Solicitors
- Thread starter steve853
- Start date
Would you trust a solicitor who gave advice for free? Being serious, not sure who is a solicitor on here and who is not but there are quite a few intelligent folks on here who may give some advice if you posed a question (and a few thicko's, like me, who would just offer an opinion) 
Get your point!
What it is, I sold something privately to a guy in Telford for £150. He says it is in poor condition and he wants £120 back. He did see detailed photos before I posted it to him
I disagree, and offer £60 as a gesture of good faith. He refuses this offer, still demanding £120
So I tell him to send it back, and I'll give him a full refund, but he won't, saying he has sent the item for refurbishment, and I have to pay.
I have basically told him to bugger off, he now says he is going to take me to the small claims court for the money.
Now I think I have been reasonable, and he can basically whistle, but what do others think?
Steve
What it is, I sold something privately to a guy in Telford for £150. He says it is in poor condition and he wants £120 back. He did see detailed photos before I posted it to him
I disagree, and offer £60 as a gesture of good faith. He refuses this offer, still demanding £120
So I tell him to send it back, and I'll give him a full refund, but he won't, saying he has sent the item for refurbishment, and I have to pay.
I have basically told him to bugger off, he now says he is going to take me to the small claims court for the money.
Now I think I have been reasonable, and he can basically whistle, but what do others think?
Steve
steve853 said:
Ok, discalaimer... I'm not a solicitor, and I'm drunk.... hence spelling discalaimwhatsit wrong LOL
I would say the fact that you offered full refund covers you 100%... if he wanted some compensation he should of sorted that out before sending the item off for refurbishment. I'd say he is trying his luck, but it would be interesting to hear what others have to say. The only thing I would say is I think you offering anything at all may leave you in a -ive position as it may seem to be an admission that there was something wrong... either way I still think your offer of refund should cover you nonetheless.
From what you have said, You offered a full refund and then attempted to negoitiate a partial refund, both were unsatisfactory to him. He decided to incurr aditional costs in having an item that was in dispute sent off for refurbishment. I would say he is foolish to take on the additional cost of the court fee with very little chance of recovering anything in the circumstances you have described. Any legal advice he takes is likely to reflect this.
Keep all future communication civil and stick only to the facts. However, as you have made your position clear, I would now wait to see if he continues to court. If he decides to do so you will have the opportunity to respond to his claim in writing to the court (supply evidence in the form of copies of all communication) You can also consider making a counter claim for any costs you have incurred.
Civil courts use a combination of common sense and 'reasonableness' in entering judgements and from what you have said you would appear to have acted reasonably.
You risk losing the sympathy of the court if you send abusive or sarcastic communications which are later produced before the court.
Keep all future communication civil and stick only to the facts. However, as you have made your position clear, I would now wait to see if he continues to court. If he decides to do so you will have the opportunity to respond to his claim in writing to the court (supply evidence in the form of copies of all communication) You can also consider making a counter claim for any costs you have incurred.
Civil courts use a combination of common sense and 'reasonableness' in entering judgements and from what you have said you would appear to have acted reasonably.
You risk losing the sympathy of the court if you send abusive or sarcastic communications which are later produced before the court.
lacroupade
Veteran
I'd agree totally with Z4alfie.....Small Claims Court is even more reasonable frankly so you shouldn't have a problem. And defo keep youre cool in correspondence. You certainly aren't liable for the cost of any repairs if he's had them effected while this conversation about rebate/refund has been going on.
Out of interest what the hell was this item that he thought needed a, 80% price reduction ?
And was it an eBay sale? You mention Paypal but not clear what the medium of sale was?
Out of interest what the hell was this item that he thought needed a, 80% price reduction ?
And was it an eBay sale? You mention Paypal but not clear what the medium of sale was?
The item is a rifle. All sold legally and above board, so no worries, I am no Michael Ryan or anything, simply an honest, hardworking Firearms Certificate holder.
