Newbie - Z4 or SLK or Cayman ?

[tomscott]

I like the looks of the E89 but the drive and the engines just don't do it for me. The coupe convertible folding hard top is brilliant, best of both worlds bar a targa style.

If they had made the car a bit more of a drivers machine it would have been received much better, then if they had added some pedigree with a Z4M model it would have given the model more structure. This gives buyers more of a hierarchy in terms of upgrade and a reason to chop in for the next model. The 35i and is, apart from engine, the car being noticeably quicker and twin pipes bare no difference in terms of what you get when you buy, its the same recipe. Go from a 3.0is to an M an you get not only the visual upgrades but the finishing touches you get with the M models as well as the overall feeling of the car, it feels raw the overall experience is what you buy, the numbers may not be that different but the way the cars feels, sounds and the finishing touches make it a great experience!

This IMO is what is lacking in the E89, a focused car so that people who like sports cars have the option, rather than people who like cars that are more cruisers and more comfort.

The Cayman will always be a better PURIST drivers car, but the lairy raw attitude of the Ms is why people like them and unless you go up to a GT3 this doesn't exist in the porsche world. Unfortunately this market is niche… and BMW know this and the Z4M coupe in all fairness was a complete flop, its chassis wasn't one of BMWs finest when it came out and was slated but now with a few mods is becoming a cult classic, and a very special car.

I feel BMW are starting to loose their way, the new M3 and M4 are good examples, fantastic cars but they don't have that quality the purist M lovers are used to, that and EU laws with efficiency. stuck between a rock and a hard place. Currently BMW offer nothing I want to really buy… The 235i lovely car and the M2 looks like it will be a beast, the M3 or M4 as described above. Thats it really and the reason I won't buy one is because I don't like the way they sound, I don't like the turbos and they feel more disconnected from the driver experience. Plus non of them are really sports cars in the purist form. So for me Porsche is the next step.

Theres a reason all the classic BMWs are rising in value and the S54 is the last of those as IMO as much as I like the E92 M3, I think it was a stonking car but compared to the E46 it was heavier, bigger and not as direct to drive! The E46 was like a go kart. The S65 was completely wasted only being used in one model and if BMW had made the V8 e89 it would have been a very sort after car and we would be having a different conversation right now.

 

[Stug]

Maybe you would be better posting that "fact " on a Mercedes forum!

Ha ha Fair point..but I like you guys
I still think the E86 is one of the most beautiful looking cars out there and if it hadn't been for my accident I would never have sold mine.
But the E89... :thumbsdown:

You'll have to explain to me why I shouldn't like my E89 even though I admit it's a really bad car..

Hey I am not saying that 'you' shouldn't like it. Ugly girls need love too, right? :wink:

 

[ronk]

I should say that my E89 gets unsolicited positive comments from a wide range of people - I didn't get those comments re my old E85.

You can't honestly say its an ugly car ?

 

[Squiddie]

I would agree Ronk, these cars would be a dream for alot of people however I'm amazed sometimes what the younger generation can afford which I think is called easy finance that just wasn't available on cars when I was in my early twenties.

Tim.

Here in the US it is housing cost. If you live in an expensive area and at the same time somehow evade rent or mortgage (e.g. willing to live with parents when you are an adult) you suddenly have plenty of money for a car lease or loan. And lease rates on Z4s are sometimes very good.

 

[Squiddie]

I like the looks of the E89 but the drive and the engines just don't do it for me. The coupe convertible folding hard top is brilliant, best of both worlds bar a targa style.

If they had made the car a bit more of a drivers machine it would have been received much better, then if they had added some pedigree with a Z4M model it would have given the model more structure. This gives buyers more of a hierarchy in terms of upgrade and a reason to chop in for the next model. The 35i and is, apart from engine, the car being noticeably quicker and twin pipes bare no difference in terms of what you get when you buy, its the same recipe. Go from a 3.0is to an M an you get not only the visual upgrades but the finishing touches you get with the M models as well as the overall feeling of the car, it feels raw the overall experience is what you buy, the numbers may not be that different but the way the cars feels, sounds and the finishing touches make it a great experience!

This IMO is what is lacking in the E89, a focused car so that people who like sports cars have the option, rather than people who like cars that are more cruisers and more comfort.

