Newbie - Z4 or SLK or Cayman ?
- Thread starter Guitarman
- Start date
Also - not 'everyone can afford these cars'
I think the rough rule for car purchase is 20% salary, or up to 50% salary for an enthusiast, a brief look at UK average salaries suggests that most cant, or most that do - use some sort of finance. i'd happily spend 50% salary on a car, but I'd be concerned about spending 20% of salary via car finance.
With borrowing, I think it comes down to some sort of equation around 'if something goes wrong, can i afford to fix my situation before i go bankrupt', and not 'i worked hard after uni'. Remember, there will be examples of uni/no uni, worked harder, worked less hard, earnt more than you, earnt less than you etc. A decent barman will work hard, doesn't mean he can afford a car equal to his salary. So as someone said, it could be quite easy to offend someone by belittling purchase of what is a reasonably high end sportscar.
I think the rough rule for car purchase is 20% salary, or up to 50% salary for an enthusiast, a brief look at UK average salaries suggests that most cant, or most that do - use some sort of finance. i'd happily spend 50% salary on a car, but I'd be concerned about spending 20% of salary via car finance.
With borrowing, I think it comes down to some sort of equation around 'if something goes wrong, can i afford to fix my situation before i go bankrupt', and not 'i worked hard after uni'. Remember, there will be examples of uni/no uni, worked harder, worked less hard, earnt more than you, earnt less than you etc. A decent barman will work hard, doesn't mean he can afford a car equal to his salary. So as someone said, it could be quite easy to offend someone by belittling purchase of what is a reasonably high end sportscar.
I think that it depends on you age and upbringing..
I was told by my parents that if I can't go and buy it, then I can't afford it. I could afford it when I have saved the money to buy it..
Each to there own of course, but buying a 40k car on monthly payments is like some kind of financial torture..
R.E92..
Both cars do a daily commute in stop start traffic from cold so really the worse scenario..
The M coupe did 19 mpg in these conditions , the 35is seems to be around 23mpg over the 3 weeks I have had it.
I was told by my parents that if I can't go and buy it, then I can't afford it. I could afford it when I have saved the money to buy it..
Each to there own of course, but buying a 40k car on monthly payments is like some kind of financial torture..
R.E92..
Both cars do a daily commute in stop start traffic from cold so really the worse scenario..
The M coupe did 19 mpg in these conditions , the 35is seems to be around 23mpg over the 3 weeks I have had it.
I'm the opposite I just couldn't buy a car outright with cash, probably the worst thing you could do. Much better to invest it more wisely. For me a PCP is a smarter way to get you in a new car on a regular basis on a fixed monthly sum. I tend to seek out models which are on special deals at the time with a high dealer and manufacturer deposit contribution which gets you into a higher specced model. It's just a wiser way of paying for a high value item.
Tim.
Tim.
I would love to buy a brand new car but Im not that rich or stupid (no offense intended to anybody).
Let someone else take the hit on buying it and then get one a couple of years old. Until a car has thousands and thousands of mile on it it is still new and will possibly have all the niggles fixed.
Let someone else take the hit on buying it and then get one a couple of years old. Until a car has thousands and thousands of mile on it it is still new and will possibly have all the niggles fixed.
No point dying rich.
If you can't afford a £40k outlay, or you have invested your savings, what's wrong with monthly payments that you can afford, especially when interest rates are so low?
I'd rather have a monthly amount I'm happy with and drive a new car with hassle free motering than save my hard earned up for an older car that would cost me fo fix it should anything go wrong.
If you can't afford a £40k outlay, or you have invested your savings, what's wrong with monthly payments that you can afford, especially when interest rates are so low?
I'd rather have a monthly amount I'm happy with and drive a new car with hassle free motering than save my hard earned up for an older car that would cost me fo fix it should anything go wrong.
TitanTim said:
This. Absolutely. I feel this is even more appropriate for expensive cars. I would hate to have ten's of thousands of my savings tied up in something that is rapidly depreciating.
Yes you never own the car outright with this approach but you can essentially pick a monthly budget for cars and stick to it, viewing it as a monthly expense and you can get into a new (or new-ish) car every couple of years. Also you are 'less' likely to face lots of maintenance bills with new cars/car's still in warranty.
Playing devils advocate a bit, but why is it acceptable to purchase a house by borrowing money and paying monthly but not a car? Ok, so housing tends to increase in price rather than depreciate, but at the end of the day you're effectively doing the same thing (paying monthly at the expense of captial).
As you say, each to their own - whatever works for an induvidual
As you say, each to their own - whatever works for an induvidual
See I can't understand that ...
I would save up and when I had the money I would buy it..I could wait, I wouldn't need it NOW!!
That said I would never buy a new car if that's what you mean?
To buy something for 40k and lose 40% of its value over a few years seems crazy to me,just to say I've got a new car?
To pay for finance ,and to get walloped for depreciation for the Sake of a car seems like getting kicked in both bollocks at the same time.
I would save up and when I had the money I would buy it..I could wait, I wouldn't need it NOW!!
That said I would never buy a new car if that's what you mean?
To buy something for 40k and lose 40% of its value over a few years seems crazy to me,just to say I've got a new car?
