NHS Covid App

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Flyingfifer said:
Yep, I'm very much bored of the cyclical nature of this argument, broke my own rule, don't waste time trying to rationalise with a zealot.
At every single turn bad faith arguments and pathetic jibes have been thrown at genuine attempts to provide actual real world facts and statistics, which in itself has been almost entirely following from only one side of the argument.

"The vaccine is the answer! Its the holy grail, the only thing that will save us all!!!"
88% vaccination rate yet cases were spiking again... "time for a lockdown! Its the only way to stop the spread! Lockdowns will save us all!!!"

Roll on the British 1st vaccine Reich, no freedom till we eradicate not only death, but the chance of death. :thumbsup:

"so this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause"
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You’re the king of pathetic jibes.
No one is saying the current vaccine will do the job, it’s a stop gap until a long term one is available, you’d know that if you weren’t so hell bent on ridiculing it.

You don’t care about others, not the NHS or your fellow man, only yourself.
 
I think you are arguing against the wrong thing… most people are not saying anything of the following:

- that the vaccine prevents spreading (although if someone is heavily symptomatic and coughing a lot it can’t help!)
- that vaccinated people are at risk from unvaccinated people

The fact is that if you are vaccinated you are at lesser risk of death or serious illness than if you are not, regardless of age.

I don’t think anyone on here is stating the vaccine is 100% effective, so no need to keep staying that… but there are more and more anti-vaxxers appearing in ICU’s across the country that are taking up valuable space…. And that is a concern.
 
Flyingfifer said:
I've never said the vaccine doesnt work, quite the opposite in fact :headbang:

My only argument has been that I and everyone else should be allowed to make their own personal choice without interference from the state or high horse judgements from the vaccine zealots. I have argued against people claiming that the vaccine is absolutely without a doubt 100% completely guaranteed safe and the only way to beat the virus because what they are spreading is utter fiction.

It stated off as what I thought was ignorance of the facts and an over reliance on the MSM but that has diminished now to either a clear and wilful refusal to accept demonstrable facts or complete moronicism.
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I’ve not seen read anything about 100% safe guarantees on here, most accept there’s an extremely low risk of a reaction but accept that willingly because the benefits massively outweigh the risks.
We also have to accept high horse judgments from the anti vaxer zealots and the utter nonsense they tend to peddle trying to sensationalise somebody getting a headache or feeling tired after receiving the vaccine as though it somehow makes their stance a wise one.
Rob
 
Goodness me, guys.

I decided to take a break from this forum 6 months ago because of the jab thread. I found it unbearable seeing such a waste of certain people's time. Not just the time spent reading posts, writing posts, constant refreshing waiting for the response, etc on that thread but also the time that must have been spent in various corners of the web 'researching' to prove one's next point.

I come back and it's like groundhog day in here.

Oh well, off I pop again, see you all in another 6 months. :D

P.S. isn't your Z4 something far more worthy of your time than pointless bickering on here? :driving:

P.P.S. sp3ctre, if you read this, can a member block a thread or even an entire folder (e.g. general discussion) from appearing in their 'new posts'? I'd like to just ignore this stuff, but it's hard when it's always near the top of my new posts (which I effectively use as my Z4-forum homepage, and imagine a lot of others do to).
 
JamieZ4C said:
P.P.S. sp3ctre, if you read this, can a member block a thread or even an entire folder (e.g. general discussion) from appearing in their 'new posts'? I'd like to just ignore this stuff, but it's hard when it's always near the top of my new posts (which I effectively use as my Z4-forum homepage, and imagine a lot of others do to).
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Unfortunately not… you can block people but not topics.
 
Below is the risk profile if anyone is interested. Both pre and post vaccination (assuming that these vaccinations don't have a shelf life- it is looking like there is a possibility that they are going to have to be "topped" up after 6 months or so).