The Cayman will always be a better PURIST drivers car, but the lairy raw attitude of the Ms is why people like them and unless you go up to a GT3 this doesn't exist in the porsche world. Unfortunately this market is niche… and BMW know this and the Z4M coupe in all fairness was a complete flop, its chassis wasn't one of BMWs finest when it came out and was slated but now with a few mods is becoming a cult classic, and a very special car.

I feel BMW are starting to loose their way, the new M3 and M4 are good examples, fantastic cars but they don't have that quality the purist M lovers are used to, that and EU laws with efficiency. stuck between a rock and a hard place. Currently BMW offer nothing I want to really buy… The 235i lovely car and the M2 looks like it will be a beast, the M3 or M4 as described above. Thats it really and the reason I won't buy one is because I don't like the way they sound, I don't like the turbos and they feel more disconnected from the driver experience. Plus non of them are really sports cars in the purist form. So for me Porsche is the next step.

Theres a reason all the classic BMWs are rising in value and the S54 is the last of those as IMO as much as I like the E92 M3, I think it was a stonking car but compared to the E46 it was heavier, bigger and not as direct to drive! The E46 was like a go kart. The S65 was completely wasted only being used in one model and if BMW had made the V8 e89 it would have been a very sort after car and we would be having a different conversation right now.

Good post on all points, replying to bold section.

This is part of the IMHO excessively off-target convertible strategy of BMW right now. The e89 has the humongous hood, not to mention is a roomy GT in the first place. But they don't have a v8 to place it it, because the N63 is also turbocharged and will probably run into heat problems. They don't have a naturally aspired v8 left.

Mercedes on the other hand treats the arguably more successful current SLK differently. A v8 is available. That attracts buyers even if they end up picking a smaller engine. And Mercedes is willing to go through the trouble of keeping a NA v8 engine alive just for that model. Buyers reward this kind of commitment . Not just slk55 buyers. SLK buyers. Mercedes buyers.

What BMW would need for the e89 is better steering (the rack from the F80?), get rid of the runflats and instead of turbo we would need individual throttle bodies, and a manual gearbox. The s65 in the e89 would have been wonderful, and I think a slimmed down version in power and weight but keeping the individual throttle bodies would have made for a wonderful car.

 

[TitanTim]

I don't think sticking a V8, improving steering and chassis on the E89 will suddenly increase sales. The M Market is a fairly niche one and there will always be a small % of buyers but it will be interesting to see how the more performance orientated models fare over the next 10 years and how much these cars cope with the demand for increased fuel efficiency and less emissions. The market is changing towards more family orientated models and front wheel drive. The next 1 Series will lose rear wheel drive and so the demise of the M135i which will be a great shame but then BMWs own market research shows your average BMW owner thinks their car is front wheel drive so hardly surprising the push for more front wheel drive models

The new 3 Series LCI is now being fitted with 3cyl engines so how long before the M model range shrinks and gives way to what your average Joe public wants.

Tim.

 

[Stug]

I should say that my E89 gets unsolicited positive comments from a wide range of people - I didn't get those comments re my old E85.

You can't honestly say its an ugly car ?

No of course not. I am obviously just having a little fun teasing E89 owners. I simply prefer the new SLK. I test drove both cars back to back and felt there was a large gap between the two. If I hated how the E89 looked I wouldn't have had it in my final 3 cars.

 

[R.E92]

Any car with the N54 engine will have problems. So in the Z4 you would want to avoid the 35i/is.

I have had plenty of things replaced under warranty on mine. But for me the power makes up for the faults.

If you like the Z4 then I think the Z4 3.0 would be the way to go for reliability.

 

[ronk]

Any car with the N54 engine will have problems. So in the Z4 you would want to avoid the 35i/is.

I have had plenty of things replaced under warranty on mine. But for me the power makes up for the faults.

If you like the Z4 then I think the Z4 3.0 would be the way to go for reliability.

That's pleasing to hear as I've got a 3.0l is that the N52?
What goes wrong with the N54?

 

[R.E92]

Any car with the N54 engine will have problems. So in the Z4 you would want to avoid the 35i/is.

I have had plenty of things replaced under warranty on mine. But for me the power makes up for the faults.

If you like the Z4 then I think the Z4 3.0 would be the way to go for reliability.

That's pleasing to hear as I've got a 3.0l is that the N52?
What goes wrong with the N54?

