Remapping

Well, I am all for remapping, when it's done for specific reasons. But none of the tuners are providing anything to help me make an informed decision.

Considering that, all I can do is judge on face value and what different tuners have achieved with this engine. ESS Tuning have me sold due to what they have done, and continue to do. They specialise in BMW engines, and tune all aspects of them. Developing new kits (like the 3.4 Alpina one recently)... surely that is the best advert going, yet people ignore it and go for a cheap "bought in" remap.


I actually have a side line business/hobby in car tuning, remapping a fair few cars... some of the utter crap coming in on cars that have already been remapped is worrying. It does the job, but for all the wrong reasons, and often built-in safety margins are just totally removed, or made ineffective by de-calibration of finely calibrated tables (ie, fundamentally doing the job of £1 resistor jobs on sensors, within the ECU)... cheap and nasty!


I wouldn't touch any tuner who hasn't developed that map on a car themselves, and has many many hours under the bonnet of those cars, understanding how they work, and how they drive, and maybe why BMW tuned them the way they did in the first place.
I'd say ESS have that experience and background.
Again, I'm only suggesting that people ignore the quoted power gains and the price, as neither mean anything in the world of bullshit tuning marketing. Look to those who work with the cars and really do heavily modify them, those who specialise in them, those who have been doing it well and making money for years and years, for those who know how to really get the best from them, honestly, genuinely and reliably!

Dave
 
If you really want piece of mind about knowing the map that is being put onto the car....
Buy a megasquirt and tune it yourself... you can even build it yourself if you really want from a pile of elecrical components! :fuelfire: :evil:

For people who don't know what i'm on about it's a piggyback ecu you can tune yourself. It controls engine parameters but the original ecu is left inplace to manage things like airbags windows etc.:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Megasquirt-v3-ecu-with-wiring_W0QQitemZ170314836414QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item170314836414&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1689|66%3A4|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

Yes USA RON rating are measured differently.

I understand your concern about wanting to know more details about what they have changed in the map. e.g. just increasing throttle responce will make the car seem faster.

i agree quantative independent research is, in an ideal world best. but people have given qualiative independent findings of removing flat spots etc. but you kind of dismiss this saying you can't feel any flat spots. I've no idea about flat spots on other engine sizes but my 3.0 m54 has a really noticable flat spot. even someone with little experience could feel it. maybe i don't have the latest ecu software update. Anyhows, i ramble. All the best with the mods.
 
TOM14S said:
If you really want piece of mind about knowing the map that is being put onto the car....
Buy a megasquirt and tune it yourself... you can even build it yourself if you really want from a pile of elecrical components! :fuelfire: :evil:

For people who don't know what i'm on about it's a piggyback ecu you can tune yourself. It controls engine parameters but the original ecu is left inplace to manage things like airbags windows etc.:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Megasquirt-v3-ecu-with-wiring_W0QQitemZ170314836414QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item170314836414&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1689|66%3A4|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

Yes USA RON rating are measured differently.

I understand your concern about wanting to know more details about what they have changed in the map. e.g. just increasing throttle responce will make the car seem faster.

i agree quantative independent research is, in an ideal world best. but people have given qualiative independent findings of removing flat spots etc. but you kind of dismiss this saying you can't feel any flat spots. I've no idea about flat spots on other engine sizes but my 3.0 m54 has a really noticable flat spot. even someone with little experience could feel it. maybe i don't have the latest ecu software update. Anyhows, i ramble. All the most with the mods.

I can only think of 2 reasons why anyone would recommend this product:

1) You yourself are the seller
2) You're an idiot
 
huh?
I'm not recommending it. lol.
I've only know of two people who've used these and I sure as hell wouldn't put one anywhere near any car with any value.
No please don't take that as an endorsment for them. just information
 
Hehe, megasquirt is going a bit far, and probably not ideal for this engine (M54B30) with it's vanos, pulse tuning intake, pre-cat heating on startup and all that kinda jazz.

I simply question the ability of tuners to actually develop for this engine when they don't have BMW's expertise from actually having made the engine originally.
Ie, if these flat spots are so very noticeable, and driveability can be improved so easily, why on earth didn't some of the best engine makers in the world spot these issues and resolve them.


