On the look out for an E89 Z4

B

Beerman

Member
Hi, I'm on the look out for a Z4 for a bit of summer fun.

I was ideally looking for a 30i manual in M Sport spec, but there isn't much choice at the moment. The nice ones on AutoTrader are priced very highly. A good looking one came up through other day at a strong price, but it sold fast.

How much of a compromise is the 23i? There is more choice of them, but I do notice they are not selling. They sit for a long time.

Is timing chain issues as bad as it sounds for for 20i and 28i?

The other thing that stands out to me is pricing of cars is all over the place.
 
Beerman said:
The other thing that stands out to me is pricing of cars is all over the place.
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Seems to be what happens when the market is on the fall. Lots of trade can't (or won't) drop prices much or they may not make their £3,000-£4,000 on every car....and we can't have that, can we? I know of several cars which have been for sale for 3 years! Madness.

Many private sellers are still deluded and living in 2022.
 
You are right, there seem to be far more 23i than 30i models to choose from which may go some way to explaining the higher prices.

Maybe the only way to see if a 23i is a compromise you can live with the best option would be to try one.

I've had the same N52 engines in a 325i and a 330i because I found the 325i a little underwhelming, but that may have been partly because it was a 325i Touring! But aside from that any N52 is a great engine which is why I sought them out having had two in my first Z4s.
 
I had a 23i and not certain the 30i would have made a great deal off difference, don't track the car and everywhere you go you will be stuck behind someone doing 30mph
 
Mr Tidy said:
You are right, there seem to be far more 23i than 30i models to choose from
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Probably because the 23i was the 'entry level' E89 in 2009. The 30i is the same N52 just bored out by 500cc and was (no doubt) a lot more expensive. I don't think the N20 (in 20 and 28 flavours) was offered until 2010-11?
Then in 2013 when they face-lifted the model, the N52 had been dropped for a year of so and the 18i became the 'entry level' model. Funny that you don't see many 18is; more 20is. :?
 
Pondrew said:
Probably because the 23i was the 'entry level' E89 in 2009. The 30i is the same N52 just bored out by 500cc and was (no doubt) a lot more expensive.
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True, and perhaps anyone with a higher budget looking for more performance skipped the 30i and went straight for a 35i/35is!
 
Personally I think the 3.0 is the sweet spot for the E89. I find the 23i slightly under powered. If you can wait I would hold out for the right one 🙂
 
Pondrew said:
Beerman said:
The other thing that stands out to me is pricing of cars is all over the place.
Click to expand...
Seems to be what happens when the market is on the fall. Lots of trade can't (or won't) drop prices much or they may not make their £3,000-£4,000 on every car....and we can't have that, can we? I know of several cars which have been for sale for 3 years! Madness.

Many private sellers are still deluded and living in 2022.
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Some of the private sale cars are priced higher than dealer cars. I had noticed a number of them had been on sale for a long time.

A couple of nice 30i came up over the last few days. A white manual one and a black auto. Both sold within days. The white one was £8610, 62 plate 72,300 miles, and the auto £7950.

I did enquire about the white one, but someone got in ahead of me.
 
I guess it depends what you want to do with the car whether an s23i is OK or not.
For me I only wanted a run around and my s23i turned out cheaper than getting something like a fiesta at the time. It's still 200 bhp and fitting a £30 throttle controller will completely transform how it drives.
 
Five-O said:
I guess it depends what you want to do with the car whether an s23i is OK or not.
For me I only wanted a run around and my s23i turned out cheaper than getting something like a fiesta at the time. It's still 200 bhp and fitting a £30 throttle controller will completely transform how it drives.
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What is the throttle controller you are talking about?
 
Beerman said:
Five-O said:
I guess it depends what you want to do with the car whether an s23i is OK or not.
For me I only wanted a run around and my s23i turned out cheaper than getting something like a fiesta at the time. It's still 200 bhp and fitting a £30 throttle controller will completely transform how it drives.
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What is the throttle controller you are talking about?
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It’s a throttle pedal tuning box, it basically improves throttle pedal response. I have it on my 30i and it does make a difference. As to the argument about 23i vs 30i, I would say if you can, hold out until the right 30i comes along. Not only do you get much better performance which is noticeable but also it will hold its value much better compared to the 23i or 20i even. I think you’ve already noticed that. As for the N20 18i to 28i the timing chain issue is there and many are affected, budget £1000 or so to replace the chain if the car you are looking at hasn’t had it done.
 
