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Royal Marine murderer?
- Thread starter Silverfox
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I quite readily accept other people's points of view but I'm not worried about saying what I think which includes if I think someone has a misguided view on reality.
I have family and friends in the armed forces and I know what they have gone through and what other people have gone through. If you have friends or family that have been in that situation then that would explain you saying you have every idea. I assume you have to be saying that.
Would be helpful if you can clarify the 'as always' remark?
I have family and friends in the armed forces and I know what they have gone through and what other people have gone through. If you have friends or family that have been in that situation then that would explain you saying you have every idea. I assume you have to be saying that.
Would be helpful if you can clarify the 'as always' remark?
I would say that this is a conflict that is very difficult to wage in reference to the Geneva convention. As the GC was formulated for a conflict between opposing countries using a UNIFORMED Army. In this case. The terrorists disguise themselves as civilians. Which was punishable by death in the world wars. Because as soon as you remove your uniform. You are considered a spy and are outside the GC.
As per the idea that a war for oil is taboo. I would suggest that someone whom feels this way. Try and live their life without oil based products. Or consider if they could pay double or triple what they currently pay for oil based products. If the flow of oil were cut off. The western civilizations would be flung into a severe depression and or civil war.
Yet. We should expect our troops to be a cut above. Yet mindful that they are not involved in a normal conflict and are operating without clearly defined targets.
As per the idea that a war for oil is taboo. I would suggest that someone whom feels this way. Try and live their life without oil based products. Or consider if they could pay double or triple what they currently pay for oil based products. If the flow of oil were cut off. The western civilizations would be flung into a severe depression and or civil war.
Yet. We should expect our troops to be a cut above. Yet mindful that they are not involved in a normal conflict and are operating without clearly defined targets.
Great post OP, I think bigdogs point about a uniformed army is valid, if the terrorists want to disguise themselves as civilians they they don't have military rights IMO, I can't even imagine an active soldiers life.
Darren
Darren
Can't understand how people sign up for the armed forces and then use the brutality they witness or "enemies" try to subject them to as an excuse for any sort of behaviour. If you are going to sign up for armed forces you have to expect to encounter things and people you don't like or don't agree with, it doesn't mean that you can just do whatever you want and use the horrific nature of your job as an excuse.
It's sad when anyone loses their life, but these people are paid (quite well) to take risks, risks they are fully aware of, risks some of them get a buzz out of. Using the excuse of witnessing brutality against friends or colleagues in conflict as an excuse to behave like a moron doesn't wash.
The guy in this case deserves what he gets, the attitude that comes across in the footage is enough to tell you that he is a complete and utter moron. To be honest it irks me that I pay taxes that will go towards looking after the idiot.
Underlying this whole debate is the legitimacy and need for this conflict in the first place. The British government seem happy enough for a bit of collateral damage in their pursuit of natural energy resources, minerals etc.
It's sad when anyone loses their life, but these people are paid (quite well) to take risks, risks they are fully aware of, risks some of them get a buzz out of. Using the excuse of witnessing brutality against friends or colleagues in conflict as an excuse to behave like a moron doesn't wash.
The guy in this case deserves what he gets, the attitude that comes across in the footage is enough to tell you that he is a complete and utter moron. To be honest it irks me that I pay taxes that will go towards looking after the idiot.
Underlying this whole debate is the legitimacy and need for this conflict in the first place. The British government seem happy enough for a bit of collateral damage in their pursuit of natural energy resources, minerals etc.
Carol M said:I quite readily accept other people's points of view but I'm not worried about saying what I think which includes if I think someone has a misguided view on reality.
I have family and friends in the armed forces and I know what they have gone through and what other people have gone through. If you have friends or family that have been in that situation then that would explain you saying you have every idea. I assume you have to be saying that.
Would be helpful if you can clarify the 'as always' remark?
Yes I have a mate who has served in Afghanistan but not now and family in the services RAF.
My view is as stands that in this case if the guy is found to have murdered then should be brought to
Justice. Emotions about the war generally should be kept to one side.
Tim.