To pay for finance ,and to get walloped for depreciation for the Sake of a car seems like getting kicked in both bollocks at the same time.
Z4M-2006 said:
If you worried about depreciation then you wouldn't buy anything in life and its just something you have to stomach whether a car, TV, washing machine but there are ways of minimising depreciation on a car when buying new.
I take Lux's view, you can't take money with you once you've gone and as a new motor can give pleasure in life and you can afford it why settle for someones hand me down. I've had plenty of second hand cars in the past and as I'm pretty anal about condition etc I've never been 100% happy with a used buy. People simply don't look after cars these days. I tend to save a small deposit, keep the monthly payments reasonable and change for new on a regular basis knowing any probs that do crop up I don't have to worry about the expense etc.
The only other way I would do it is buy a really cheap new car and keep for 20 years so your maximising value for money but then ownership would become pretty boring, my Z3 being the exception
Tim.
Z4M-2006 said:
I completely agree with you.
Every car I've ever had I have paid for in cash. It's mine to do with what I like and I like the feeling of truly owning something.
I would buy a house with cash if it was even remotely possible. Being in a mortgaged house is no better than renting to me but it's a necessary evil. I think the way I feel about ownership stems from family tradition where due to inheritance most are comfortable enough not to worry about credit.
I think mortgages are slightly different, you need somewhere to live, you don't NEED a 40,50,70,100k car.. (well, sometimes i'm convinced that GT3 has my name on it..). And mortgage is preferable to renting, as its such a huge amount of money, and the resulting ownership of an asset that isn't depreciating (like a car would) is preferable to spending the same on someone ELSES mortgage.
WRT cars - i can understand both sides, i've ALWAYS been of the mindset that ownership is better - in the end you actually have something tangible for your outlay, vs essentially paying depreciation for someone else's later benefit.
I also understand the concept of having spare monthly income, and not huge lump sums to spend on things.. however with PCP etc, the one thing i dont grasp is that you're basically spending (lets say a 100k car) 30k over 3 years to then hand it back, and have nothing to show for your 30k except the period spent driving it. Upsides being newer, hopefully problems covered by warantee etc..
On the other hand, if you can save half the car, finance the second half and buy it a few years older .. say 60-70k car .. whilst yes you're financing some of it, but you have equity in the asset that is later (and really.. at any time for an emergency..) worth something you can reclaim if you wish.
These days - unless you have a job for life, i think people should be careful with long term finance, i personally like knowing i have an out option should the worst happen.
there is obviously some equation that compares the depreciation of an asset against the cost of the pcp etc, and obviously on new cars thats always basically going to be the same thing .. however nobody buys new cars for cash. So you want to compare ~a few years old car, against the PCP on the new equivalent. If depreciation is pretty bad, and you can PCP on a new vehicle for less.. i dont see what's wrong with PCP if you can afford it.
Time to go browse some PCP deals on brand new supercars...
WRT cars - i can understand both sides, i've ALWAYS been of the mindset that ownership is better - in the end you actually have something tangible for your outlay, vs essentially paying depreciation for someone else's later benefit.
I also understand the concept of having spare monthly income, and not huge lump sums to spend on things.. however with PCP etc, the one thing i dont grasp is that you're basically spending (lets say a 100k car) 30k over 3 years to then hand it back, and have nothing to show for your 30k except the period spent driving it. Upsides being newer, hopefully problems covered by warantee etc..
On the other hand, if you can save half the car, finance the second half and buy it a few years older .. say 60-70k car .. whilst yes you're financing some of it, but you have equity in the asset that is later (and really.. at any time for an emergency..) worth something you can reclaim if you wish.
These days - unless you have a job for life, i think people should be careful with long term finance, i personally like knowing i have an out option should the worst happen.
there is obviously some equation that compares the depreciation of an asset against the cost of the pcp etc, and obviously on new cars thats always basically going to be the same thing .. however nobody buys new cars for cash. So you want to compare ~a few years old car, against the PCP on the new equivalent. If depreciation is pretty bad, and you can PCP on a new vehicle for less.. i dont see what's wrong with PCP if you can afford it.
Time to go browse some PCP deals on brand new supercars...
So a £90k 991 911 C4S PCP deal lands you a £45k balloon payment, after £18k deposit + £1k/mo over 3 years. you're paying over £50k for 3 years of ownership.
Comparatively, private sale cars are ~£65k. If you bought at £90k new, you'd of paid £25k for your 3 years..
seems like a bum deal to me.
car sales: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=used-cars&M=1400&MaxPrice=125000&MileageFrom=15000&MileageTo=20000&MinPrice=11000&YearFrom=2012&YearTo=2015
finance example: http://www.porsche.com/uk/models/911/911-carrera-4s/finance/
Comparatively, private sale cars are ~£65k. If you bought at £90k new, you'd of paid £25k for your 3 years..
seems like a bum deal to me.
car sales: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=used-cars&M=1400&MaxPrice=125000&MileageFrom=15000&MileageTo=20000&MinPrice=11000&YearFrom=2012&YearTo=2015
finance example: http://www.porsche.com/uk/models/911/911-carrera-4s/finance/