reverse tilt mirror - is retrofit possible?

[Gebbly]

After searching the forums I have seen a fair few discussions about the auto folding mirrors on lock (lots to do with the E89) but less talk of tilt on reverse for the passenger mirror especially for E85/E86.

Has anyone ever attempted or even better succeeded in a retrofit of tilt on reverse to an E85/E86 (and particularly a Z4M)?
My last 2 beemers both had the feature and it really helps to protect the wheels when either parallel parking or reverse parking into tight spaces.

 

[enuff_zed]

[ref]Usel[/ref], now you've sussed the powerfold mirror retrofit loom, I think we have another little project for you. :wink:

 

[Usel]

Unfortunately the technology just isn't on the car for this to happen.

Electric memory seats work because the motors have hall sensors in side them for the memory buttons to work.

The doors mirrors don't have hall sensors. If you can find the motors from other makes/models of cars which have this feature and it's possible to fit them you'd then struggle to have the circuit board to control them. Audi, for example, use the same door mirror glass motor.

You could in theory have a timed circuit board that when you select reverse the mirror moves down for 1.5 seconds and then moves back up for 1.5 seconds 30 seconds later. Trouble is the motor may move faster one way than the other or on cold days it moves slower etc...... The glass could come out of sync of where the normal driving position is.

Feel like I've rambled now :rofl:

 

[Gebbly]

Thanks for that Usel, information is never rambling and I want to learn all I can about the new car.

Does that mean Usel, that you have managed to get powerfold mirrors working on an E85/E86 (M) ? I would be interested if so (although reverse tilt is a bigger wish list item)

A while back I read of someone on an MX5 forum (The MX5s in question did not have any reverse mirror tilt) who gradually got reverse tilt working by programming an arduino board and I think he fitted it inside the wing mirror unit. Some of the problems he encountered were as Usel describes regarding getting the mirror to return to the same position each time.

I was hoping since later models like the E89 had the feature it would be a bit simpler to retrofit

 

[Usel]

Not looked into the e89 but apparently the Audi B7 had reverse tilt as standard. This needs more research to confirm.

The mirror glass motor looks like this:

https://www.newmiltonautoparts.com/...oor-mirror-glass-adjustment-motor-18403-p.asp

Which is the same fit as the Z4. Just need to find out how the Audi model controls that feature.

Yes I have managed to retrofit the wiring for powerfold mirrors and auto dimming. It's a bit of nightmare and it took a full day to do it.

 

[Usel]

So someone has made a timed circuit board you can buy but it's expensive and will come with the downsides that I explained above.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/19595700...FqnigUZTOC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

We really need to find motors for the door mirrors which have hall sensors inside them or the whole unit with hall sensors inside already.

Using the program Auduino, that you mentioned above, this can control the hall sensors but you'd have to build a circuit board up.

If you don't have electric seats this could actually ( in my head) work by using the drivers seat control switch. The seat control switch can control 4 motors which would cover all the movements of both mirrors. You can then program memory 1 for driving position and memory 2 reverse position. You'd still need to make a simple circuit board to send a signal to memory 1 and 2 but that shouldn't be too difficult.

You can add hall sensors to a motor but we don't want to go down that route yet as seems a fiddle.

 

[Gebbly]

come with the downsides that I explained above

I would happily put up with having to tweak the mirror position every now and then if it meant I was able to get the reverse-tilt feature.

you'd have to build a circuit board up

I have a friend who is really good with electronics maybe I could get him to help if we went down that route.

If you don't have electric seats

I do. First car I've had with them.

Also I came across this picture of the window control unit. Is the piece I have marked with a red square where you installed your powerfold button?

 

[Usel]

You may need that friend

Also someone who can code, I did some over 20 years ago and have forgotten everything I learnt.

I will have a look into the world of RC as they have steering servos you can set the end points which may have some useful technology we can pinch.

 

[Gebbly]

You may need that friend

I have reached out to him. He has spent years in electronic control systems for buildings. Hes often playing with Raspberry Pis and arduinos and programming them and I'm a Software Engineer by trade so hopefully I can contribute too

I have a couple of RCs and had to limit the steering servo on one of them although in that instance it was setting limits in the transmitter rather than coding them into the servo.

 

[Usel]

You may need that friend

I have reached out to him. He has spent years in electronic control systems for buildings. Hes often playing with Raspberry Pis and arduinos and programming them and I'm a Software Engineer by trade so hopefully I can contribute too

I have a couple of RCs and had to limit the steering servo on one of them although in that instance it was setting limits in the transmitter rather than coding them into the servo.

