Roof keeps giving

[escknx]

Scretching my head, roof won’t open past 'service mode' step. Cowl opens, roof folds and unlocks but won’t go down to the trunk. No error codes. It says Locking procedure not completed, check for obstructions, but there's none. Once in a while I get A689 Hall Sensor Roof Pack Erected and A693 Micro Switch Roof Pack Stowed, but it’s not consistent and always history codes. If I release pressure screws on hydraulic unit, I can manually fold roof, but not to the very end, I still cannot close trunk completely, like there's 3-5cm gap remains. Then if I tighten screws if closes back easily from the button. Then won’t open completely. If I open and it gets stuck but I keep pressing open button, hydraulic motor works but it does not go down. If I do this many times the middle motor (on that side with 3 of them) gets pretty warm. I still can close it fine after it gets stuck on opening phase. All relays and valves work fine according to Live Data. Hall Sensor Roof Pack sits on open all the time as far as Live Data says. Micro Switch Roof Pack Stowed I just can’t locate. Anyone had similar issues fixed?

 

[RobbiZ4]

... the middle motor (on that side with 3 of them) gets pretty warm.

I assume, you are talking about the solenoids at the hydraulic pump, right? If so, that's normal as they are kept active for a while by the CTM.

Micro Switch Roof Pack Stowed I just can’t locate

That is sitting in the trunk at a top position behind the driver's seat.

Cowl opens, roof folds and unlocks but won’t go down to the trunk.

Well, at first I would check the 2 hallsensors on the right hydraulic cylinder in the trunk (coupling) against tiny traces of rust. Or even better, just replace both against new ones from the E88:
Prepare E88 hall sensors for E89 use
https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=145813

 

[escknx]

Well, at first I would check the 2 hallsensors on the right hydraulic cylinder in the trunk (coupling) against tiny traces of rust. Or even better, just replace both against new ones from the E88

They look brand new, no rust or dirt from what I can tell. I wonder whats the best way of checking if they are faulty with multimeter? Or using live data? How can I manually trigger/untrigger them to see if they respond? Thanks a lot

 

[RobbiZ4]

So far (after many years of research) I can only check it visually:
take a sharp photo, zoom into it, search for orange indicators.

 

[escknx]

That is sitting in the trunk at a top position behind the driver's seat.

Mine has switch behind passenger seat, but not drivers. But looks like there's space for it, maybe cause mine is 2015 or ths US version. This is how it looks
Passenger right side


Driver left side

Well, at first I would check the 2 hallsensors on the right hydraulic cylinder in the trunk (coupling) against tiny traces of rust. Or even better, just replace both against new ones from the E88:

New E88 sensors ordered, whats the best way of replacing them? I assume similar method as with microswitches, to mark and remove 3? bolts, drill out M3*5 bolts? Or it does not involve removing cylinder and can be done from the bottom?

 

[RobbiZ4]

Mine has switch behind passenger seat, but not drivers.

That's ok and identical on all E89. Iassumed you were from UK.

New E88 sensors ordered, whats the best way of replacing them? I assume similar method as with microswitches, to mark and remove 3? bolts, drill out M3*5 bolts?

No, no, no.

Hall sensors are clipped into the hydraulic rams, not screwed. Hope there are MQS pins as well as a crimp tool available, as documented in the HowTo.

Or it does not involve removing cylinder and can be done from the bottom?

You have to remove the interior trims on the right side of the trunk (split the black pins with a nail iron).

There is a long zip tie around the hydraulic cylinder, that fixes the hydraulic line, the plug and the wiring of ghe two hall sensors.

Take photos of its position as well as of the wiring positions!!

Cut the zip tie carefully with a small electronic side cutter. I use a Knipex.

The hall sensors can be clipped off by carefully pushing a tiny screwdriver between the ram (silver) and the housing (black). Keep care on the 4 "arms" of the hall sensors.

Mounting in the opposite order.
AND - don't forget to place a new zip tie around it in the correct manner! It's essential.

 

[escknx]

That's ok and identical on all E89.

While waiting for hall sensors to be delivered from Latvia, I dropped the car to local shop that specialized on German cars, because why not.
Now it does not open at all :x They claim that it was never operational when they checked it out and they suggest to replace whole pump assembly
I see now two new black relays they installed in place of older brown ones. Upon pressing open button all windows roll down and then nothing, open button blinks green and no error codes at all. Relays dont click. I'm looking at wiring diagrams now, I guess they may fry pump or they forgot to connect something. If you know, whats the easiest way to figure out if they cooked pump?

 

[RobbiZ4]

While waiting for hall sensors to be delivered from Latvia, ...

Why not directly from a local BMW dealer? They deliver guaranteed quality.

I dropped the car to local shop that specialized on German cars, because why not.

If that would be a valid argument, German cars in Germany would never fail nor should we have any troubles with garages/work shops.

I see now two new black relays they installed in place of older brown ones.

WHAT?
Only the original, called "salmon relay", may be put into these sockets! Each different nonsense may produce a short.
https://www.zroadster.com/forum/threads/alle-bmw-cabrios-roadster-ersetzt-die-dachrelais-alle-5-jahre-durch-neue.133521/

AUDI, Black Mamba or Peking relays may destroy, the system due to different contact assignments.
In addition, each relay has a resistor mounted internally, that is checked by the CTM before the roof may start to operate.

Hopefully only the Red fuse Box on the right got shot. Each connector on top of the fuse Box has to deliver +12V, the grey one is for the roof.

 

[escknx]

I see now two new black relays they installed in place of older brown ones.

WHAT?
Only the original, called "salmon relay", may be put into these sockets! Each different nonsense may produce a short.
https://www.zroadster.com/forum/threads/alle-bmw-cabrios-roadster-ersetzt-die-dachrelais-alle-5-jahre-durch-neue.133521/

AUDI, Black Mamba or Peking relays may destroy, the system due to different contact assignments.
In addition, each relay has a resistor mounted internally, that is checked by the CTM before the roof may start to operate.

Hopefully only the Red fuse Box on the right got shot. Each connector on top of the fuse Box has to deliver +12V, the grey one is for the roof.

I finally got right salmon 5 pin relays, the first ones they sent were salmon Bosch w 4 pins
Black ones shop installed had different pinouts. Red fuse box seems to be fine, I got 12v on grey there.
Now I'm trying to figure out how to connect new relays, so far I got powers from fuse box connector, both thick red wires on pins 30, and coil ground on pin 85 right across 30, thick brown wires going from same connector. Not sure if this is right.
And I have one thick red and thick brown going into pump not connected to relays and four thin wires, 2 brown, 1 white and 1 orange.
I look at OE wiring diagram from Alldata but it doesnt match my colors available and it does not identify pins clearly, they list pins 2, 4, 5, 8, 6 on each relay.
On a picture, black wire is actually thin brown down the line, it had to be replaced.
Yeah, I no longer have sockets there, shop just discarded them and wired relays directly

 

[RobbiZ4]

What a result after so much weeks!!
At first I'd force the garage owner to rebuilt the original socket configuration.

There is an exakt wiring plan on each salmon relay, just follow it. Each relay is responsible for 1 wire to the pump's motor.

 

[escknx]

There is an exakt wiring plan on each salmon relay, just follow it. Each relay is responsible for 1 wire to the pump's motor.

My only confusion is that relay wiring plan doesn't match BMW wiring diagram for that relay, unless pin 30 is feed to pump and not 12v from fuse, cause usually that the case.

BMW wiring diagram says that pin 2 is 12v from fuse normally open, then closes to pin 6 (power feed to pump) when relay is energized, makes total sense.

But wiring plan on relay shows pin 30 normally closed to pin 87a. What is 87a then? Does that mean that relay pin 30 is power feed to motor, pin 87a is ground and pin 87 is 12v feed from fuse? Otherwise whats 87a thats normally closed?

 

[RobbiZ4]

These relays control the direction of rotation of the pump motor.

Both relays off: motor stops.
Both relays on: motor stops.
One of both relays on: motor rotates left or right.

Does that mean that relay pin 30 is power feed to motor, pin 87a is ground and pin 87 is 12v feed from fuse?

Why not?

 

[flybobbie]

Can't understand why pump needs to reverse.
Pump only needs one power relay if i designed it.
Direction control is done by the valves.
Seems unnecessarily complicated.
Still it it what it is.

 

[RobbiZ4]

Can't understand why pump needs to reverse.

That is not my problem.

Pump only needs one power relay if i designed it.

Maybe ok for elder convertibles.

Direction control is done by the valves.

That is absolutely wrong for E89's.

 

[flybobbie]

In my design i was quoting valves would control direction of rams as in any other motive system.

 

[escknx]

Why not?

Thanks for your help, I've reconnected relays, guys at shop swear they did nothing else, but somehow now it works better then before.
Now roof goes down to the trunk, it just can not complete last step, close the trunk. Roof sits there just fine, I've checked for mechanical interference, pump spins but trunk just does not close.

 

[RobbiZ4]

At 1st I"d double check the pin assignment of the two wires to the motor. Maybe it's running reverse, as this leads to strange movements.

 

[escknx]

At 1st I"d double check the pin assignment of the two wires to the motor. Maybe it's running reverse, as this leads to strange movements.

Pins are good, cause if I switch them, really weird movements happen.
Now sequence goes smoothly, except last step, it says check for obstructions. But trunk opens and closes just fine when sequence begins, so theres no obstructions to it.
Almost like it does not see the roof folded inside trunk, but then pump probably wouldnt spin. Or it spins regardless even if sensor/switch does not detect that roof is already sits inside the trunk?

 

[bigwinn]

Are all hall sensors reading correctly?

I had similar and from memory the hall sensors on the drivers side ram (assuming an RHD car) were sat poorly- so the roof didn’t know the parts were at the end of travel

 

[RobbiZ4]

Are all hall sensors reading correctly?

I had similar and from memory the hall sensors on the drivers side ram (assuming an RHD car) were sat poorly- so the roof didn’t know the parts were at the end of travel

And, in addition, check those two HS against tiny traces of rust. If any doubt, get it replaced by new E88 hallsensors (to be crimped to MQS pins).