Professional Speakers - 2013 LCI model

S

Sketchley

Member
I think this needs a new thread.

When my car got delivered in June the amplifier was faulty resulting in popping and crackling on the rear speakers. Due to ordering issues new amp took 6 weeks to arrive. During that time BMW had disconnected the back speakers, but I noticed distortion from certain tracks on front speakers. I put this down the faulty amp and hoped it would be solved by new one. It wasn't front speak still distorted.

The dealer has had the car all this week and has replaced two front speakers. This didn’t work so they then focus on sound deeding in the front door. They still could not get rid of distortion / resonance. So escalated to BMW technical.

BMW technical are saying the problem is the speakers reaching their limit. Only problem with this is that it seems only to affect certain tracks or more precisely certain frequencies. For example Love song on Adele's 21 album distorts in the mid range on her vocals (as do other tracks on the album) even at a modest volume, similarly Sunset by Kate Bush distorts on the vocal. However put on Van Halen Jump or some techno and you can turn the system up a lot more from the point Adele distorts and it both noticeably louder and no distortion. This is not correct, I would expect the distortion to be more even if the system was reaching it’s limit. What his does show are the speakers are not “matched”.

As BMW technical is saying nothing wrong with speakers (they maybe right which means this is a design fault) the dealer is saying there is nothing further they can do and have referred it back to BMW UK customer services. So I’m stuck!

For my part the options now seem to be

1. BMW fixes the problem themselves with an upgraded speaker.
2. BMW engages a third party car audio company to fix it at their cost and ensuring all warranties stay in place.
3. I ask BMW to refund money for Pro Audio and Pro Media as I would not have brought one without the other and I go to Third Party Company myself, although warranty becomes an issue here so I don’t like this option.
4. I return the car and give up.

Anyone had any experience of the options above, particularly aftermarket audio and warranties or rejecting a car for full refund.

Have to say I’m getting the feeling my days with BMW are numbered I have lost faith in the brand now. Hopefully I can get out of this without losing too much or any money.
 
I'd maybe take it to another bmw dealer for a second opinion, it's under warranty so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.nif they can't find the fault either then reject it. Put this in writing to the current dealer though.

I've not had any problems with mine, what are bmw customer services actually saying?

Edit - I'd also ask to hear the system of another z4 and play the same tracks in the same volume and eq settings to see if this is replicated on other cars, if so then it's going to be difficult to prove its your car with a fault.

Is this with a iPod or is it the same with cds and radio?
 
Transmat said:
I'd maybe take it to another bmw dealer for a second opinion, it's under warranty so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.nif they can't find the fault either then reject it. Put this in writing to the current dealer though.

I've not had any problems with mine, what are bmw customer services actually saying?

Edit - I'd also ask to hear the system of another z4 and play the same tracks in the same volume and eq settings to see if this is replicated on other cars, if so then it's going to be difficult to prove its your car with a fault.

Is this with a iPod or is it the same with cds and radio?
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Good idea about another dealer. Trouble is all the ones near me are same group, Coopers / Inchcape. To be fair on the delaer and the tech there, they think it's a problem but there is nothing they can do if BMW technical are saying the speaker is simply reaching it's limit.

Not heared back from BMW Customer Services, either directly or via the dealer yet on the distorition issue other than earlier in the week when they promised to monitor the situation. I suspect that'll be later today or Monday. However they have promised a goodwill guestured once all problems are solved.

CDs and CD rips via the iDrive both do it. It's not the source material the CD is fine on home hifi.

Hearing another Z4 is not a bad idea, the 2012 model I heard before I purchased didn't do it but it may of been different tracks, I cannot be sure I what I played but I would have noticed if it did so we can only assume it didn't, I went through lots of different material.... If anyone here has a 2013 (or 2012) with pro speakers, can you get a copy of love song by Adele or Sunset by Kate Bush, turn fader to front and balance to left (or right) and turn it up and let me know the result?
 
I have similar issues with my 2010 with the Business Loudspeaker upgrade... It's been looked at twice but as it only happens at relatively higher volumes I've also been told it's just the speakers reaching their limits. However, like you, some tracks I can max out & the speakers are clear and strong, other tracks, noticeably higher vocals do cause a distortion of the front speakers, the tweeters & central dash one. Very annoying, as other than that it's a great upgrade!
 
