Potential M - advice appreciated

I agree with Steven, (again :thumbsup: ), however i WILL say - when i bought mine, i thoroughly researched the car's history, and that definitely included this forum - so if i was to buy Exdos' car, id be well aware of his works, experience and knowledge, and viewing it knowing he completes some works himself - but it would actually open me up to a deeper conversation with him about the state of the car (a big +postiive)

So yes, on face value to average-joe buyer, self-completed servicing can be a negative, but Z4MC's aren't typically bought on a whim by non-enthusiasts (hence the awesomeness of this forum..) and so i'd expect the typical buyer would be aware and go into the purchase knowingly.
 
Just spoke with BMW's warranty department, the chap has always maintained a pay as you go warranty but as the car hasn't been serviced for 4 years he says that is invalid and BMW will not provide me with cover should I wish to purchase. He told me there is no tolerance and that it must be serviced every 2 years otherwise you will not be covered... So if anything did go wrong I would be up sh!t creak as the saying goes...
 
Ninarvana said:
Just spoke with BMW's warranty department, the chap has always maintained a pay as you go warranty but as the car hasn't been serviced for 4 years he says that is invalid and BMW will not provide me with cover should I wish to purchase. He told me there is no tolerance and that it must be serviced every 2 years otherwise you will not be covered... So if anything did go wrong I would be up sh!t creak as the saying goes...
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This is the answer I got also. However othes have letters from BMW and Monidal or whoever it is saying they will be covered as long as an inspection 2 is carried out.

On the tracking issue, take PVR's car as an example. Never been on a track, but has done 145+ over in Germany for sustained periods. As said best to assume they have all seem some action in one form or another.
 
exdos said:
I've just been reading an article about Nick Mason's 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=29762 which has been raced every year of it's life. For those who get a bit precious about cars worth around £20k having seen track action; this Ferrari is worth around £30million! :thumbsup:
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Literally just read this too; good article. Insane to think at the time it was 'just another le mans car' and today its worth £30m!
 
exdos said:
I've just been reading an article about Nick Mason's 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=29762 which has been raced every year of it's life. For those who get a bit precious about cars worth around £20k having seen track action; this Ferrari is worth around £30million! :thumbsup:
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AGREEEE... for gods sake... some of the BEST and i mean BESt condition cars i see are at my local sprint / track events, the car SHAME 99% of them out their, looked after to a new level.... of course their are the dogs too but many very valuable cars that are loved to an inch of their life, just enjoyed... mechanical sympathy is the key, donuts and all that crap is imo abuse.... driving a car hard is imo what all this petrol head stuff is about, as is cruising around too on a sunny day....
 
exdos said:
I've just been reading an article about Nick Mason's 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=29762 which has been raced every year of it's life. For those who get a bit precious about cars worth around £20k having seen track action; this Ferrari is worth around £30million! :thumbsup:
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Worth noting though that he uses a different engine to race with....as he doesn't want to ruin the original....

The engine has also been heavily modified.

Nick Mason can also obviously afford the engine rebuilds / maintenance involved with historic racing. A £20k car is my limit. It's all relative. In fact I'm going to go on record and say that Nick Mason can probably more readily afford an engine rebuild, even on a 250GTO, than most ///M owners could on an ///M.
 
StevenH72 said:
exdos said:
I've just been reading an article about Nick Mason's 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=29762 which has been raced every year of it's life. For those who get a bit precious about cars worth around £20k having seen track action; this Ferrari is worth around £30million! :thumbsup:
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Worth noting though that he uses a different engine to race with....as he doesn't want to ruin the original....

The engine has also been heavily modified.

Nick Mason can also obviously afford the engine rebuilds / maintenance involved with historic racing. A £20k car is my limit. It's all relative. In fact I'm going to go on record and say that Nick Mason can probably more readily afford an engine rebuild, even on a 250GTO, than most ///M owners could on an ///M.
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used within its design brief and with sympathy the s54 will thrive been warmed up and stretched, thats what it was designed for.... i love to hear mine sing :-)
 
Beedub said:
StevenH72 said:
exdos said:
I've just been reading an article about Nick Mason's 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=29762 which has been raced every year of it's life. For those who get a bit precious about cars worth around £20k having seen track action; this Ferrari is worth around £30million! :thumbsup:
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Worth noting though that he uses a different engine to race with....as he doesn't want to ruin the original....

The engine has also been heavily modified.

Nick Mason can also obviously afford the engine rebuilds / maintenance involved with historic racing. A £20k car is my limit. It's all relative. In fact I'm going to go on record and say that Nick Mason can probably more readily afford an engine rebuild, even on a 250GTO, than most ///M owners could on an ///M.
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used within its design brief and with sympathy the s54 will thrive been warmed up and stretched, thats what it was designed for.... i love to hear mine sing :-)
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Absolutely, but even though it will thrive, certain components will show greater signs of wear at an earlier stage (in terms of miles covered) on an S54 that has been extensively tracked over one which hasn't.
 
ruby black is IMO one of the best colours, mine has been machine polished by autodetail last year... looks great .. but I'd rather wait for one with carbon dash and folding mirrors;)

driving it regularely but not too much ;) 2k last year ...especially not on salty roads...and make sure to stretch it now and then when its warmed up properly ..

got a question ..do i need to change the oil every year even I've done 2k miles since last service?? or can I get away doing it next year?
 
StevenH72 said:
tertius said:
Threads like these make me wonder if people forget what cars are for.
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...go on?
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Well, driving ... and in the case of the M driving hard, otherwise why buy one? Realistically the only place you can drive an M hard is on track, so ...
 
tertius said:
StevenH72 said:
tertius said:
Threads like these make me wonder if people forget what cars are for.
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...go on?
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Well, driving ... and in the case of the M driving hard, otherwise why buy one? Realistically the only place you can drive an M hard is on track, so ...
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So what's your point? Surely, regardless of your intended driving style / location, you'd want to buy the best example you could afford?

If you're faced with two M's, both £17k, both same spec, mileage, service history and both have fastidious owners. But one has covered 25k track miles and the other hasn't covered any, which would you buy?
 
When you buy a car on HP an M car particularly if it hasn't been serviced properly there is a £3.5k "fine" to make.

If you buy the car it will probably be fine but no one that has any knowledge of the engine especially on here would touch it unless it was a serious bargain.

I also think that regardless of whether the car is tracked or not the car was designed for this kind of abuse and correct servicing is a must and if it has been carried out then the car should be fine. The only thing to worry about is half shaft bearings, thats pretty much the only component on the S54 mechanically that will fail after abuse or hard work as it is a wearable item. If that is a worry £800 will sort it and should be on every owners sort list as the car gets to 80-100k.

Now if the car has not been serviced correctly… and driven spiritedly say (as 90% of these cars will be) these engines are made up of small tolerances and especially oil is a big big issue especially 4 years!!! No chance would I be buying it.

The only other issue is engine mounts but you can give these a visual check, but these fail in different conditions so is different for every car and worth keeping an eye on.
 
StevenH72 said:
tertius said:
StevenH72 said:
...go on?
Click to expand...

Well, driving ... and in the case of the M driving hard, otherwise why buy one? Realistically the only place you can drive an M hard is on track, so ...
Click to expand...

So what's your point? Surely, regardless of your intended driving style / location, you'd want to buy the best example you could afford?

If you're faced with two M's, both £17k, both same spec, mileage, service history and both have fastidious owners. But one has covered 25k track miles and the other hasn't covered any, which would you buy?
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Not a realistic scenario but I'd buy on condition.

Yes, I'd want the best and if the best had been driven on track I'd buy that one (and indeed I did). My experience is that tracked cars are generally maintained more carefully and more thoroughly than those that are not. Issues are identified and solved immediately as you don't want to risk wasting time and money on a track day due to a reliability issue.
 
tertius said:
Not a realistic scenario but I'd buy on condition.

Yes, I'd want the best and if the best had been driven on track I'd buy that one (and indeed I did). My experience is that tracked cars are generally maintained more carefully and more thoroughly than those that are not. Issues are identified and solved immediately as you don't want to risk wasting time and money on a track day due to a reliability issue.
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Unless you pay a hefty fee to have a specialist inspect the internals of an engine you won't necessarily know what condition it is in. You will have to make a certain amount of assumptions, in terms of ownership, usage, maintenance etc, with any second hand car purchase.

Many owners on here are fastidious owners, including (for the time being at least) PVR, who I don't believe regularly tracks his car but is probably as thorough with his car's condition than any other owner. I do accept your point that cars that are tracked heavily are generally maintained very carefully, but a lot of these cars are owned by enthusiasts, not all of which want to track them, but want to keep them in fantastic condition, so will also be maintained very carefully.

It's a simple fact that tracking will increase the stress applied to the engine and will accelerate any wear and tear items, I'm not saying I wouldn't buy a car that has been tracked, but I am saying that it would feature as a consideration on my buying checklist. If I had the confidence that the owner had taken all necessary precautionary steps, with regards to preventative maintenance items, then fine. However, if I didn't have this confidence, that it had been heavily tracked would weigh on my mind.
 
Ye but on the same token "garage queens" tend to sit… so it could be just as bad for a car that is not used and used spiritedly on occasion. People may be fastidious but do you trust that is 100% the case all the time? Many M cars on this forum have had more problems with low milage rather than high milage.

Pros and cons to both and neither is right or wrong. Pointless arguing about it.
 
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