Such a shame...

Jas667 said:
[This might be stereotypical I suppose but Im just talking from experience... When travelling I met alot of Americans and Canadians and their attitude to DUI was crazy. They didnt see a problem with it at all and did it all the time. It was shocking for me because in Britain it is very very frowned upon. Do you find the attitude I found is widespread through America?
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Well Jas667, with almost 1.5 million people getting arrested for DUIs each year in the U.S., I would say that there is a big problem, wouldn't you? Just think of how many arrests that weren't made. I bet those numbers would be staggering. In addition, approximately 16,000 deaths occur each year in accidents involving alcohol. As to the tragedy in Florida, I don't believe that alcohol played a factor. Unfortunately, many of the DUIs and deaths involving alcohol involves minor drivers.
 
I arrest plenty of DUI's - I'm with you grdz4roadster. Minor drivers are a HUGE problem today as I have stated in other posts. Like grdz4roadster, I also belive it starts at home and with the amount of responsibilities given to youngsters too soon in this day. Parents want to be their childrens' 'freinds' instead of being parents first. Friendship comes later, parenting comes first.
 
Need to put this in prespective. I do not mean to be flippant - but death finds all of us sooner or later. Some sooner than others and obviously the mode differs. So - it is indeed sad that this young man's parents will miss him. I also believe in personal responsibility. This young man's actions were responsible for 3 other people's death - but then again these 3 choose to enter this car after a party in the wee hours of the morning with poor visibility due to the dark and them they decided to hit speeds in excess of 230kph.

I am a physician and have seen lots of death. Death does not bother me. I grew up in Pakistan and saw kids dying for no good reason. Sometimes it was due to dehyrdation.... If they had come to ER 2 or 3 hours earlier - they might have been only dehydrated by 5% and we could have saved them with iv fluids.

Wars and landmines also kill children.... We do not seem to have threads for all these dead children. What makes a driver of an M5 deserve this thread and mulitiple others? At least he died by his own hand.

Think about it....
 
Don't forget it is only in the UK that the driver is insured, everywhere else the car is insured - irrespective of the driver ... When I turned 18, I drove all types of cars in NL as the car was insured, not me.
 
enfield said:
Need to put this in prespective. I do not mean to be flippant - but death finds all of us sooner or later. Some sooner than others and obviously the mode differs. So - it is indeed sad that this young man's parents will miss him. I also believe in personal responsibility. This young man's actions were responsible for 3 other people's death - but then again these 3 choose to enter this car after a party in the wee hours of the morning with poor visibility due to the dark and them they decided to hit speeds in excess of 230kph.

I am a physician and have seen lots of death. Death does not bother me. I grew up in Pakistan and saw kids dying for no good reason. Sometimes it was due to dehyrdation.... If they had come to ER 2 or 3 hours earlier - they might have been only dehydrated by 5% and we could have saved them with iv fluids.

Wars and landmines also kill children.... We do not seem to have threads for all these dead children. What makes a driver of an M5 deserve this thread and mulitiple others? At least he died by his own hand.

Think about it....
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I put this up because it is a BMW forum, not a war or death forum. I was highlighting the issues with regards to there being no bhp limit for young drivers which resulting consequences like this one. No offence but there is no need for you to come on spouting what you have seen and how this young mans life is only a 'death'. I too have seen enormous amounts of suffering all over the world first hand but do not feel the need to lecture others on it
 
This is Jas667's thread so let keep the discussion as he has requested to the bhp limit for younger drivers... :)
 
Jas667 said:
I put this up because it is a BMW forum, not a war or death forum. I was highlighting the issues with regards to there being no bhp limit for young drivers which resulting consequences like this one. No offence but there is no need for you to come on spouting what you have seen and how this young mans life is only a 'death'. I too have seen enormous amounts of suffering all over the world first hand but do not feel the need to lecture others on it
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You misunderstand and I am sorry for offending you. I was mainly referring to how someone got flamed for being "flippant". I was also tired of reading about this teen in multiple threads on multiple forums.

I owe you an apology because your thread is different than the others I read. You bring up the point of limiting bhp for new or inexperienced drivers. I think that this is an interesting concept. I can see the pros and cons. The pros are obvious - if he was driving a car limited at 55mph then the damage would have been less. The con is whether we want big brother taking even more of our individual freedoms in the name of safety. I think that we should be personally responsible and should have the freedom to do some idiotic things such as flying planes, mountain climb, ski, snowboard, bungee jump, rock climb, drive powerful automobiles etc.
 
If I may...the difference is in age and experience. While the only way to gain experience and respect is to do, it's doing in a proper environment under the appropriate supervision and guidance with the right attitude that makes the difference. While nothing obviously is guaranteed, certainly under optimal training conditions, a proper judgement approach can be insituted in order to avoid such catastrophies.
 
enfield said:
Jas667 said:
I put this up because it is a BMW forum, not a war or death forum. I was highlighting the issues with regards to there being no bhp limit for young drivers which resulting consequences like this one. No offence but there is no need for you to come on spouting what you have seen and how this young mans life is only a 'death'. I too have seen enormous amounts of suffering all over the world first hand but do not feel the need to lecture others on it
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You misunderstand and I am sorry for offending you. I was mainly referring to how someone got flamed for being "flippant". I was also tired of reading about this teen in multiple threads on multiple forums.

I owe you an apology because your thread is different than the others I read. You bring up the point of limiting bhp for new or inexperienced drivers. I think that this is an interesting concept. I can see the pros and cons. The pros are obvious - if he was driving a car limited at 55mph then the damage would have been less. The con is whether we want big brother taking even more of our individual freedoms in the name of safety. I think that we should be personally responsible and should have the freedom to do some idiotic things such as flying planes, mountain climb, ski, snowboard, bungee jump, rock climb, drive powerful automobiles etc.
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No worries. I totally agree, I hate the way the UK is sleepwalking into a big brother state, however I feel with a bhp limit for younger drivers it would take away alot of risk to them and other road users. I do not feel that if a 17 year old isnt allowed into a oub to buy a pint of beer they should be piloting things like an M5. I know I was nowhere near mature enough to handle such a car at that age...probably still not mature enough :lol:
 
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