Injectors, both fuel pumps and turbo wastegates are all seriously common failures. I haven't heard of a single N54 out there on its original HPFP. Some people are on number 3 or 4!

So far I have had the HPFP, LPFP and 6 injectors replaced.

They revised several parts in the last couple of years and they all seem to be holding better than what they replaced but anything more than two years old will likely still have the old fuel pumps and injectors.

The N54 engine is actually a good block, just the fuelling components in their original design are junk. They can hold big power and are a tuners dream, especially the 2007/2008 engines from the 3 series that have forged internals. The N54 in the Z4 has been found to have a stronger fuel delivery system (slight differences in the low pressure fuel side of things) so tuning to big power using high ethanol mixtures is easier than the other cars which require an upgraded LPFP.

If you aren't crazy about power and modding then the N52 saves you lots of headaches. Still has a good amount of pace and makes a great noise.

 

[imported]

"You can't judge how good a car is by sales figures"? Ha ha really? So two equally priced cars aimed at the same segment of buyers, one is selling very well while one isnt, has nothing to do with one being a better product? You are using some very strange logic. I am in the lucky position of being able to buy either car new and out-right so super low finance deals were not a factor in my choice of car. The mercedes was a better car than the BMW. Fact..

Have you also got an i-Phone

Having a good product and having a product that makes money aren't necessarily the same thing. If you look at the best selling product of any industry I can guarantee that it isn't the best, actually when was the last time you saw the 'best' product making the most money?

E89 is impractical, has bad boot space (not much with the roof up, and is basically inaccessible with the roof down), relatively inefficient with fuel, has limited front visibility (the front shade/mirror flappers are really just for show), no spare wheel, brushed trim scratches very easily and of course only has 2 seats despite being larger than many 4/5-seater hatchbacks. There are probably a few other reasons why it will never be a big seller, but for me the car is absolutely perfect and it was an easy decision; hands down better than an SLK. Obviously I appreciate that others have different opinions, which is why there are so many different cars on the road — but to me SLK will always be associated with the blonde from Clueless.

Good guess, I have an iPhone 6 plus but thats an exception. Is it the best selling phone?

Also for a Z4 forum I can't believe there is so much E89 hate.

 

[Stug]

"You can't judge how good a car is by sales figures"? Ha ha really? So two equally priced cars aimed at the same segment of buyers, one is selling very well while one isnt, has nothing to do with one being a better product? You are using some very strange logic. I am in the lucky position of being able to buy either car new and out-right so super low finance deals were not a factor in my choice of car. The mercedes was a better car than the BMW. Fact..

Have you also got an i-Phone

blah blah blah....

Also for a Z4 forum I can't believe there is so much E89 hate.

That's mainly down to the E89 sucking arse...

 

[Z4M-2006]

blah blah blah....

Also for a Z4 forum I can't believe there is so much E89 hate.

[/quote]

That's mainly down to the E89 sucking arse... [/quote]

 

[imported]

I'm very cynical about people who appear to have lots of things and people perceive them as affluent but don't look at what debt may lay behind it

There is nothing wrong with finance, at the end of the day having debt that is for an asset means that you have assets that you are eventually going to pay off and is also taking advantage of a debt-driven economy. Now if you're talking about credit card debt from worthless junk then I'd agree with you on that.

 

[imported]

That's mainly down to the E89 sucking arse...

You're like a guy in a speedboat saying that the luxury cruise liner next to him is too slow.

 

[Simon20VT]

Went to look at both the SLK and Z4 when deciding what to get. Was initially more interested in the SLK, maybe as it was a newer model and more aggressive looking than the predecessor. There were also unbelievably good lease deals on then too. Found the Z4 nicer to drive and was also a bit cheaper. As time has gone on I've gone of the SLK's looks. It just looks to me now like a squashed stumpy SL, a car I do prefer the look of more. The one I drive seemed to have dead steering and wasn't keen on the auto transmission. Most annoying thing was his the pedals are offset to the right do you sit skewed while driving. Once I'd noticed that I couldn't stop being annoyed by it. Can see the point that it feels more modern and premium inside though. Thought the amg seats looked a lot better than the Zed plus the materials felt a lot more premium. Also had a screen as standard with a plug in sat nav. One of my biggest gripes with the zed is that they didn't just stuck in a basic I drive as standard and leave all the other stuff on it as options when they face lifted it. Would have modernised the interior and draw. It inline with the rest of their range and the SLK.