OwenT said:
I have similar issues with my 2010 with the Business Loudspeaker upgrade... It's been looked at twice but as it only happens at relatively higher volumes I've also been told it's just the speakers reaching their limits. However, like you, some tracks I can max out & the speakers are clear and strong, other tracks, noticeably higher vocals do cause a distortion of the front speakers, the tweeters & central dash one. Very annoying, as other than that it's a great upgrade!
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This is what I was worried about, sounds like an out and out design flaw with the Mid Range speakers. I think tweaters are fine.

Guess i have to wait from BMW customer services, I'm going to push them to refund the Pro Media and Pro Speakers which is nearly £3k. if they agree then I'll go and find me a speaker upgrade package from an third party.....

Having just reread the discription on the pro speakers it certainly isn't as discribed!

"Loudspeaker system, BMW Professional, provides truly outstanding sound quality creating a luxurious soundscape within the cabin environment. The central bass concept using subwoofers gives authentic bass reproduction. 14 loudspeakers with 650 Ws"
 
Close to an ending on this.

The dealership and BMW have reached the concusion that there is nothing spefically wrong, the speakers are not damaged, they are the correct part and other Z4s with same system have same problem. That doesn't mean its right and the dealership to their up most credit agree with me and are not hiding behind BMW which make me feel better.

There is a small problem that BMW do not have any uprated speakers that fit the car. Again the dealership to thier credit have gone elsewhere to source some speakers and told me yesterday they have source some Infinity mid range 3.5" 200w speakers to replace the 100w bmw ones. These should arrive and be fitted next week.

Hopefully this will solve the problem. I'm also slightly optimistic it will improve the sound qulaity as well as the system lack a certain warmth which is almost certain due to issues in the mid range.

My only concern about this is the new speakers not being "matched" to the existing, different impedence and / or sensativity etc and I end up wanting to replace the whole front end, or even the whole system but one step at a time.....

I will find out exact make and model in case anyone else is interest in an upgrade and report back on what difference it makes.
 
I think this sounds like a head unit fault, as opposed to the speakers.

Either that or your car just doesn't like Adele and Kate! :D
 
It's not the speakers! Either head unit, amplifier, or possibily crossovers assuming that is there are passive crossovers in the door, front somewhere....
 
It's the amplifier. The signal (5.1 optical) is clean from head unit. Something inside the amp doesn't like certain frequencies. By all accounts it appears to be a design fault. :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

Next step is a conversation with dealer and BMW about compensation, the delaer is kicking this off with BMW. I have been quite clear I view the pro media and pro speakers as one system and if I had known then what I know now I would have ordered neither and just gone aftermarket from day one. It will be interesting to see what happens next.

Next trick would be tying to keep the BMW warranty intact if I do any modifications......
 
Following some testing and getting a third party opinion. It seems like the problem is software related in the DSP in the amp. However BMW still seem to think it simply being over driven. The software is fully up to date on car and there are no plans that BMW can tell me to fix the problem.

Solution is to replace the amplifier with something else. This doesn't appear easy. The only company offering a solution I can find is Mobridge who make these pre amps that plug directly into the MOST network http://www.mobridge.us/products/most-digital-pre-amp and http://www.mobridge.us/products/most-advanced-digital-analog-pre-amp which would then need external amps. Or they are bringing out this amplifier soon http://www.mobridge-ipod.co.uk/media/resources/mObridge-Amplifier-Flyer.pdf which is tempting as it gives 4 x 150w + 2 x 250w meaning either front / rear + sub, on each side or scrapping the rears and running 1 x 150w for woofer in kick well and 1 x 150w for mid / top in door and 1 x 250w for sub on each side. Not sure a cabin so small need the rears.... in fact I know it doesn't. Of course I need to upgrade the speakers in the door at least and maybe the footwells and maybe the subs......

With any of the mobidge solutions I'd lose both center channels, the surround function and 5.1 on DVDs all of which I can live without, but everything else, including eq, balance and fade, volume, bluetooth, USB, Aux, parking sensors etc would work. Plus all the Mobirdge stuff appears highly configurable including multiband eqs on top of the BMW 7 channel etc.

Watch this space.......
 
Im a sound engineer and although I know very little of modern car audio you mentioned Van halen and techno.
This music will be much more compressed than the other tracks you mention which inturn leads me to believe there is clipping of the signal going on somewhere.

So the system does not like dynamic tracks. Fire a test cd on there and have a listen.

Clipping will lead to distortion and eventually damage speakers even at low levels. It's an amp or head unit or some lnterconnect issue but id put money on a capacitor issue or digital clipping somewhere. Doubt its the speakers but voice coils will get damaged if this continues.
 