Call me a 35 year old man (slightly older)- my risk is between 0.01 and 0.001 (the reality is it's lower than that because I don't have an co-morbidities, I am not over weight, on any medication, I don't smoke and have a healthy immune system). There is a further arguments to suggest that many of the people that have died within 28 days of a covid test didn't die of covid but had covid when they died of something else. But lets just call it 0.01. for arguments sake.

A free thinker would look at that risk and then take a look at the risk posed (both known and unknown) from the covid vaccination and make his/her decision based on that.

Many of my friends have only just had their 1st jab (so they are not by definition "vaccinated") so I can only really base my calculations on the older generations thus far and the very short term effects of the vaccine on them.

Yellow card nor VAERS look very appealing in the short term. Who know's what the long terms effects (there could be none) may be.

OK, decision is not really in favour based on the above.

But what has happened so far in the pandemic? I have mates who have been injected with double AZ who are now at twice the risk of blood clotting than they are are Covid. AZ and JJ are now banned totally or for under 4 year olds (my mate lived with a vulnerable parent so go his shots ahead of everyone else. If we didn't know of the side effects of the above, what other little "surprises" are in store further down the line for us to find.

Hey it's a global pandemic and I should trust Pharma, government and media right?
https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/pfizer
https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/johnson-and-johnson

Pfizer have engaging in illegal and corrupt marketing practices, bribing physicians and suppressing adverse trial results and had to pay $2.3 billion in one sitting for their efforts in recent history. I personally wouldn't trust them- but it's ok, if they are wrong they will be held accountable? Right? Nope- You can’t sue Pfizer or Moderna if you have severe Covid vaccine side effects- they have blanket immunity.

Look, I don't think I am going to change anyone's mind about thinking I am a bad person for not taking it. But at least see that everything mentioned above is true and see why I am very hesitant in taking this shot.

I think it's wonderful for old people. The risk reward is there for you. It's just not for the young and they should be able to make a decision and not be forced into it.
 

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I had a conversation with my previous next door neighbour at the weekend. She is a Sister at the nearest big City hospital.

She said that the vast majority of their Covid patients are unvaccinated individuals, which actually surprised me as this is not the picture from the headlines anymore (or the countless graphs and sources that some like to link to on here).
She also said that they were starting to gear up ICU beds for children, which is more of a worry.

So now my wife and I are safer as we've been vaccinated, I can start worrying about my 15 year old who cannot be vaccinated at present (and yes we have looked into it as she cannot travel to Malta to visit her grandparents or cousins without a vaccine).
 
I’m also told this by a Matron we know who works at a local major hospital - she told me admissions are roughly doubling each day.
 
Pondrew said:
I can start worrying about my 15 year old who cannot be vaccinated at present (and yes we have looked into it as she cannot travel to Malta to visit her grandparents or cousins without a vaccine).
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I wouldn't worry about her to much mate. The death rate for Children is 2 per million and I believe that most of the 25 kids in that bracket were of the 0-1 age and there are alot of complications at the young age.

The common cold is more of a killer to your 15 year old- 188 kids died of flu in 2019-2020 and 25 have died of Covid since March 2020.
 

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ronk said:
I doubt very much that you would be so blasé about the deaths if they were your children!
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Stop being a silly old chap Ronk. You are so wound up in all this fear porn that you literally can't see the wood from the tree's.

It goes without saying that any loss of life is tragic. But that still doesn't deflect from the fact that Mr Pondrew's kid is more at risk of the flu than she is of Covid.

I would personally take comfort if someone said that to me concerning the children in my family. Even if I didn't believe them I would take it as a basis for doing some research.
 
It’s not me being silly fella!
There’s not many on this post who seem to agree with your opinion on the subject.

Wound up? - I’m not the one with 50% of his posts on the subject!

Fear porn? Bollox!

Talk to medical staff about the loss of life - especially children before you make comment - low percentages or not - the loss is often very very upsetting for them.
 
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