Predicted energy price rises

[sars]

So would all the millions of existing boilers have the ability to run on hydrogen without modification? I'm pretty certain hydrogen has to be stored under great pressure

Yes, there would have to be a way to run existing boilers on either town gas or Hydrogen. When (or if) the changeover to H2 happens it will be all or nothing as they will use the same infrastructure. To alter millions of boilers to run on either will cost billions. I don't think the UK Government will offer grants for this. If we are talking the next few years, they had better get their finger out in letting the public know.
I know that Bosch, who make Worcester boilers the biggest selling gas boiler brand in the UK, have spent millions on development of hydrogen fired boilers in the last few years.

I can imagine it would simply be a logistical nightmare if existing boilers required modification, cost, age of the appliance etc :|

Tim.

The idea is that any new boiler has to be able to run on 100% H2, in the short term, natural gas in the ring main will contain about 20% H2, a blend as it were, most modern gas boilers will function with this amount, however some older models may not. When you eventually replace your gas boiler it will work on 100% H2.
The Government are not banning gas boilers from 2025, just new builds from this date will use a heat pump, they can use this method because of the thermal efficiency of modern housing, the rest of us cannot. Adding 20% H2 to Natural Gas will reduce CO2 significantly, about the same as taking 1.2 million cars off the road.

Hydrogen can be stored either in liquid form by cooling or in compressed form, cars will store H2 at around 600 bar (equivalent to almost 6 km of water) and 400 bar for buses and lorries. H2 is a liquid at -252c at atmospheric pressure, increasing pressure increases this temperature, however it is impractical to use this method for storage for cars.

 

[Pondy]

The idea is that any new boiler has to be able to run on 100% H2, in the short term, natural gas in the ring main will contain about 20% H2, a blend as it were, most modern gas boilers will function with this amount, however some older models may not. When you eventually replace your gas boiler it will work on 100% H2.

Very interesting Sars
I can see that all existing boilers will need to have their water drainage altered/upgraded. At present even modern condensing boilers only create a dribble of condensate water. Hydrogen creates gallons of the stuff.
In a few years I can see the next problem being the millions of gallons of excess water sloshing around the planet.

 

[TitanTim]

Yes, there would have to be a way to run existing boilers on either town gas or Hydrogen. When (or if) the changeover to H2 happens it will be all or nothing as they will use the same infrastructure. To alter millions of boilers to run on either will cost billions. I don't think the UK Government will offer grants for this. If we are talking the next few years, they had better get their finger out in letting the public know.
I know that Bosch, who make Worcester boilers the biggest selling gas boiler brand in the UK, have spent millions on development of hydrogen fired boilers in the last few years.

I can imagine it would simply be a logistical nightmare if existing boilers required modification, cost, age of the appliance etc :|

Tim.

The idea is that any new boiler has to be able to run on 100% H2, in the short term, natural gas in the ring main will contain about 20% H2, a blend as it were, most modern gas boilers will function with this amount, however some older models may not. When you eventually replace your gas boiler it will work on 100% H2.
The Government are not banning gas boilers from 2025, just new builds from this date will use a heat pump, they can use this method because of the thermal efficiency of modern housing, the rest of us cannot. Adding 20% H2 to Natural Gas will reduce CO2 significantly, about the same as taking 1.2 million cars off the road.

Hydrogen can be stored either in liquid form by cooling or in compressed form, cars will store H2 at around 600 bar (equivalent to almost 6 km of water) and 400 bar for buses and lorries. H2 is a liquid at -252c at atmospheric pressure, increasing pressure increases this temperature, however it is impractical to use this method for storage for cars.

Thanks for explanation blending would make sense, for some reason I was imagining gas being phased out entirely depending if Putin shuts the taps off the way things are going :? My boiler is 20 years old and still going strong so hopefully it will last a few years yet. No idea if it would have the capability to run on a blend of Gas and H2 though.

Tim.

 

[sars]

The idea is that any new boiler has to be able to run on 100% H2, in the short term, natural gas in the ring main will contain about 20% H2, a blend as it were, most modern gas boilers will function with this amount, however some older models may not. When you eventually replace your gas boiler it will work on 100% H2.

Very interesting Sars
I can see that all existing boilers will need to have their water drainage altered/upgraded. At present even modern condensing boilers only create a dribble of condensate water. Hydrogen creates gallons of the stuff.
In a few years I can see the next problem being the millions of gallons of excess water sloshing around the planet.

Think of Hydrogen as the perfect battery, because that's what it is. The first law of thermodynamics states that you cannot create energy just transform it into something else. We pass water through an electrolyser and add electricity (there are other methods) and we thus separate out Hydrogen and Oxygen. We can then burn the H2 or using a fuel cell, utalise the energy in H2 and create heat or electricity and we end up with water. Thus the only real question is how we create the electricity to start the process and where do we produce the hydrogen, once made it can be stored and shipped to where it's needed, simples.

 

[Bottom]

Found this page quite helpful in explaining all the different ways H2 is obtained: https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/hydrogen-colour-spectrum