I'm sure there are gains there, but what compromises are they introducing, why are the tuners not telling us about them, or are we to believe that they have made a mapping file better in every way than BMW, without adding compromise, by tweaking a few of the maps (I'm sure 99% time actually not even fully re-populating any of the lookup tables)

Needless to say, before I spent my money I would want to trial a fair few products first, before settling on the first one that came along assuming that what has been done is the best it could be.
If BMW are apparently getting it wrong, then how come any given randomly selected tuner is apparently getting it 100% right? :)

Dave
 
I'll not step into the quality of the mapping debate, but I do recall that engines are measured for emissions at some very specific rpm's and a trick of manufacturers is to tweak the performance at exactly that range. This results in flatspots that can easily be removed outside of the constraints of manufacturers.

Engines are also built to operate on a huge range of fuels, temperature ranges, etc. I'm sure by removing some of that flexibility remappers compromise for other benefits.
 
I won't go too much further, but I think people should just look at who is doing what with these engines, and then have a think who can do the work you want.

I could probably get hold of a 'decent' remap for these cars tomorrow, and buy a decent tool to write them with, and be remapping the cars left right and centre for £200 and making a profit after about ten cars. It doesn't mean I am a tuning expert. A remapping expert maybe, but tuning? Really?

Who would you rather use, me, or someone like ESS Tuning who has had these engines apart, added superchargers, developed exhausts, had 100,000's of miles of hard track use from their kits!?


Go for a remap by all means, but go to a *tuner with a reputation with these engines, not just a *remapper :)
 
cj10jeeper said:
I'll not step into the quality of the mapping debate, but I do recall that engines are measured for emissions at some very specific rpm's and a trick of manufacturers is to tweak the performance at exactly that range. This results in flatspots that can easily be removed outside of the constraints of manufacturers.

Engines are also built to operate on a huge range of fuels, temperature ranges, etc. I'm sure by removing some of that flexibility remappers compromise for other benefits.


Totaly agree and tried to make the point ages ago, BMW make the best maps possible within the confines of current legislation, if I was interested in a remap it would be to remove these points and not because of major engine work.
 
http://www.simpsonmotorsport.co.uk/default.asp?id=110&pid=69&name=Engine%20Building/Mapping&page=Services

Not sure how much they are.

They may well be expensive, but considering what both Simpson and ESS do with these engines, they would be my first port of call anyway :)
 
Supercharging was the first option I looked at after only 2 months of ownership whilst thinking of what I could do to make it go faster, I think it costs like £4K + you'd probably need better cooling, exhaust system then brakes of course lool :rofl:

At this point Im thinking if I want a another faster Z4 I go for a Z4M or when I want somthing new go for a Lotus Exige S - drove one on sunday at silverstone and then got driven round in it by a pro :lol: twas brilliant, actually I'd say it outshadows driving what you go on the experience for, the Ferrari 360.
 
Hi I'm picking my Z4 3.0i up on Saturday so i'm just going through various threads check out this place http://www.p-torque.co.uk/ they really know what they are doing he has done plenty on the baby bmw one series site http://www.babybmw.net/forum/index.php including my 120d which is fantastic petrol versions also done Will the owner drives a z4m himself,worth having a look. :thumbsup:
 
Loads of feedback from owners of turbo diesels, not many, if any, from petrol NA engined owners...

I've had 100% positive feedback from all the cars I have remapped, but they have all been turbo diesels too, doesn't mean I know the first thing at all about remapping a BMW NA straight 6 (yet) ;)

Honestly, not having a go at anyone, but Simpson Motorsport/ESS Tuning seem to be the only ones who have actually shown and prove their abilities with this engine/car... THAT is worth more than positive feedback from people who know nothing about tuning on unrelated cars (with all due respect of course ;) )

Dave
 
Anyone had any experience with a company called Evolution Chips?

Extreme Motorsports are an EVO/SUBARU specialist in Whitburn who did all the tuning work on my last car, an EVO VIII MR FQ300. The guy there recommended an Evolution Chip for my Z4 Coupe when I told him I was going to buy one. Extreme are an authorised dealer for Evolution Chips so obviously he was looking for some business but he's a pretty straight-up guy who knows what he's talking about car-wise.

Here's a link to their website: http://www.evolutionchips.co.uk/chipsearch.asp

You can use the dropdowns to filter down to the Z4 but here's the info it gives:

BMW Z4 - E85/E86
Model Year: 2006 >
Engine Type: Petrol-NonTurbo
Engine Size: 3.0L 24v 260 BHP Model
BHP Increase: 14
Torque Increase (NM): 22
Price*: £ 269 RRP
* UK prices inc. fitting & VAT. Regional variations may apply.
Errors & Omissions Excluded.
 
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