Remapping
- Thread starter Ricey
- Start date
Had a rolling road remap on my Z3 2.8, took it to ChippedUK in Bromsgrove. When they set it up it showed the engine was only kicking out 176bhp instead of the standard 193bhp it should have been. When they completed the remap the results showed an increase of 12bhp, or 6% power gain.
Whether this this was true or not, it certainly felt quicker and much smoother.
Whether this this was true or not, it certainly felt quicker and much smoother.
Ricey said:
Nothing in terms of parts and mapping. IMHO BMW do a good job already and all you'll do is sink a fortune into squeezing a few hp out of it that you'll barely feel. Make sure it's well serviced, clean filters, correct grade of oil and running on 98 fuel.
Remapping gains on a good normally aspirated engine are hard to find. And any engine worth making these days is 'good' because manufacturers can't throw away power and torque because efficiency is king (along with emissions, but they do well with both)
Honestly, don't go near anyone without ALOT of positive feedback, and I mean ALOT, and even then, be sure they have worked on similar cars before and have a name in that specific one!
For our engines, ESS are probably the people I'd trust the most, and would be the only people I'd even entertain looking at
Dave
Honestly, don't go near anyone without ALOT of positive feedback, and I mean ALOT, and even then, be sure they have worked on similar cars before and have a name in that specific one!
For our engines, ESS are probably the people I'd trust the most, and would be the only people I'd even entertain looking at
Dave
Yes - check the handbook to see the full range acceptable and recommended as I'm not certain on the 2.2.
Run the tank low (but not so low it draws up silt) then just switch.
It will take a while to readjust and get through the system, but you'll get better performance and the increased cost will be compenasated for with increased MPG, unless oyu use that new found performance all the time.
Run the tank low (but not so low it draws up silt) then just switch.
It will take a while to readjust and get through the system, but you'll get better performance and the increased cost will be compenasated for with increased MPG, unless oyu use that new found performance all the time.
Speaking of performance I had a little bit of a race yesterday with an evo 7 or an 8, I knew it was quicker to 60 than me but I was surprised as it wasnt by a whole lot.
and mpg I get 28 but I drive like a lunatic
and mpg I get 28 but I drive like a lunatic
Just to note to the OP, if you remap it, surely the insurance changes more for the smaller increase in power than it does for going up an engine size but standard, + you get bigger brakes and so on to make it handle the power better.
Then you look at resale value, a remapped car will be harder to sell as it's modified, so you are losing money there.
Add up the pence per mile and then work out if the 2.5 or 3.0 are actually that much more before you spend money on a remap.
Dave
Then you look at resale value, a remapped car will be harder to sell as it's modified, so you are losing money there.
Add up the pence per mile and then work out if the 2.5 or 3.0 are actually that much more before you spend money on a remap.
Dave
Interesting comments being made here, for what it's worth I'll give my tuppence. 8)
Generally I think I've heard more positive comments on this subject from those that have actually had it done.
oke:
Remapping works because car manufacturers have to build an engine which is suitable for a large number of markets and fuel qualities over the entire engine life. Therefore they leave some tolerance in the standard map to account for this. Remapping just pushes these boundaries a bit more to increase efficiency/power etc; so as long as you use the car in the UK with decent fuel and maintenance you are OK. It's true that remapping is far more effective on engines with forced induction and the most you are realistically going to get by remapping a normally aspirated engine is around a 10% improvement in power and torque. So you are not going to change a 2.2 into a 3.0 by remapping it though, just enhance the character of the existing engine. Re. the resale value most remappers will convert the car back to the original map foc. I've found that the remapped engine running 95 RON was better than the original one with 98 RON so I've saved myself cash there.
Generally I think I've heard more positive comments on this subject from those that have actually had it done.
oke: Remapping works because car manufacturers have to build an engine which is suitable for a large number of markets and fuel qualities over the entire engine life. Therefore they leave some tolerance in the standard map to account for this. Remapping just pushes these boundaries a bit more to increase efficiency/power etc; so as long as you use the car in the UK with decent fuel and maintenance you are OK. It's true that remapping is far more effective on engines with forced induction and the most you are realistically going to get by remapping a normally aspirated engine is around a 10% improvement in power and torque. So you are not going to change a 2.2 into a 3.0 by remapping it though, just enhance the character of the existing engine. Re. the resale value most remappers will convert the car back to the original map foc. I've found that the remapped engine running 95 RON was better than the original one with 98 RON so I've saved myself cash there.
Whether you get what you expect or not is down to 1) what you expect to get, 2) what method you use to get the extra power, 3) who you use.
1) Don't expect your 200bhp car to magically give you 220bhp just because the tuner says you'll see 'upto 20bhp'. Firstly you car will probably not be making the 200bhp anyway and the gains you see might only get you back to 'standard'.
2) A 'chip' is not the same as a 'remap' - and then there's the companies who claim to do proper remaps with their own expertise when in fact they simply by in a some maps and burn them themselves. Yes, they might have more than one map for each engine to suit what the owner wants (efficiency, mid-range grunt, top-end horsepower, etc), but that is not the same as spending a few hours with a laptop doing multiple dyno runs to see where the car can gain power without messing up reliability or drivability.