I bought the rifle for £200, sold it to him for £150, in exactly the same condition. Paypal has the same policy as ebay, in that they don't cover it - so Paypal found in my favour on those grounds.
Basically I wasn't letting him have it for £30, I'd rather have it back. To buy a similar rifle in pristine condition would be about £700-£800 (and 15 odd years younger!)
My communications have been civil and reasonable, his have been ranting emails and threats of court action, "I've ad legal adive off a solicitor" and all that, but I have not heard anything today - I told him my offer of a full refund has been withdrawn as he has had the goods for 14 days now, so I guess I'll just wait and see.
I bought the rifle for £200, sold it to him for £150, in exactly the same condition. Paypal has the same policy as ebay, in that they don't cover it - so Paypal found in my favour on those grounds.
Basically I wasn't letting him have it for £30, I'd rather have it back. To buy a similar rifle in pristine condition would be about £700-£800 (and 15 odd years younger!)
My communications have been civil and reasonable, his have been ranting emails and threats of court action, "I've ad legal adive off a solicitor" and all that, but I have not heard anything today - I told him my offer of a full refund has been withdrawn as he has had the goods for 14 days now, so I guess I'll just wait and see.
lacroupade
Veteran
Well I'd say its pretty clear he wants it or he wouldn't have sent it for refurb....and I guess with a £150 gun you'd expect to have to be doing something to it FFS.
I think you've done all you need to now....wouldn't bother responding to his correspondence other than with a polite "nothing to add" because it may end up getting out of hand.
Just to pick up on one point out of pure interest; if you sell something that eBay doesn't allow (knives, guns etc..) are you saying that the Paypal dispute process just doesn't kick in (because of its parent companies policies) or if it does, finds in the sellers favour by default?
I think you've done all you need to now....wouldn't bother responding to his correspondence other than with a polite "nothing to add" because it may end up getting out of hand.
Just to pick up on one point out of pure interest; if you sell something that eBay doesn't allow (knives, guns etc..) are you saying that the Paypal dispute process just doesn't kick in (because of its parent companies policies) or if it does, finds in the sellers favour by default?
Not a solicitor but I think there are a number of issues
1. You offered a full refund that was refused. That covers statutory rights which he has now given up. I assume you have an email record of this offer and refusal
2. Auctions and other similar sites work on the principle of sold as seen. However online purchases have a required 2 week cooling off period. I think you have given this.
3. Once a price is agreed, there is very little grounds for renegotiation. He is pushing his luck after realizing that it may cost more to refurb and he had a set budget in mind. Probably put up to it by refurb on the principle of don't ask don't get. I suspect the small claims court seems to be a threat. Although never good to be threatened by someone who has just bought a gun!
4. I am concerned about sale of rifle over the Internet. If it is anything that requires FAC, there should really be a face to face transaction.
1. You offered a full refund that was refused. That covers statutory rights which he has now given up. I assume you have an email record of this offer and refusal
2. Auctions and other similar sites work on the principle of sold as seen. However online purchases have a required 2 week cooling off period. I think you have given this.
3. Once a price is agreed, there is very little grounds for renegotiation. He is pushing his luck after realizing that it may cost more to refurb and he had a set budget in mind. Probably put up to it by refurb on the principle of don't ask don't get. I suspect the small claims court seems to be a threat. Although never good to be threatened by someone who has just bought a gun!
4. I am concerned about sale of rifle over the Internet. If it is anything that requires FAC, there should really be a face to face transaction.
lacroupade
Veteran
braingirl said:Not a solicitor but I think there are a number of issues
1. You offered a full refund that was refused. That covers statutory rights which he has now given up. I assume you have an email record of this offer and refusal
2. Auctions and other similar sites work on the principle of sold as seen. However online purchases have a required 2 week cooling off period. I think you have given this.
3. Once a price is agreed, there is very little grounds for renegotiation. He is pushing his luck after realizing that it may cost more to refurb and he had a set budget in mind. Probably put up to it by refurb on the principle of don't ask don't get. I suspect the small claims court seems to be a threat. Although never good to be threatened by someone who has just bought a gun!
