Should I re-map ?

[ZedConvert]

[ref]bryand[/ref], think you're right...

"With the release of the Z4 35is BMW will be offering only one transmission; the DCT. Our understanding is that the manual 6 speed Z4 (specifically the clutch) can ‘t handle the torque that comes with the engine upgrade in the car."

 

[Dave 2 dogs]

Thanks guys

 

[road warrior]

That is hellover an upgrade, another 100 bhp?? Wonder how long the clutch will hold out ? And better upgrade them brakes too...

 

[Anonymous]

Nominally the manual gearbox fitted to the 18i 20i 28i is rated at 350nm aka 258 lb ft..

So a Celtic type tune at stage 3 would be 290 lb ft would exceed this..

The stage 2 tune at 258 ft lb would be ok which is what the 28i does as standard..

Therefore if you are prudent / paranoid with a manual transmission 18i/28i one should restrict yourself to a tune state analogous to a standard 28i!

Auto box has a higher 450nm torque limit..

Of course if you had the Evolve tune at 350 ft lb that would exceed the 450 nm of the auto box..but the auto box shuts down the engine if torque limits are exceeded..

thoughts? :rofl:

 

[Smartbear]

Nominally the manual gearbox fitted to the 18i 20i 28i is rated at 350nm aka 258 lb ft..

So a Celtic type tune at stage 3 would be 290 lb ft would exceed this..

The stage 2 tune at 258 ft lb would be ok which is what the 28i does as standard..

Therefore if you are prudent / paranoid with a manual transmission 18i/28i one should restrict yourself to a tune state analogous to a standard 28i!

Auto box has a higher 450nm torque limit..

Of course if you had the Evolve tune at 350 ft lb that would exceed the 450 nm of the auto box..but the auto box shuts down the engine if torque limits are exceeded..

thoughts? :rofl:

My evolve tune doesn’t reach that torque level, as you mentioned earlier it’s difficult to keep it pinned for more than 10 or 20 seconds because of the speeds it will reach & i don’t fancy prison food very much
Rob

 

[Smartbear]

That is hellover an upgrade, another 100 bhp?? Wonder how long the clutch will hold out ? And better upgrade them brakes too...

Don’t forget the 28i makes 240bhp+ and the 18i has the same engine
I has a 3.0si before and my 20i stops better than that ever did with standard brakes
Rob

 

[Dave 2 dogs]

Smartbear
Would you remap if you had my car ? Or do you think it’s powerful enough as standard?

 

[Smartbear]

Smartbear
Would you remap if you had my car ? Or do you think it’s powerful enough as standard?

I probably would as a bit more is always a bit more fun, 35i owners seem to enjoy a fair bit more shove & they’re the ones to ask to be honest
Rob

 

[Anonymous]

Smartbear
Would you remap if you had my car ? Or do you think it’s powerful enough as standard?

The remap to 28i standards would be a good advance and very noticeable, IMHO, the incremental move to 280BHP+ is noticeable but you get into the law of diminishing returns..having said that, I would re-map it to 280bhp with a manual gearbox despite the 350nm limit.

The 35 guys go waaayyyyyyyyyy beyond the limits of their gearboxes when tuned and do they care?

 

[enuff_zed]

So, as a newbie seriously considering the Smartbear approach, but who intends to keep the car until they take my licence away due to infirmity, I have now been given cause to stop and think. OK, so a clutch is a consumable, but I don't want to be messing about replacing the gearbox.
With this in mind, and aimed towards Mr Bear, as he seems likely to be keeping his car for a while, is the 280 bhp worth the added risk, or should I stop at the 258 level.
Mine is a manual by the way.

 

[Anonymous]

So, as a newbie seriously considering the Smartbear approach, but who intends to keep the car until they take my licence away due to infirmity, I have now been given cause to stop and think. OK, so a clutch is a consumable, but I don't want to be messing about replacing the gearbox.
With this in mind, and aimed towards Mr Bear, as he seems likely to be keeping his car for a while, is the 280 bhp worth the added risk, or should I stop at the 258 level.
Mine is a manual by the way.

Good question..non simple answers..

First off all if you have any warranty left then maybe you shouldn't remap till the warranty runs out, Celtic tuning does offer (unlike most) a top up warranty but getting BMW to play ball may be interesting..

Ignoring warranty issues..IMHO you might as well go for the 280bhp scale remap as the amount of time exceeding the torque limit is very low and when a torque limit is applied generally you don't know which gear(s) are limiting..

There doesn't appear to be any history of BMW manual gearboxes breaking up due to power increases AFAIK?

Having been in the industry my suspicion is that number is a marketing number and the real number is way above that arbitrary number but less than the next model up at 470nm torque limit..

If you abuse the clutch it may wear prematurely but you sound like captain sensible /slow? :rofl: so vulgar activities liking dumping the clutch or slipping it mid corner to induce wheel-spin does not seem to be part of your modus operandi?

Long term issues to be more concerned on the N20 engine series are the cam chain ensemble and oil pump drive.

AFAIK your later engine may benefit from the in production silent upgrades to the cam chain and oil pump..real OEM will show this..