Luckily your friend came home safely, ours came home in a coffin.
You and I will sleep safely in our beds tonight because of the likes of him.
I'm not disputing what the Marine did was wrong, of course it was but my view is he shouldn't be treated as if he committed murder on civvy street.
Also you still haven't clarified for me your snide remark?
You and I will sleep safely in our beds tonight because of the likes of him.
I'm not disputing what the Marine did was wrong, of course it was but my view is he shouldn't be treated as if he committed murder on civvy street.
Also you still haven't clarified for me your snide remark?
A very complex discussion - my view is not based on knowledge or personal experience . It seems to me that what has happened is acutely damaging to the professionalism , reputation and integrity of our Forces . I understand and appreciate how our " boys " over there must feel seeing their comrades murdered and maimed almost on a daily basis but to shoot someone in cold blood in revenge is surely not morally acceptable in any way and brings down the perpetrator to the level of the terrorist. The act was wholly premeditated in any one's eyes so was an act of murder and should be treated as such.
My personal opinion.
My personal opinion.
Wow look at the passion it brings out from us sat in our arm chairs. I think the situation is way more complicated than any one here can imagine although I think T2 has more comprehension than most. I did 25 years in the RAF and thank God for two things. 1) I never had to go to an active combat zone. 2) I wasn't in the Army who seem to be constantly going to combat zones and God rest their soles either them or their mates fail to return. If you have an opinion and we all do then please please just remember how little about the state of mind, situation or fear for life we really know or are able to comprehend of what's happening out there.
The guys and girls that do make it back should be understood and not judged.
Hope this doesn't offend anyone.
The guys and girls that do make it back should be understood and not judged.
Hope this doesn't offend anyone.
Darren Slone said:Great post OP, I think bigdogs point about a uniformed army is valid, if the terrorists want to disguise themselves as civilians they they don't have military rights IMO, I can't even imagine an active soldiers life.
Darren
So how do you feel about our Special forces, who debadge and go behind enemy lines?
My view is if my son had done this I'd be ashamed of him.
The guy was in custody, and the tape that was released made it clear that the sgt knew what he was doing. We didn't see the full tape, but a military court martial did. If we trust out forces, we have to trust in the systems of justice they have in place.
It's sad, and he may well have been suffering some form of PTSD, but he murdered someone, found guilty by peers and not civilians.
Soldiers are soldiers they keep us all safe let them do their jobs........ turn the video cameras off -
What this Marine did was wrong. Like I said, I don't feel in the slightest bit of pity for the scum he shot.
I believe the circumstances of where he was, what he had experienced should be taken into account.
He wasn't on the streets of the uk he was in Afghanistan having lost many of his mates to the terrorist scumbags and seen their limbs strung up on trees etc.
Yes, he committed murder, yes he knew what he did was wrong, the scum was dying from his injuries anyway from all accounts but I believe his sentence should take all that into account.
I'm hoping they are lenient with him when they sentence him.
I believe the circumstances of where he was, what he had experienced should be taken into account.
He wasn't on the streets of the uk he was in Afghanistan having lost many of his mates to the terrorist scumbags and seen their limbs strung up on trees etc.
Yes, he committed murder, yes he knew what he did was wrong, the scum was dying from his injuries anyway from all accounts but I believe his sentence should take all that into account.
I'm hoping they are lenient with him when they sentence him.
a340driver
Member
With you 100% Carol. We have to try and appreciate what we are doing to these young men when we put them into these environments. But as the head of the Armed Force's, General Houghton said, not severely punishing murders would 'erode the moral ascendancy over our enemies'.
If you're in the military you have to believe that you're doing the right thing, for the right reasons and you're doing it the right way.
Not easy. Being the good guy. But that's what we tell everyone we are.
I hope they take the awful pressures he was under into account when they sentence him too.
If you're in the military you have to believe that you're doing the right thing, for the right reasons and you're doing it the right way.
Not easy. Being the good guy. But that's what we tell everyone we are.
I hope they take the awful pressures he was under into account when they sentence him too.
Stuart Truman said:Darren Slone said:Great post OP, I think bigdogs point about a uniformed army is valid, if the terrorists want to disguise themselves as civilians they they don't have military rights IMO, I can't even imagine an active soldiers life.
Darren
So how do you feel about our Special forces, who debadge and go behind enemy lines?
I think that all combat soldiers should be clearly identified
gov said:A very complex discussion - my view is not based on knowledge or personal experience . It seems to me that what has happened is acutely damaging to the professionalism , reputation and integrity of our Forces . I understand and appreciate how our " boys " over there must feel seeing their comrades murdered and maimed almost on a daily basis but to shoot someone in cold blood in revenge is surely not morally acceptable in any way and brings down the perpetrator to the level of the terrorist. The act was wholly premeditated in any one's eyes so was an act of murder and should be treated as such.
My personal opinion.
and. mine.
Standards must be maintained.
If we fail to meet minimum levels of decency we have no right to be there.
Finisterre said:gov said:A very complex discussion - my view is not based on knowledge or personal experience . It seems to me that what has happened is acutely damaging to the professionalism , reputation and integrity of our Forces . I understand and appreciate how our " boys " over there must feel seeing their comrades murdered and maimed almost on a daily basis but to shoot someone in cold blood in revenge is surely not morally acceptable in any way and brings down the perpetrator to the level of the terrorist. The act was wholly premeditated in any one's eyes so was an act of murder and should be treated as such.
My personal opinion.
and. mine.
Standards must be maintained.
If we fail to meet minimum levels of decency we have no right to be there.
+1
Tim.
"Colonel Richard Kemp, who led British forces in Afghanistan, said the crime was ‘despicable and inexcusable’.
But he added: ‘We should not forget that Marine A volunteered, time and again, to put his own life on the line to protect us back at home.
‘Yes, he should be severely punished for his actions, but he should not be treated in the same way as a common criminal.’ "
Exactly.
But he added: ‘We should not forget that Marine A volunteered, time and again, to put his own life on the line to protect us back at home.
‘Yes, he should be severely punished for his actions, but he should not be treated in the same way as a common criminal.’ "
Exactly.
I can imagine tours of duty are addictive, intense, scary as hell, stressful, immense fun. Letting people return time and again is not necessarily going to be in their best interest.
in the light of this case I feel that the duty of care procedures (whatever they are) should be looked at. Soldier A has let us down but he must have been vulnerable and was deserving of better care.
I feel 5/7 years in prison before parole would be appropriate. I am sorry for him but the message must be sent.
in the light of this case I feel that the duty of care procedures (whatever they are) should be looked at. Soldier A has let us down but he must have been vulnerable and was deserving of better care.
I feel 5/7 years in prison before parole would be appropriate. I am sorry for him but the message must be sent.
Yes Fin, I agree with everything you say apart from the Immense Fun bit.
None of the squaddies I know (or what they've said about their colleagues) look on it as fun of any sort. I'm sure there's a few 'nutters' who see it as fun but the majority hate it.
Most are scared to death tbh but they know its their job and what they've trained for.
As I said its because of the likes of the Marine we can sleep safely in our beds at night.
Some people may like to put a soldiers boots on and then be qualified to pass judgement instead of being armchair judge and jury.
And TIM you still haven't explained your remark to me but I guess you aren't going to?
None of the squaddies I know (or what they've said about their colleagues) look on it as fun of any sort. I'm sure there's a few 'nutters' who see it as fun but the majority hate it.
Most are scared to death tbh but they know its their job and what they've trained for.
As I said its because of the likes of the Marine we can sleep safely in our beds at night.
Some people may like to put a soldiers boots on and then be qualified to pass judgement instead of being armchair judge and jury.
And TIM you still haven't explained your remark to me but I guess you aren't going to?
immense fun. hmm
My experience of services personnel ~ a Navy SBS Captain (ret) for a mate. He absolutely loved the operations.
they were what he lived for.
My experience of services personnel ~ a Navy SBS Captain (ret) for a mate. He absolutely loved the operations.
they were what he lived for.
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