4. I am concerned about sale of rifle over the Internet. If it is anything that requires FAC, there should really be a face to face transaction.
Not sure about the fourth point, although you'd be surprised how easy it is to legally carry a weapon in a public place providing you haver a licence. But even though I don't think the OP sold this item via eBay, the fact is that DSRs don't apply to online auctions, with the possible exception of BINs.
z4alfie said:
What costs are you referring to Z4alfie? This is a small claim. On that basis solicitor costs are not recoverable unless you are referring to the limited fixed cost available (£80 ??) and in that respect I certainly would not take this matter on. Also Z4alfie what sort of counter claim would he be likley to make in this instance exactly? You have lost me there.
OP, you have made an offer he has not responded. You appear to have acted reasonable at all times and it is apparent the ball is now in the buyers hands.
You all need to remember this is a private sale so not governed by the consumer protection stat provisions mentioned above. It is governed by contract law.
The question is does the product match the description on the basis of the advert and the price paid?
As said, from my limited understanding of firearms I would say that is a cheap weapon.
Caveat emptor.
braingirl said:
All firearms sold long distance get done by a registered Firearms Dealer (RFD). My local RFD sent it to his local RFD, and they do the transfers between them, just so you don't think I just posted it to him!
This was a totally private sale, none of the online auction sites will allow the sale of firearms, they are not allowed to by law. It is possible for me (an FAC holder) to sell to another FAC holder directly (I think), but it is much safer to do it via RFDs.
Thanks for all the advice and input though. As it happens I have heard nothing further from the guy, so hopefully that's an end to it.
DannyBoy said:
Yes, I was referring to the fixed cost, He had not said he had instructed a solicitor (and I would agree it is not a viable case) I am generally happy with the advice I gave in the earlier post, based as it was on the information provided. Had I realised it was exam conditions, I would have taken more time to explain myself. :roll: Anyway, off to drop the top on this lovely sunny day.
Are you a solicitor alfie?
Were you not always taught to always explain yourself at law school, especially to clients? The above question is hardly pressing and unlikely to appear in the COA anytime soon, is it.
Who do you work for? How long have you been qualified? What do you do as your understanding of civil law seems short of substance (and your grammar is bad to boot too!).
Real bug bearer of mine, people who “pretend”. :roll: :wink:
Anyway, I’m off to the pub to watch the football in anticipation of my hearing on Monday morning.
Were you not always taught to always explain yourself at law school, especially to clients? The above question is hardly pressing and unlikely to appear in the COA anytime soon, is it.
Who do you work for? How long have you been qualified? What do you do as your understanding of civil law seems short of substance (and your grammar is bad to boot too!).
Real bug bearer of mine, people who “pretend”. :roll: :wink:
Anyway, I’m off to the pub to watch the football in anticipation of my hearing on Monday morning.
lacroupade
Veteran
roofless said:DannyBoy said:
Most of this thread is way over my head but it is a 'bug bear'
And that's the least useful contribution to this thread :- I know :wink:
LMAO!! Noooo, a 'bug bearer" is someone who helps to carry the itsy-bitsy little coffin of a bear bug that died when it fell off the bug bear.....I hope thats grammatically correct? :?
roofless said:DannyBoy said:
Most of this thread is way over my head but it is a 'bug bear'
And that's the least useful contribution to this thread :- I know :wink:
Lol, waiting for that!
At least the advice is sound!
lacroupade said:roofless said:DannyBoy said:
Most of this thread is way over my head but it is a 'bug bear'
And that's the least useful contribution to this thread :- I know :wink:
LMAO!! Noooo, a 'bug bearer" is someone who helps to carry the itsy-bitsy little coffin of a bear bug that died when it fell off the bug bear.....I hope thats grammatically correct? :?
No, albeit it is near enough and does not waffle on.