 

[imported]

Went to look at both the SLK and Z4 when deciding what to get. Was initially more interested in the SLK, maybe as it was a newer model and more aggressive looking than the predecessor. There were also unbelievably good lease deals on then too. Found the Z4 nicer to drive and was also a bit cheaper. As time has gone on I've gone of the SLK's looks. It just looks to me now like a squashed stumpy SL, a car I do prefer the look of more. The one I drive seemed to have dead steering and wasn't keen on the auto transmission. Most annoying thing was his the pedals are offset to the right do you sit skewed while driving. Once I'd noticed that I couldn't stop being annoyed by it. Can see the point that it feels more modern and premium inside though. Thought the amg seats looked a lot better than the Zed plus the materials felt a lot more premium. Also had a screen as standard with a plug in sat nav. One of my biggest gripes with the zed is that they didn't just stuck in a basic I drive as standard and leave all the other stuff on it as options when they face lifted it. Would have modernised the interior and draw. It inline with the rest of their range and the SLK.

You might be right about the materials, on my e89 I have some stripe marks on the red leather seats from wearing a messenger bag while driving. Actually I was surprised how quickly it happened and I only noticed when it was already too late. Obviously I've stopped the habit, but unfortunately even the Swissvax cleaner & milk hasn't done jack s**t to the marks. Also the aluminium trim scratches very easily, I dropped my house keys only at like 6 inches height and it's made a noticeable scratch that I know will never go away because the aluminium has a plastic laminate coating. However, all in all it's pretty good for a car for it's £20k+ price range.

The car that solves all the problems of all three models would be the Jaguar F-Type convertible, now that's my dream car.

 

[Bing]

Funny, I've seen a lot of SLKs over the last week, probably 10-15. Common as muck. I am also not a fan of the square pug look at all. And - despite the gorgeous weather - I think 2 or 3 max had their roofs down. Totally doing it wrong. Just my tuppence-worth

 

[Nictrix]

Went to look at both the SLK and Z4 when deciding what to get. Was initially more interested in the SLK, maybe as it was a newer model and more aggressive looking than the predecessor. There were also unbelievably good lease deals on then too. Found the Z4 nicer to drive and was also a bit cheaper. As time has gone on I've gone of the SLK's looks. It just looks to me now like a squashed stumpy SL, a car I do prefer the look of more. The one I drive seemed to have dead steering and wasn't keen on the auto transmission. Most annoying thing was his the pedals are offset to the right do you sit skewed while driving. Once I'd noticed that I couldn't stop being annoyed by it. Can see the point that it feels more modern and premium inside though. Thought the amg seats looked a lot better than the Zed plus the materials felt a lot more premium. Also had a screen as standard with a plug in sat nav. One of my biggest gripes with the zed is that they didn't just stuck in a basic I drive as standard and leave all the other stuff on it as options when they face lifted it. Would have modernised the interior and draw. It inline with the rest of their range and the SLK.

You might be right about the materials, on my e89 I have some stripe marks on the red leather seats from wearing a messenger bag while driving. Actually I was surprised how quickly it happened and I only noticed when it was already too late. Obviously I've stopped the habit, but unfortunately even the Swissvax cleaner & milk hasn't done jack s**t to the marks. Also the aluminium trim scratches very easily, I dropped my house keys only at like 6 inches height and it's made a noticeable scratch that I know will never go away because the aluminium has a plastic laminate coating. However, all in all it's pretty good for a car for it's £20k+ price range.

The car that solves all the problems of all three models would be the Jaguar F-Type convertible, now that's my dream car.

Is there anything else you want to disclose??
You drive a white convertable, stay with your parents and carry a manbag.
Are you a nail technician too?
The comment you made earlier about lazy f**ks and buying any car you want, why didnt you just buy an F type then?

 

[Bing]

Who wears their bag whilst driving ?? Messenger bags aren't exactly small. That's a bit weird, and probably wasn't a consideration of the BMW designers when choosing materials... And keys are heavy. I bet if you dropped them on the metal trim in an SLK other car you'd more likely as not leave a mark. Perhaps it would Help if you were taking more care in the way you use expensive possessions...