Personally I've made the same choice to keep my Z4 E89 till they take the keys away from me or I can't remember where I left them..

To that end , I've remapped it via Celtic to the stage 3 280BHP level and bought a new, latest version cam chain upgrade kit and plan to do the same for the oil pump.

I change the oils annually which means around 3-5k plus quality filters and oil.

I plan to change the auto box oil /filter at around 50k-60k..

In the meantime I just love the top end rush from the N20 at 280BHP and frighten myself to see if I can count to 15 before chickening out from a standing start by which stage it would be hitting around 100mph which is enough for the roads where I live..

 

[enuff_zed]

If you abuse the clutch it may wear prematurely but you sound like captain sensible /slow? :rofl: so vulgar activities liking dumping the clutch or slipping it mid corner to induce wheel-spin does not seem to be part of your modus operandi?

AFAIK your later engine may benefit from the in production silent upgrades to the cam chain and oil pump..real OEM will show this..

Oi! That's a bit presumptive isn't it?

To be honest, the 30+ Capris I've owned in the past got the yee-haa element out of my bloodstream. I now prefer to have it up and moving into 2nd gear before doing any of that 'old-git-racer' stuff. Must be my mechanical background giving me some sympathy for the car. I much prefer to string a few flowing bends together. Any numpty with a heavy boot can go fast in a straight line, after all.

Thanks for the info on the cam chain and oil pump. I will check them out.

On what you say, I think the 280 is the answer (but I'll wait until the Maintenance Pack runs out)

Of course, with that much more torque through the range, there really isn't so much necessity to hit stratospheric revs anyway to make rapid progress, so the theoretical max torque shouldn't be touched very often.

Wife just announced she wants to buy a puppy! That's enough ammo for me.... I'm in a great position for a little bit of Z4 petting.

 

[Burple]

What mpg do people get on a 20i with conservative driving, post-remap?

Dunno about consrvative driving, but an average of 'normal' (30-40 round town and cruise control on at about 70) and 'spirited' (fun getting up to the speed limit on 70mph roads and country roads) I'm getting about 33.5mpg.. about 1 up from previous to the remap

 

[Burple]

I imagine for the 18i it must feel astonishing!!

Yes.. Yes it does!! :rofl: :driving:

155bhp to 269... :evil: 8)

 

[R.E92]

I don't know why anyone wouldn't tune to be honest. The 35i in standard form is 300bhp and to me it feels uneventful so I'm not sure I follow the logic that 280bhp is too much power.

The remap to 28i standards would be a good advance and very noticeable, IMHO, the incremental move to 280BHP+ is noticeable but you get into the law of diminishing returns..having said that, I would re-map it to 280bhp with a manual gearbox despite the 350nm limit.

The 35 guys go waaayyyyyyyyyy beyond the limits of their gearboxes when tuned and do they care?

The DCT transmission can handle a lot of torque. The Getrag 7DCI600 is rated at 600nm, which is around the figure most 35i cars end up at.

There's people pushing 800nm through it so I feel quite safe tuning it.

 

[enuff_zed]

I don't know why anyone wouldn't tune to be honest. The 35i in standard form is 300bhp and to me it feels uneventful so I'm not sure I follow the logic that 280bhp is too much power.

The remap to 28i standards would be a good advance and very noticeable, IMHO, the incremental move to 280BHP+ is noticeable but you get into the law of diminishing returns..having said that, I would re-map it to 280bhp with a manual gearbox despite the 350nm limit.

The 35 guys go waaayyyyyyyyyy beyond the limits of their gearboxes when tuned and do they care?

The DCT transmission can handle a lot of torque. The Getrag 7DCI600 is rated at 600nm, which is around the figure most 35i cars end up at.

There's people pushing 800nm through it so I feel quite safe tuning it.

I appreciate that, but I was asking about the manual box in my 20iS. What would you suggest is a safe torque figure for that ?

 

[Smartbear]

I don't know why anyone wouldn't tune to be honest. The 35i in standard form is 300bhp and to me it feels uneventful so I'm not sure I follow the logic that 280bhp is too much power.

The remap to 28i standards would be a good advance and very noticeable, IMHO, the incremental move to 280BHP+ is noticeable but you get into the law of diminishing returns..having said that, I would re-map it to 280bhp with a manual gearbox despite the 350nm limit.

The 35 guys go waaayyyyyyyyyy beyond the limits of their gearboxes when tuned and do they care?

The DCT transmission can handle a lot of torque. The Getrag 7DCI600 is rated at 600nm, which is around the figure most 35i cars end up at.

There's people pushing 800nm through it so I feel quite safe tuning it.

I appreciate that, but I was asking about the manual box in my 20iS. What would you suggest is a safe torque figure for that ?

Evolve said my car was safe with their map applied & they’d had no issues, i trusted their opinion and it’s been fine.
Rob

 

[enuff_zed]

Thanks Rob, I've been watching your posts on this for quite a while. Decision made for November it seems.
Martin

 

[Dave 2 dogs]

I’ve got to be honest
You guys are scaring the crap out of me

 

[ZedConvert]

[ref]Dave 2 dogs[/ref], oke: