don't think the AstraZeneca one is?!

 

[Flyingfifer]

You took a while; I presume you were using Google to bolster your argument? (how did we argue before Google eh?)

Before we go on: in a previous post you accused me of being stupid. Please do not call me stupid. This is not personal, you do not know me, nor do you know anything about me, as I do not know you, nor anything about you. I am quite happy to have this discussion as long as you keep it civil. Also, I am not your m8 (I presume that is text speak for mate).

You are claiming facts that you have no evidence of; you cannot claim a "sizeable" group as a fact, when the word does not define an amount. That sizeable group, as Ed alluded to, must be less than 5% of the adult population if the take-up rate is 95%. Bearing in mind that people like yourself don't want it, let's say a guess of 2% cannot have the vaccine for "other" reasons. Which, BTW, makes your little club even smaller!

I dont have the dates when each area of the world were declared polio free memorised no :roll:

I actually offered 3 possible explanations for the content of your arguments here one of which was blind stupidity. "U wot m8" is a meme.


Are you seriously arguing the semantics of "sizable" when based even on 5% is a little short of 400,000,000. That's ignoring the fact that the 5% is actually grossly underrepresenting reality, for example the global pop under 16 is about 25%, currently pregnant is roughly 5% and those with immunodeficiencies is about 3% (USA numbers) so that gives you about 33% or 1/3 of the worlds population...... is a third "sizable"?

AstraZeneca uses a DNA platform rather than an RNA platform

 

[Deleted member 32480]

Just got to laugh otherwise you will cry with the MSM/governments handling of all this.

1st off they grind these people down for a year with all the fear mongering.

Then they get their "golden ticket" and they still keep pounding them.

Obviously they can't vaccinate the under 16's so now they will make them feel guilty for seeing their grandchildren?

 

[Smartbear]

If there’s a perceived danger do you think the government should keep quiet about it or do you think they should inform the population?
Rob

 

[Nanu]

Certain people on this forum have stated they are pro choice and society should not force them to have a vaccine they do not want. Yet they rabbit on and on producing all sorts of "facts and arguments" showing us why we are wrong trying to influence us why we should not have the vaccine. These idiots can not and will not take any notice of anyone. They are transfixed in their opinions and we are all wrong.

The best course of action is to ignore them and get on with our lives and let them reap the consequences of their choices.