A
Statistics eh?
On the face of your bald figures mine actually looks pretty poor in torque, which is the exact opposite of what I'm feeling through my backside.
But then, when you look closer you can see that I am getting almost all of that increase from as low as 1900rpm, which pre-remap was only about 240Nm. Therefore, for my driving style, the increase of nigh on 50% torque at such low rpm, then maintaining that right through to 5000rpm, is a massive improvement.
I was taken aback when I first saw your chart, because I thought I must be experiencing some kind of placebo effect. The real world truth though is that my car now feels torque-ily responsive as soon as I look at the pedal, giving a driving sensation not unlike that from my 335D (ok, not quite that grunt, but hopefully you'll know what I mean).
Still happy with it, that's the main thing
On the face of your bald figures mine actually looks pretty poor in torque, which is the exact opposite of what I'm feeling through my backside.
But then, when you look closer you can see that I am getting almost all of that increase from as low as 1900rpm, which pre-remap was only about 240Nm. Therefore, for my driving style, the increase of nigh on 50% torque at such low rpm, then maintaining that right through to 5000rpm, is a massive improvement.
I was taken aback when I first saw your chart, because I thought I must be experiencing some kind of placebo effect. The real world truth though is that my car now feels torque-ily responsive as soon as I look at the pedal, giving a driving sensation not unlike that from my 335D (ok, not quite that grunt, but hopefully you'll know what I mean).
Still happy with it, that's the main thing
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Anonymous
Guest
enuff_zed said:Statistics eh?
On the face of your bald figures mine actually looks pretty poor in torque, which is the exact opposite of what I'm feeling through my backside.
But then, when you look closer you can see that I am getting almost all of that increase from as low as 1900rpm, which pre-remap was only about 240Nm. Therefore, for my driving style, the increase of nigh on 50% torque at such low rpm, then maintaining that right through to 5000rpm, is a massive improvement.
I was taken aback when I first saw your chart, because I thought I must be experiencing some kind of placebo effect. The real world truth though is that my car now feels torque-ily responsive as soon as I look at the pedal, giving a driving sensation not unlike that from my 335D (ok, not quite that grunt, but hopefully you'll know what I mean).
Still happy with it, that's the main thing
I think the simple numbers don’t reflect the real world experience but it’s a way of capturing some headline data..
I think it would be difficult to actually ascertain the differences even if you drive them all back to back..add the complexity of auto vs manual etc
It would be nice just to build up more data to try and fathom out what happens..of course with 4 different tuners and 4 different sets of numbers it does support the idea that these guys who tweak them on the dyno are not ending up with the same maps even if they may have started from a common point..
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Anonymous
Guest
enuff_zed said:
Make that 2...in my case like I assume all tuners they must have a reference map but my chappy spent 2-3 hours twiddling with various parameters to get the result..
the only two suppliers mentioned here are Celtic and Quantum... both of which have a big network of dealers to install their maps 
enuff_zed said:
They might tell you that that they built a custom tune for the car but the whole remapping market is a bit cloudy in that regard. It's mostly sales BS. If you paid £300-£500~, were on the rollers for under 2 hours and left with a printed graph in hand and absolutely no idea what they changed then the chances are you just had the same service that the vast majority of customers get.
For a bespoke map they would at least have to work with you over a few drive cycles and do part throttle work rather than just a couple of full throttle dyno runs.
Typically the only people that bother with a custom map are people that track their cars or do some semi competitive autocross style driving. You would work with a tuner over a much longer period sending them operating data of the vehicle and they would gradually tweak the car.
That kind of work gets expensive so you either pay a real tuner to work with you or you learn it yourself.
A lot of these places may have been set up by people that started by tuning their own vehicles and moved on to doing the £300 garage remap game to pay the bills. All of the tuners on the N54 platform that offer fully custom maps all started with their own cars.
