Roof issue (not the usual) calling No.5 FIXED!!!

[bigwinn]

Afternoon-

All roof specialists/Number 5...

Let me describe the issues and see if anything sticks

Roof was fine on the car when I got it.
Fitted gap tech module and the battery died- initially I put faults down to a low battery.

But they persisted so I took the gap tech off to see if that was the issue- it wasnt

I relocated the motor to the boot- issue prevails the same... so not associated I don't think.

I've stripped and serviced the boot position switch and had the parcel shelf out to see if thats the issue- I don't think it is

If I reset/disconnect the battery and start from scratch:

No lights or issues.

Roof will unlatch, motor kicks in and it will lower the roof all the way
Doing it back up, roof will raise probably 75% of the way then stops- no motor or noise etc. TOP RED LIGHT on switch constantly blinks.

To re secure I can move the roof to the windscreen and can close using the allen key

I'm thinking a position sensor issue?

Also I noticed this earlier and it doesn't look right, someone has had the cover off and I am not sure what that bent piece of metal is?

Over to you guys...!

 

[bigwinn]

I'm hoping its this for a solution- will have a look tomorrow- not seen this until now?
https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=53729&hilit=Wiring&start=15

 

[Number5]

If the motor is now in the boot, (once unlatched) just connect a 12v battery direct to the motor and see if you can get a full up & down operation by flipping the polarity. This will eliminate any motor, pump and hydraulic issues.

Alternatively, swap the hydraulic lines over to the other ports and also swap the two electrical spade connectors over

My next guess would be to check the wiring loom between the claw motor and the roof ECU as these as are known to breakdown after a few years and can cause this scenario. The roof ECU stops sending power to the motor as it doesn’t know where the roof is

 

[Zedebee]

There’s a pinch point above the passenger window where the frame folds and there’s a tendency for a wire in the loom to break there. It’s really quite difficult to find because the loom is well wrapped up, but it’s worth unbundling it to have a look if you’ve tried everything else. Easy fix once you find the break.

 

[bigwinn]

Thanks for the replies-

I’m going to check the wiring to the claw grabs first I think as it deffo feels like it’s an electrical wiring break thing

Cheers

 

[bigwinn]

If the motor is now in the boot, (once unlatched) just connect a 12v battery direct to the motor and see if you can get a full up & down operation by flipping the polarity. This will eliminate any motor, pump and hydraulic issues.

Alternatively, swap the hydraulic lines over to the other ports and also swap the two electrical spade connectors over

My next guess would be to check the wiring loom between the claw motor and the roof ECU as these as are known to breakdown after a few years and can cause this scenario. The roof ECU stops sending power to the motor as it doesn’t know where the roof is

Had a half hour tinker

Got the inner roof lining off and had a good look at the loom up to the claw motors, look and feel OK with no kinks


Where the loom heads down to the base of the roof on the passenger side, I wasn't happy with the kink in the cabling shown here: had a play and nothing immediate raised its head


However, I got the roof to cycle up and down a few times. When it did stop 75% of the way up, if I pushed back on it, it restarted the motor. I'm thinking there is a break in the wiring between where I can see either side of where I have checked...

 

[G600]

Did you take the wrapping off the loom? I had the same problem and it was a broken wire, Carly found a fault code, have you tried a scanner?

 

[bigwinn]

Did you take the wrapping off the loom? I had the same problem and it was a broken wire, Carly found a fault code, have you tried a scanner?

Does carly diagnose that kind of stuff- I've been putting off getting one!

Where was your wire break- I may disconnect it from the top and pass it back down to get the full length exposure of it to get the cover off

 

[G600]

It was about 2ft from the front of the roof

 

[Zedebee]

On my son’s car the broken wire was along the top of the window. I thought it was a bit closer to the front, but G600 may be right. You would never have known by looking at the loom because it was not obviously compressed or bent. It was the red wire that was broken.

 

[bigwinn]

Gonna get the codes read on inpa

Then pull the loom back from the top to get the shielding off see what’s going on

 

[Number5]

Bigwinn , I've responded to your PM

 

[bigwinn]

Bigwinn , I've responded to your PM

Thank you sir- seen and much appreciated

 

[Jas- USA]

Your hinge lifters are failing. The top will come down but, your system no longer has the need pressure to raise the weight of the top.

Note: Although unusual, your emergency by-pass system within the pump could also be stuck half open.

Both failing hinge lifters or a stuck half open emergency by-pass can cause a loss in pressure need to raise the top of a Z4.

This video has a long winded beginning. However, the guy in the video shows the hinge lifter issue which effected his Z4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecfkS5NDa0U&t=37s

 

[Number5]

Your hinge lifters are failing. The top will come down but, your system no longer has the need pressure to raise the weight of the top.

Note: Although unusual, your emergency by-pass system within the pump could also be stuck half open.

Both failing hinge lifters or a stuck half open emergency by-pass can cause a loss in pressure need to raise the top of a Z4.

This video has a long winded beginning. However, the guy in the video shows the hinge lifter issue which effected his Z4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecfkS5NDa0U&t=37s

As a quick simple check and elimination, I'd first swap the ports and polarity over to see if the problem moves from going up to dropping down

 

[bigwinn]

Your hinge lifters are failing. The top will come down but, your system no longer has the need pressure to raise the weight of the top.

Note: Although unusual, your emergency by-pass system within the pump could also be stuck half open.

Both failing hinge lifters or a stuck half open emergency by-pass can cause a loss in pressure need to raise the top of a Z4.

This video has a long winded beginning. However, the guy in the video shows the hinge lifter issue which effected his Z4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecfkS5NDa0U&t=37s

As a quick simple check and elimination, I'd first swap the ports and polarity over to see if the problem moves from going up to dropping down

i'm still sure its a wire break in that loom from the front of roof to the loom disappearing into the motor area- purely as when I move the loom, the issue goes away (assume I am rejoining the break in the wire)

I've got Mark Plants INPA to run some tests to see what codes are thrown and if its an open circuit but I am fairly convinced

 

[Number5]

i'm still sure its a wire break in that loom from the front of roof to the loom disappearing into the motor area- purely as when I move the loom, the issue goes away (assume I am rejoining the break in the wire)

I've got Mark Plants INPA to run some tests to see what codes are thrown and if its an open circuit but I am fairly convinced

Yes sounds good. Changing the lifters is a nightmare and would be my last resort

 

[bigwinn]

As suspected- a very slight wire break which still allowed intermittent voltage flow

Cut
Spliced
Soldered
Heat shrunk
Protected

Sorted

 

[markplant]

Did it throw any codes

 

[bigwinn]

Nothing- it was in a ‘working ok’ mood today

I think the heat helped

I’ll get that inpa back to you

Think I’m in Ollerton weds and fri- you around?