3) Some reputable companies do all their own development from scratch and will start with a basic map for your car and take it from there. Some other 'reputable' companies will basically charge you lots of money for a generic chip that they've bought the map from from another company.
Ultimately if you're going to chip/remap the car then you've got to realise that you need to be sure the company you're using has a cast iron warranty in place in case your BMW/aftermarket warranty refuses to pay out. This is not so much a problem in normally aspirated cars due to the lower levels of gains you're going to get, but some of the turbo (diesel & petrol) remaps are taking the torque levels outside the safety margins of what the gearboxes are rated for, and then when something goes wrong and you need a new gearbox, some will just say "sorry but our warranty only covers the engine".
I'm not saying don't do it as I've looked at remaps for all the cars I've had in the past, but I've always made sure the car is running 100% before spending on mods. If the car is down on power as standard (as a lot of dyno's seem to say with any car) then find out why, as a remap will only exacerbate any underlying problems. Once it's running fine, and you want even more power, then go ahead and add a carbon intake, decat, straight-through exhaust & remap to get the most out of them.
1) Don't expect your 200bhp car to magically give you 220bhp just because the tuner says you'll see 'upto 20bhp'. Firstly you car will probably not be making the 200bhp anyway and the gains you see might only get you back to 'standard'.
2) A 'chip' is not the same as a 'remap' - and then there's the companies who claim to do proper remaps with their own expertise when in fact they simply by in a some maps and burn them themselves. Yes, they might have more than one map for each engine to suit what the owner wants (efficiency, mid-range grunt, top-end horsepower, etc), but that is not the same as spending a few hours with a laptop doing multiple dyno runs to see where the car can gain power without messing up reliability or drivability.
3) Some reputable companies do all their own development from scratch and will start with a basic map for your car and take it from there. Some other 'reputable' companies will basically charge you lots of money for a generic chip that they've bought the map from from another company.
Ultimately if you're going to chip/remap the car then you've got to realise that you need to be sure the company you're using has a cast iron warranty in place in case your BMW/aftermarket warranty refuses to pay out. This is not so much a problem in normally aspirated cars due to the lower levels of gains you're going to get, but some of the turbo (diesel & petrol) remaps are taking the torque levels outside the safety margins of what the gearboxes are rated for, and then when something goes wrong and you need a new gearbox, some will just say "sorry but our warranty only covers the engine".
I'm not saying don't do it as I've looked at remaps for all the cars I've had in the past, but I've always made sure the car is running 100% before spending on mods. If the car is down on power as standard (as a lot of dyno's seem to say with any car) then find out why, as a remap will only exacerbate any underlying problems. Once it's running fine, and you want even more power, then go ahead and add a carbon intake, decat, straight-through exhaust & remap to get the most out of them.
Any empirical testing in this regard, or just perception based?
With REAL changes to an NA engine, I can see gains to be had by optimising to the new setup, but on a standard engine the original engineers will have spent months with lots of test equipment to get things pretty much perfect. Modern cars adapt to fuel quality variables too, pretty nicely.
I don't know many remappers that revert free of charge.
Anyway, as said, there are gains to be had but there ARE new compromises introduced. ESS for instance, who take the BMW engines to nearly double their power, and offer long warranties etc, offer a meagre 5bhp on the 3.0 engine, so 231bhp > 236bhp, a whopping 2%, far from 10%, and it comes at a price too!
I just put it down to trust. Do you trust the people who developed the whole car, and engine, and offered a 3 year warranty and thousands of miles warranty, who have cars and engines out there doing 200k miles and still going strong, or the tuner down the road who apparently 'improves' it with more power and torque and smoothness, and mpg, all for a few hundred quid?
These guys should be working for BMW earning £££ if they can get power, torque and mpg for £250 worth of their time!
Sorry, I'm not a believer. FI cars, yes, NA cars otherwise standard, no.
Dave
With REAL changes to an NA engine, I can see gains to be had by optimising to the new setup, but on a standard engine the original engineers will have spent months with lots of test equipment to get things pretty much perfect. Modern cars adapt to fuel quality variables too, pretty nicely.
I don't know many remappers that revert free of charge.
Anyway, as said, there are gains to be had but there ARE new compromises introduced. ESS for instance, who take the BMW engines to nearly double their power, and offer long warranties etc, offer a meagre 5bhp on the 3.0 engine, so 231bhp > 236bhp, a whopping 2%, far from 10%, and it comes at a price too!
I just put it down to trust. Do you trust the people who developed the whole car, and engine, and offered a 3 year warranty and thousands of miles warranty, who have cars and engines out there doing 200k miles and still going strong, or the tuner down the road who apparently 'improves' it with more power and torque and smoothness, and mpg, all for a few hundred quid?
These guys should be working for BMW earning £££ if they can get power, torque and mpg for £250 worth of their time!
Sorry, I'm not a believer. FI cars, yes, NA cars otherwise standard, no.
Dave
