Potential M - advice appreciated

Ninarvana said:
I had a good chat with Stuart @ ML and he was very helpful... One major issue I realized I had overlooked after our chat was the brake fluid... At the last oil service 4 years ago, the brake fluid wasn't changed which means it hasn't been changed since 2009 but more importantly, that was 20K miles ago! I can't justify that and so I'm going to walk from this one. If it had had the brake done at the last service as well, I would have taken a look but with all this combined I can't ignore the potential issues down the line... Major :thumbsdown:

Brake fluid is hygroscopic (absorbs water) and BMW advise that the brake fluid should be changed every 2 years because of this. However, how many cars on our roads which are older than 2 years have brake fluid which is less than 2 years old? I bet it's a minority. The problem of old brake fluid is more one of the safety of the vehicle when it has old brake fluid, but once the brake fluid has been changed, that problem is then solved, and you'd then be back to normal for the brake fluid maintenance.

I'm in no way advocating or condoning bad servicing, instead I'm simply suggesting the case for not looking a gift horse in the mouth if you can get one. Good luck! :thumbsup:
 
If you are happy with the condition of the car just use the brake fluid issue to negotiate new discs and pads all round and a discount off the price to reflect the incomplete service/maintenance history.
 
original guvnor said:
If you are happy with the condition of the car just use the brake fluid issue to negotiate new discs and pads all round and a discount off the price to reflect the incomplete service/maintenance history.

Exactly. When I'm buying cars (or anything secondhand) I love to find little niggles because it gives me a great advantage in negotiating the price downwards. I can become a complete Prophet of Doom and if the seller buys my dreadful pessimism I'll convince him/her to sell to me just to take the item off his/her hands. I wonder how much I paid for my 2007 Z4MC with 25k miles 2 years ago???? 8) :P
 
Just out of curiosity - any new car has the same brake fluid for THREE years before the first brake fluid service, then after that it needs to be changed every two years. Not sure I understand that logic, but it applies to my X5 and the Polo is the same as well.
 
Ninarvana said:
I have told the chap my concerns over the SH, he has replied with saying 'what if I were to get the service done'...

If you would be happy to proceed if you could buy at a bargain price, I would go back to him and tell him that his offer would help a bit, but there's nothing that can be done to take away the fact that the service history of this car remains blighted forever, which will affect the resale value of this car should you buy it, therefore his car isn't worth what he would like to get for it. Tell the seller what Parkers gives as the trade-in price of his car and offer him the lowest Private price Parkers gives and then take it from there. If you don't use this tactic you can bet your boots someone else will.

Selling cars privately can be a hassle, so for the sake of a few grand, the seller might agree that a bird in the hand is more profitable than having to do a trade-in or wait for another buyer to come along who might offer less than you.
 
I appreciate all your advice and it's certainly all food for thought! If I wasn't fussed about resale I wouldn't be so concerned but I don't wish to resell the car and hit upon the same issue, I certainly wouldn't feel too great and well I wish to cherish a car that has been cherished in return. I have sent a message to the seller and he replied with 'okay no worries'...
 
Ninarvana said:
I wish to cherish a car that has been cherished in return.
Here's a couple of questions for you. I like to think that I properly look after my cars and my Z4MC is immaculate. Because I don't do many miles in my Z4MC it'll be ages before the next Inspection is required, so I do my own oil and brake fluid changes at the required 2 year intervals as well as doing other jobs on the car (change the suspension, brakes parts etc.). Would this put someone in your position off from considering purchasing my car, should I ever wish to sell it?

My Z4MC lives in a well ventilated building when it's not being driven but I like to take my cars around The Ring and drive them as I believe they should be driven. Would you say that I cherish my Z4MC, or not, and knowing this fact, would it put you off from considering purchasing such a car?
 
Knowing that you don't do the mileage but opt to therefore adhere to the schedule and tinker with the car yourself to me says you certainly do look after your car and are a meticulous owner. As long as you knew what you were doing this would lead me to feel confident in purchasing a car that had been cared for in this manor.

As for tracking, as a first choice I wouldn't be looking for one that had been extensively tracked, particulary on standard set up.
 
Ninarvana said:
Knowing that you don't do the mileage but opt to therefore adhere to the schedule and tinker with the car yourself to me says you certainly do look after your car and are a meticulous owner. As long as you knew what you were doing this would lead me to feel confident in purchasing a car that had been cared for in this manor.

As for tracking, as a first choice I wouldn't be looking for one that had been extensively tracked, particulary on standard set up.

What's wrong with it going around a track then??
 
Ninarvana said:
As for tracking, as a first choice I wouldn't be looking for one that had been extensively tracked, particulary on standard set up.

I bet by now, most of them have seen some track action at some stage, so I would think it best to assume that they've all been on track. The rev limiter prevents over-revving and the service indicator system calculates the servicing requirements, which accounts for the higher fuel use on track.
 
exdos said:
Ninarvana said:
As for tracking, as a first choice I wouldn't be looking for one that had been extensively tracked, particulary on standard set up.

I bet by now, most of them have seen some track action at some stage, so I would think it best to assume that they've all been on track.


Probably not much difference to someone taking their weekend car out of the garage for a drive/thrash on a quiet road!

In terms of the engine, wasn't the S54 basically designed for a racing series?
 
CornishRob said:
In terms of the engine, wasn't the S54 basically designed for a racing series?

Apparently there's not a lot of difference between the internals of the S54 and a F1 engine (NA type).
 
As I understand it not changing the brake fluid gives two issues from absorbed water.
The absorbed water reducing the boiling point- meaning you may lose brake power if you overheat the brakes and boil the water.
The water in the fluid corrodes the calipers from the inside, sticky calipers = replacement calipers needed.
 
don't worry about a well driven s54..... thats what its designed for, mechanical sympathy is something we all need to exercise, sadly buying used is always like throwing a dice......
 
exdos said:
ecause I don't do many miles in my Z4MC it'll be ages before the next Inspection is required, so I do my own oil and brake fluid changes at the required 2 year intervals as well as doing other jobs on the car (change the suspension, brakes parts etc.). Would this put someone in your position off from considering purchasing my car, should I ever wish to sell it?

Personally, Exdos, I do think this would put some buyers off. Not as a criticism to you or your level of mechanical expertise, but it all boils down to a sort of pseudo risk analysis. From contributing on this forum, and speaking with you about a few issues, it is clear that you know what you're talking about.

But as a buyer, I'm unlikely to know this....I wouldn't know you from Adam, as they say. If I turned up to look at a Z4MC and the owner had carried out his own oil services, how do I know that he knows what he is on about. How do I know he has carried out the service correctly. What other aspects of the engine has he worked on himself? You may have carried it all out perfectly (and probably better than BMW), but unless I have the confidence that you are competent it would be one too many unknowns for me.

As Beedub said, buying second hand is like throwing a dice. There are going to be a lot of unknowns (i.e. how it's been cared for historically, has it been tracked extensively, engine warmed up before any meaningful load applied etc.), things like service histroy, condition of paintwork, condition of interior, modifications all give an indication into the potential history / condition of a car.

Whilst these cares aren't £70k, they are (I'd imagine) for most buyers a very expensive purchase and every step will be taken to try to establish the condition of the car as objectively as possible. If I was going to replace my car now, would I be happy to buy yours.....Yes. If I was looking at your car a year ago when I knew a lot less about the Z4MC and you as a person, would I have bought yours.....possibly not, as the self-servicing would have made me anxious (through my own ignorance of the process), but then most potential buyers probably are pretty ignorant when it comes to mechanics / engineering.

If Nina was looking for a keeper then I'd say go for it. If she keeps it for 3-5 years and puts another couple of services on it, then OK, this will probably help for future sellers, but the car has 41k miles on it and is missing services. There are plenty of cars out there with this sort of mileage with much better service histories. Unless somebody is distinctly looking for a Ruby Black Z4MC, they'll probably just move on to the next.

Personally, I'd walk away. Would it be a mistake...possibly, but I wouldnt be willing to take the risk.