Im a sound engineer and although I know very little of modern car audio you mentioned Van halen and techno.
This music will be much more compressed than the other tracks you mention which inturn leads me to believe there is clipping of the signal going on somewhere.

So the system does not like dynamic tracks. Fire a test cd on there and have a listen.

Clipping will lead to distortion and eventually damage speakers even at low levels. It's an amp or head unit or some lnterconnect issue but id put money on a capacitor issue or digital clipping somewhere. Doubt its the speakers but voice coils will get damaged if this continues.
 
I hear what your saying but, it's not a compression / dynamic track problem. The reason for this is the way the MOST network works, the headunit send the audio as 5.1 optical along with volume, balance, fader, eq data to the amplifier / DSP unit. The amplifier / DSP unit then does all the work. So the optical audio signal does not change dependent on volume as volume data is sent seperatley. If it was a problem with the audio / track the distortion would be heared a low volume and stay the same just get louder with volume, that is not what is happenning, a low volume the signal is clean and only as volume increases does the problem become apparant. As the audio signal is digital / optical then the maximum signal is 0db regardless there is no difference in maximum volume between a dynamic track and compressed one, the loudest bit will be (close to) 0db, the difference is the quiet bits, on a dynamic track the quite bit on much quieter than on the compressed one with the net effect the compressed track sound louder (and often distorted at source, google loudness wars).

The only possible thing might be happenning along these lines is the amp/dsp attempting to volume normalise tracks so that tracks volume being artifcially increased as overall the track is quiet and then the system not being able to handle the later peaks in the tracks. I've discounted this by finding tracks (techno) that start loud and then have quiet breakdowns where the synth line or vocal hits the frequencies and these distort.

The other reason why I think this is software fault as did the independant car audio company is that it only happens on certain frequencies. Tracks without these frequencies are fine. Unless the tracks that are fine have no mid range (extremely unlikely) it cannot be a passive crossover, amplifier running out of power, or a speaker issue is that the distortion would be present whenever the mid channel is loaded that simply isn't the case.

The logical consulsion is that these frequencies are on the boarder between either top and mid, or mid and bass (not sure which) and the active crossover software in the DSP has a bug and is getting it wrong.

As someone posted above the same problem occurs on a business speaker system and I've found other people with issues on different BMW cars with different systems. As the AMP/DSP hardware is different it has to be a software fault.....
 
Sketchley said:
The logical consulsion is that these frequencies are on the boarder between either top and mid, or mid and bass (not sure which) and the active crossover software in the DSP has a bug and is getting it wrong.

.....
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Ok you have hit on something here with me and it does come back to the clipping argument. Again this is my world of audio which is somewhat different to car Audio DSP.

if the software has got the filtering wrong or poor filtering algos this can allow frequencies to align and create excessive outputs on the peak of the wave resulting in clipping. The tracks you play will highlight this problem more than others and sooner as you turn up.
 
All in all it sounds like BMW cheaped out. Shock horror. Its a real shame they chose to skip a good audio system in these cars. The 1/3/5/6 series etc get HK and B&O sound systems to ensure good quality (at a price), why not at least have the HK system in the Z? Maybe the next one :(

I'd ask BMW to refund you the price of the system and then go third party.
 
Maniac said:
All in all it sounds like BMW cheaped out. Shock horror. Its a real shame they chose to skip a good audio system in these cars. The 1/3/5/6 series etc get HK and B&O sound systems to ensure good quality (at a price), why not at least have the HK system in the Z? Maybe the next one :(

I'd ask BMW to refund you the price of the system and then go third party.
Click to expand...

Yup id say the amp isn't up to the job and/or the system is aggressive in attenuation to stop the cheap bits failing.

I remember my first E89 well :thumbsdown:
 
Maniac said:
All in all it sounds like BMW cheaped out. Shock horror. Its a real shame they chose to skip a good audio system in these cars. The 1/3/5/6 series etc get HK and B&O sound systems to ensure good quality (at a price), why not at least have the HK system in the Z? Maybe the next one :(

I'd ask BMW to refund you the price of the system and then go third party.
Click to expand...

Few steps ahead of you there... bmw are already offering a refund but there is a difference between what the pro speakers cost and what a third part system will cost, there is a bigger difference still to what they could sell the car for if I returned it and what I paid for it. Some more negotiations are required.....
 
Progress made, happy with response from BMW although it did take a long time, third party system being specified, should be ready Jan / Feb time.
 
I'd be interested to know what system you're getting, amp, speakers etc if different from any mentioned above as I may experiment with a new setup next year...
 
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