Beerman said:
Some of the private sale cars are priced higher than dealer cars.
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I have noticed that too in the last few years. It NEVER used to happen in the good 'ole days when cars just lost money; it was a fact of life.
Maybe Covid has affected people's brains as well as everything else? :?
 
Silverstar said:
As for the N20 18i to 28i the timing chain issue is there and many are affected, budget £1000 or so to replace the chain if the car you are looking at hasn’t had it done.
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OK, they are. But on forums like this it has become such 'folklore' that it is affecting resale values of the N20. I visit many BMW forums and people are 'scared' of the N20. it's ridiculous.

And yet the N54 in the 35i and 35is gets very little criticism despite them being one of the most expensive engines when they go wrong. And they go wrong with multiple expensive things.

I have said it before (many times) and will say it again, there are millions of N20 engines in the world today (probably nearly as many as the 2 litre BMW diesel). Many will have 150k miles by now (they replaced them with the B48 in 2015). If they all needed new camchains at 70k miles I think it would have been headline news by now.

My neighbour has a 2013 F30 with the N20 engine. It has 135k miles and he has no idea what a camchain is, let alone whether he should get it replaced for 'peace of mind'.

And if we are extolling the virtues of the 'bulletproof' N52, let's not forget the oil filter housing and cam cover oil leaks, which are much more common than a camchain issue on the N20 (probably).
 
Pondrew said:
Silverstar said:
As for the N20 18i to 28i the timing chain issue is there and many are affected, budget £1000 or so to replace the chain if the car you are looking at hasn’t had it done.
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OK, they are. But on forums like this it has become such 'folklore' that it is affecting resale values of the N20. I visit many BMW forums and people are 'scared' of the N20. it's ridiculous.

And yet the N54 in the 35i and 35is gets very little criticism despite them being one of the most expensive engines when they go wrong. And they go wrong with multiple expensive things.

I have said it before (many times) and will say it again, there are millions of N20 engines in the world today (probably nearly as many as the 2 litre BMW diesel). Many will have 150k miles by now (they replaced them with the B48 in 2015). If they all needed new camchains at 70k miles I think it would have been headline news by now.

My neighbour has a 2013 F30 with the N20 engine. It has 135k miles and he has no idea what a camchain is, let alone whether he should get it replaced for 'peace of mind'.

And if we are extolling the virtues of the 'bulletproof' N52, let's not forget the oil filter housing and cam cover oil leaks, which is much more common than a camchain issue on the N20.
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Not disputing what you say about the N54 but the issue of the timing chain on the N20 is well known and many many cars are affected so it would be prudent to budget for its replacement if you intend buying one the same way as it would be prudent to budget for the expenses that an N54 might bring. As for the N52 this is widely known to be a bullet proof engine with no common major / expensive issues and the most reliable of all drivetrain options in the E89 Z4. Sure gaskets will need replacing as they do in all BMWs but this isn’t a major cost.
 
Beerman said:
Five-O said:
I guess it depends what you want to do with the car whether an s23i is OK or not.
For me I only wanted a run around and my s23i turned out cheaper than getting something like a fiesta at the time. It's still 200 bhp and fitting a £30 throttle controller will completely transform how it drives.
Click to expand...

What is the throttle controller you are talking about?
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Something like this. It won't give you any extra power but the car will feel far more lively.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/355288536162?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=litjhqvlqru&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=UUDA5pSeTmG&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
 
That is a nice private sale 30i come up on AutoTrader today. The seller wants £10,950 for a 60 plate.

CAP only value it at £7500-8000 for a private sale.

I like it, but that is too much of a premium. It will be interesting to see if it sells.
 
Beerman said:
That is a nice private sale 30i come up on AutoTrader today. The seller wants £10,950 for a 60 plate.

CAP only value it at £7500-8000 for a private sale.

I like it, but that is too much of a premium. It will be interesting to see if it sells.
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If the 30i is popular, which it seems to be, the prices will stay high.
Lots of people do come on the forum looking for a 30i, so presuming it is very popular. Could be because of all the scaremongering regarding the N20. :?

I agree that £11k is too much for a 14 year old N52 engined car but looking at the prices of others it isn't abnormal. Low mileage that one, too, which makes a HUGE difference in asking prices these days.
 
Ole gits rule said:
I say buy Jamesuks 35iS and have done with it

https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=143412&p=2071854#p2071854
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Very good shout that Seamus! :thumbsup:

Two grand more than an 'average' 30i for a 'top of the range' 35is which does seem to be very good.

The N54 engine (although not without it's potential issues) is a monster. DCT gearbox too. All very fancy stuff. :D
 
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