That's great if he is on board to help

The transmitter sends the signal to the esc, the esc deciphers the radio signal to speed (how much voltage to send) and position that the servo needs to be in. The only way the esc will know what position the servo is in is with a hall sensor in the motor. Servos have 3 wires. Two of the wires will control the polarity so you steer left and right and the third wire will have to be sending the signal of the position of the motor.

Regardless of all the above the esc will only handle 6v but the servo may handle 12v?

 

[enuff_zed]

With all the discussion of having to press buttons to make it work, can't you simply use the adjuster switch to tilt it down when you need it?

 

[Usel]

With all the discussion of having to press buttons to make it work, can't you simply use the adjuster switch to tilt it down when you need it?

Well you wouldn't need to press any buttons, just select reverse, but I do get your point :rofl:

 

[Gebbly]

just select reverse

This was what I was aiming for. My current thinking is to route a cable from the reverse light to inside the dashboard and use it as a signal for when reverse is activated. This is also because I already need the signal to go to a new head unit that has a trigger wire for when the car is put in reverse to activate the reversing camera.

 

[enuff_zed]

just select reverse

This was what I was aiming for. My current thinking is to route a cable from the reverse light to inside the dashboard and use it as a signal for when reverse is activated. This is also because I already need the signal to go to a new head unit that has a trigger wire for when the car is put in reverse to activate the reversing camera.

I have to say, my daily has a reversing camera and it's a wide enough view to negate the need for a dipping mirror anyway. It allows me plenty of view of kerbs as I back up, and providing I don't start wildly swinging from side to side there's no real way I'm going to hit a kerb once I'm lined up at the back.

 

[Gebbly]

my daily has a reversing camera and it's a wide enough view to negate the need for a dipping mirror

Thats a good point. My daily driver has both a reversing camera and the reverse-tilt passenger mirror. Personally I find I use them both.

 

[Mr Tidy]

It's strange that E85/86s didn't have the reverse tilt mirror feature seeing as all 3 litres and Ms had the electric seats seeing as all 3 Series of that era that had either power-fold mirrors or electric seats had the reverse tilt. :?

My 2nd E46 and current E90 both had power-fold mirrors so they did have the reverse tilt feature - well until it stopped working on my current one.

 

[Usel]

It's strange that E85/86s didn't have the reverse tilt mirror feature seeing as all 3 litres and Ms had the electric seats seeing as all 3 Series of that era that had either power-fold mirrors or electric seats had the reverse tilt. :?

My 2nd E46 and current E90 both had power-fold mirrors so they did have the reverse tilt feature - well until it stopped working on my current one.

On the E46 did only the passenger mirror tilt? I assume you had to leave the mirror position switch on the passenger mirror for it to work?

 

[Usel]

I have opened up the mirror glass motor unit to see what is happening inside.

I was hoping that hall sensor wires may already be mounted inside the unit because there are 7 pins on the external connector:



Here's inside the unit and alas no hall sensor wires:



However there are pins ready for hall sensor wires to be added so motors could be retrofitted or there must be mirror glass motor units available with hall sensors already inside:

 

[Usel]

So the mirror glass motor units are just actually called on realoem actuators so that's what we'll use from now on

I searched for part numbers for E46 actuators and when seeing the photos of the actuators I actually have a pair from an Audi:



These didn't have the reverse tilt though but the motors inside are the same size as the ones in the Z4 so we can pinch the motors if needed from a reverse tilt actuator.

I then found E46 actuators with the wires needed that shows there are hall sensors inside:



These have 11 wires.

3 for the window switch on the door card.
3 for the GM5
4 for the hall sensors
1 for the k-bus

 

[Usel]

I don't think we'll be lucky enough to get second hand BMW actuators with the hall sensors inside to have a direct fit inside the Z4 mirrors. Maybe with Merc, Audi, VW it's possible however I found that the E46 M3 and E39 M5 have similar style mirrors as the Z4. They seem the only models which share the same actuator.

This is inside the M5 actuator and shows how hall sensor works, its uses an extra cog to measure the movement (potentiometer?):



Now the problem is they are non-existent second hand online and brand new from BMW they are £250+ each!!

Aliexpress makes them for £26ish but will they have the gubbins inside we actually need?

I just found this on AliExpress: ￡...er Assembly https://a.aliexpress.com/_Ex4toY1