For me it's always better to have some sort of dyno to tweak these things, providing of course the tuner's got the experience to actually tweak it. A print out to back things up is also helpful as is having somewhere to take the car back to if things don't work out.
These factors coupled to Celtic's radio silence to Pbondar over the issues he had would be more than enough to tell me to steer well clear of them at least.
These factors coupled to Celtic's radio silence to Pbondar over the issues he had would be more than enough to tell me to steer well clear of them at least.
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Anonymous
Guest
A typo on Smartbear torque corrected
Pete,
There's probably a few variables that it might be worth adding. For example do you know what fuel everyone was running? Mine was on Tesco Momentum 99. I've always been led to believe that it takes a good few tankfuls worth of fuel for the ecu to full adapt normally, but I'm not sure if this is true or even valid when it comes to a remap. I dont know it they reset the parameters as part of the remap etc.
Beyond that there's the freshness of coils and plugs, I swapped then out before the remap and I know you did too, but what about anyone else? I for one noticed an improvement in smoothness and the engine seemed a bit perkier too (on my 70k car) pre the remap when I did, so I definitely think they made some difference. My plugs were only a few years old put the coils were the originals so I suspect most if not all the difference was down to them.
Obviously these factors alone could make a sizable difference on the same vehicle if it was dyno before and after.
It's also worth mentioning that in my case PTorque pointed out that the car will probably make a little bit more power/torque on the road. It was a warm day when it was remapped and despite their big fans they could see the ignition timing was being retarded ever so slightly to compensate for the intake temp. Will did say it won't be an issue on the road as the airflow is far superior to anything the fans can deliver. But it does make you wonder if the same applied when others were remapped.
There's probably a few variables that it might be worth adding. For example do you know what fuel everyone was running? Mine was on Tesco Momentum 99. I've always been led to believe that it takes a good few tankfuls worth of fuel for the ecu to full adapt normally, but I'm not sure if this is true or even valid when it comes to a remap. I dont know it they reset the parameters as part of the remap etc.
Beyond that there's the freshness of coils and plugs, I swapped then out before the remap and I know you did too, but what about anyone else? I for one noticed an improvement in smoothness and the engine seemed a bit perkier too (on my 70k car) pre the remap when I did, so I definitely think they made some difference. My plugs were only a few years old put the coils were the originals so I suspect most if not all the difference was down to them.
Obviously these factors alone could make a sizable difference on the same vehicle if it was dyno before and after.
It's also worth mentioning that in my case PTorque pointed out that the car will probably make a little bit more power/torque on the road. It was a warm day when it was remapped and despite their big fans they could see the ignition timing was being retarded ever so slightly to compensate for the intake temp. Will did say it won't be an issue on the road as the airflow is far superior to anything the fans can deliver. But it does make you wonder if the same applied when others were remapped.
Yup, it appears the only consistent thing is the number of variables!
Mine was topped to the brim with V-Power, having been running on that since the Spring.
However, the plugs I ordered didn't arrive in time, so it ran on the old ones, which I believe are the originals, with 24k on them.
New air filter fitted.
I expect even if you took two identical cars, with identical mileage, fitted exactly the same new plugs, air filters, oil change, same wheels, same tyres, same pressures etc, you would still get differences in the graphs.
Mine was topped to the brim with V-Power, having been running on that since the Spring.
However, the plugs I ordered didn't arrive in time, so it ran on the old ones, which I believe are the originals, with 24k on them.
New air filter fitted.
I expect even if you took two identical cars, with identical mileage, fitted exactly the same new plugs, air filters, oil change, same wheels, same tyres, same pressures etc, you would still get differences in the graphs.
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Anonymous
Guest
All noted chaps..mine is back in to The Peformance Centre tomorrow to have the inlet valve ports cleaned and a post clean dyno run..by then plenty of new 99 RON fuel will have washed though..so we will see what gives..it will be a cooler / damp day tomorrow so expecting at least another 25BHP.. :rofl:
