Porsche 996 brake caliper upgrade

AndyBeech

AndyBeech

Senior member
 Wiltshire
Has anyone got this setup front and rear and any comments on how much hassle it is to fit / complications etc. Would need to get brackets for the set I’m thinking of but seems like a good upgrade...hoping for some opinion before I drop the dollar! :thumbsup:
 
What are you hoping to achieve with the upgrade? They look good but you lose about 1/5th of the piston area vs stock.
 
Lot of faff and not much less money than a set of Ksport or D2 brakes imo.
 
Am hoping to do a few track days a year so reduce fade was the aim I guess. Was a set of calipers, pads and discs for £850 which seemed reasonable, though obviously fitting and brackets on top of that.

Maybe I’ll just see how the OEM setup works with the cooling kit I have first and go from there....
 
For at least a couple of track days, I'd try decent brake fluid & bleed, decent pads (Pagid RS29 or Performance Friction). If you're still getting fade after a couple of laps on those then you may need to change your braking technique and/or the calipers - as the single pot ones on the Z4M can only take so much.

I could happily do 20 minute sessions at Oulton Park on standard calipers with uprated fluid & pads (Yellowstuff/Bluestuff at the time as I got an excellent price from EBC for being a marshal...about £100 for a 4-wheel set) - or about 3 laps of the Ring (tyres & fuel were the limiting factor there).

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If you do go down the Porsche Brembo route then:

You'll need brackets, HEL/Goodridge hoses, 12-15mm spacers & longer bolts for the fronts.

You'll need brackets & hoses for the rear and also need to cut away the rear brake shield - which may require a new one if it's not in a good state - and they're a bitch to replace as you have to remove the whole assembly to get behind the handbrake.

You'll also have to work out how to do a brake pad wear sensor, as Brembo sensor won't work with the Z4, and the standard sensor won't fit in the Brembo pads. I just do a regular visual check instead.

New discs may be required too, if they're a few years old and you're going to be putting new parts everywhere else.
 
mmm-five said:
For at least a couple of track days, I'd try decent brake fluid & bleed, decent pads (Pagid RS29 or Performance Friction). If you're still getting fade after a couple of laps on those then you may need to change your braking technique and/or the calipers - as the single pot ones on the Z4M can only take so much.

I could happily do 20 minute sessions at Oulton Park on standard calipers with uprated fluid & pads (Yellowstuff/Bluestuff at the time as I got an excellent price from EBC for being a marshal...about £100 for a 4-wheel set) - or about 3 laps of the Ring (tyres & fuel were the limiting factor there).

----
If you do go down the Porsche Brembo route then:

You'll need brackets, HEL/Goodridge hoses, 12-15mm spacers & longer bolts for the fronts.

You'll need brackets & hoses for the rear and also need to cut away the rear brake shield - which may require a new one if it's not in a good state - and they're a bitch to replace as you have to remove the whole assembly to get behind the handbrake.

You'll also have to work out how to do a brake pad wear sensor, as Brembo sensor won't work with the Z4, and the standard sensor won't fit in the Brembo pads. I just do a regular visual check instead.

New discs may be required too, if they're a few years old and you're going to be putting new parts everywhere else.
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Thanks for that, just what I was after, pretty much sums up my thinking.

I’ve got PF pads all round and RBF600 fluid plus the cooling kit so I’ll see how that runs before committing any further then. My interest was tweaked by the price but seems quite a lot of work needed on top to actually fit them. Plus rears sound better left OEM!
 
My experience with brakes for the E85 platform is as follows -

On a 3.0 2003 roadster - average miles
Stock brakes
K-sport brakes front and rear

On a Z4m roadster - low miles
Stock brakes
Stock with upgraded lines and pads (DS2500)
Porsche Brembo front and rear with DS2500
AP front and rear (Z4M kit from new, not modified E46 M3 kit)

I would say that for brake feel and threshold braking, the Brembo was a significant upgrade over stock. With the stock brakes they had power but lacked modulation and feel. The only reason I went to AP's was because I wanted to run coilovers and play with the ride height, change wheels and the Brembos required running spaces which didn't allow the setup that I wanted. Otherwise I would have happily stayed with the Brembo's.

I appreciate braking feel and setup is personal preference, I like an immediate pedal that allows the reach the threshold without triggering ABS. The Brembo's delivered just this and they were fit + forget. The K-sport brakes on my old Z4 were absolute pieces of junk, the tolerances, fit finish were beyond belief. I may have just got unlucky with a friday afternoon set however I wouldn't touch them again.

AP have been great but for the cost (more than double Brembo) I'm struggling to find the value however I don't track my Z4M.
 
Hey Andy, good advice here, I'd just try the modded standard stuff you have for a while. If you feel like you need more I would save up for the best you can, buy cheap, buy twice and all that, (I used to have 6pot front and 4 pot rear brembos so I've been down this road!).
Or... you could buy my old AP 5575 Z4M front kit for cheap :)... well a grand or so say? (the ones that were on the car when you were in it last year). I cleaned them up months ago and they're in great nick but never got round to a sale ad, drop me a pm if you like. Includes the z4m specific bell/bracket/lines so you would need discs (reyland do them for about £300 and pads of your choice (I may still have the original toffee AP/DS2500 pads that come with the kit somewhere). Fits under 224s with no spacers, mega product which you'll always get your money back on if you chose to sell I'd say. https://www.amber-performance.co.uk/product.php?xProd=6987&xSec=616
 
Upgrade the front brakes to a BBK from the likes of AP or Alcon.

Upgrading to the likes of the Porsche brake set up may be adequate for your intended track use, but you will not see the money back when it comes time to sell.
 
running APs over here.... they are some of the best brakes i've ever experienced for feel and performance. Have to say i felt the stock setup was fantastic but obviously nearly doubling power they were struggling. Even on the first stage of supercharging they were excellent. I think you'll be surprised how well they cope with the right parts and fluids with them .
 
Babw said:
I would say that for brake feel and threshold braking, the Brembo was a significant upgrade over stock. With the stock brakes they had power but lacked modulation and feel. The only reason I went to AP's was because I wanted to run coilovers and play with the ride height, change wheels and the Brembos required running spaces which didn't allow the setup that I wanted. Otherwise I would have happily stayed with the Brembo's.
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Really good info. On the face of it they don’t seem like a great match for the Z4M master cylinder, but the f/r balance is perfect and a set can be picked up very cheaply. Makes me wonder if the shorter pedal and under-servoing is actually an “upgrade” for more enthusiastic drivers. There is certainly no shortage of assistance in the stock setup - perhaps a bit too much.
 
That AP kit is tempting....PM sent Tom, cheers matey! Thanks for the info all.....torn now between sticking and see how it works out or just going in for it, logic says see how OEM works for a while but can't resist a bargain, or like losing a bargain! :lol:
 
I have the same kit as Tom - it is a cracking kit!

Tom I'm guessing you've upgraded to Malc Bucks AP kit so you can run the btcc discs? :roll:
 
If you are going to use it properly on track then AP is the way.

I have AP's on my E46 & E92 M3 that are track cars, they will take as much punishment as you can give them.
 
Go for a properly engineered and evaluated kit with bigger brake disks, or don't bother. The extra leverage and mass you get from larger circumference brake disks, is a major benefit in braking performance.

A cobbled together kit with calipers that do not properly sweep the disks, could also have insurance implications. Brakes are a major factor in a lot of accidents and with a large claim, they will investigate every possible reason not to pay on a claim. Even if you declare the calipers, they will assume they meet all relevant standards and are road worthy.
 
R60BBA said:
Upgrade the front brakes to a BBK from the likes of AP or Alcon...
Click to expand...
Alcon don’t make a kit for the Z4M and the E46 M3 front BBK doesn’t fit our cars.

mmm-five said:
For at least a couple of track days, I'd try decent brake fluid & bleed, decent pads (Pagid RS29 or Performance Friction). If you're still getting fade after a couple of laps on those then you may need to change your braking technique and/or the calipers - as the single pot ones on the Z4M can only take so much.

I could happily do 20 minute sessions at Oulton Park on standard calipers with uprated fluid & pads (Yellowstuff/Bluestuff at the time as I got an excellent price from EBC for being a marshal...about £100 for a 4-wheel set) - or about 3 laps of the Ring (tyres & fuel were the limiting factor there).
Click to expand...

I ran OEM brakes with solid bushings, updated fluid and pads and cooling ducts for a long time and they never let me down even with very heavy track use. However, the brakes lacked feel, especially when hot and just didn’t inspire much confidence. I swapped to APs front and rear immediately before shipping the car to Aus (so I never tested them in anger in the UK). My first track day here was at Eastern Creek in 35 degree heat. I spent the day chasing my mate in his C63S and the brakes behaved predictably and in an identical fashion from the first time I used them to the end of the day. I’d definitely take up Tom’s offer were I in your position...
As an aside, don’t under estimate the benefit of suspension modifications on improving braking. When I changed from Eibach springs with OEM dampers to KW Clubsports, my braking distances were markedly shorter on the same tracks. I have almost no pitch under braking so all four tyres are contributing to the deceleration effort (and I can carry more speed through the corners).
 
MrPT said:
p
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I have tried to figure out the actual loss if any, because even when the piston area is smaller, the pad is larger, without actual engineering studies (not internet excel sheets) is very difficult to accurately say what is, and what is not an upgrade.

I just installed the 6-pot Brembo and the feel is nicely improved, and have no way to tell if I have less brake power, I am still able to trigger ABS if I stomped the brakes just as before, yet, they are easier to modulate as the pedal is firmer the more you press it, whereas with the OE setup is always the same so your only feedback for modulation is travel.
 
You may find these topics interesting

https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/main-forum/e46-2001-2006/3153-porsche-brembo-996-bbk-conversion
https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/main-forum/e46-2001-2006/6402-porsche-996-brembo-bbk-conversion-install
https://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1707464
 
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