As for tracking the car, from what I've read extensive tracking will put additional stress on the engine and speed up the wear and tear of certain items (rod bearings, cam followers etc.). Sure most of these cars probably have seen a track by now, but there's a difference between the odd track day and extensively being tracked. My car for example still has the original front tyres on (28k...which I will be changing next month), but this gave me the confidence to believe that the car hasn't been driven overly hard.
 
exdos said:
Ninarvana said:
As for tracking, as a first choice I wouldn't be looking for one that had been extensively tracked, particulary on standard set up.

I bet by now, most of them have seen some track action at some stage, so I would think it best to assume that they've all been on track. The rev limiter prevents over-revving and the service indicator system calculates the servicing requirements, which accounts for the higher fuel use on track.

I think it is a little over presumptuous to assume all cars have been tracked. I didn't say I was against tracking but for me personally as a buyer I certainly wouldn't wish to purchase a car that has been extensively tracked or indeed tracked at all and that's my personal preference. As Steven has mentioned and I'm sure this has been discussed at length before but extensive ring use on a standard car would to me indicate potential premature wear. We all know the horror stories that can plague the internals, I can't see this helping the matter :)
I test drove a shed at Sytner Solihull last year that to me seemed like it had been abused on a track and the thing was damn knackered, at 65K.
 
Talksthetorque said:
As I understand it not changing the brake fluid gives two issues from absorbed water.
The absorbed water reducing the boiling point- meaning you may lose brake power if you overheat the brakes and boil the water.
The water in the fluid corrodes the calipers from the inside, sticky calipers = replacement calipers needed.

Interesting point :thumbsup:. As the car has not seen this changed in 5 years/20K miles if there were caliper issues that would then fall on me as the potential buyer.
 
I think it is a little over presumptuous to assume all cars have been tracked. I didn't say I was against tracking but for me personally as a buyer I certainly wouldn't wish to purchase a car that has been extensively tracked or indeed tracked at all and that's my personal preference. As Steven has mentioned and I'm sure this has been discussed at length before but extensive ring use on a standard car would to me indicate potential premature wear. We all know the horror stories that can plague the internals, I can't see this helping the matter :)
I test drove a shed at Sytner Solihull last year that to me seemed like it had been abused on a track and the thing was damn knackered, at 65K.

I understand what your saying Nina, but here is another situation for you: (Playing Devils Advocate here)

A car is tracked a bit (I understand you have used the word extensively, but I think in tracking terms, that can be a little subjective), say like Exodus or mmm5, but they get much regular oil changes because of it, say right before or after so they are always running on fresh oil. What will cause more wear? A car running new fresh oil driven hard for a few hours, or a car with the same oil in it for 2 years?

Like you say, ideally everyone would probably prefer a car that has not been tracked, but I don't think it should necessarily put people off if in discussion, the owner was honest and said yes, I took it to the Nurburg once a year etc etc, providing it had been cares for accordingly. The only way around it is buy a new car (not possible with Z4m).

Good luck with your search.
 
StevenH72 and Ninavarna,

I asked my questions to see what the response might be and I'm not at all surprised by your answers. I've always realised that my DIYing might put some people off should I ever wish to sell, but that's not a concern to me. When I started buying cars in the early 1970s, it was commonplace for many owners to spend their weekends servicing their cars and that's how I started off.

My suggestion that it would be best to consider that all Z4MCs have been tracked, even though some won't have been, was to highlight the fact that you really haven't got a clue what any previous owner has done with a car during his/her ownership, therefore it's best to consider that every car you consider buying has been abused in one way or another, so you then need to look to see how well it has survived the experience.

Maybe I have a different attitude to both of you in buying what I want? When buying anything secondhand, it's always been my way to keep the field as wide open as possible in making my choice and I avoid at all costs heavily weighting my decisions with a specific colour preference because to do so considerably restricts my choice. Restricting your choice to Ruby Black gives you access to less than 10% of the total Z4MCs in the UK, for me, that's far too narrow a choice for cars which are now 7 years or more old.
 
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