N52 hesitation, stuttering, jerking, surging etc

[propaintballa]

UPDATE: i suffered with the jerky acceleration issues and recurring knock sensor fault codes ever since I bought my 2008 2.5i, as you will see in the post and some of my own I had tried all sorts but eventually gave up and just got used to clearing my fault codes whenever I didn’t want a lumpy acceleration. Anyway over winter and partly because I hadn’t driven it much because I’m shielding I decided to renew the battery, it turned out I had the original 2008 battery still fitted Now I have a brand spanking new Battery I have not had any issues with the acceleration or any fault codes at all since my only explanation was the battery dipped too low on start ups that it affected the knock sensor readings, throwing up a fault which the car then tried to compensate for. Very happy now, over two years of ownership and it drives better that ever now

Awesome, glad you managed to figure out your fault! Mine still persists. A couple of weeks ago was the first time I had thought about it in months. Part of me thinks the non OEM CCV replacement is the culprit due to the hunting I get when I open the oil cap with the engine running. The other part still thinks it could be to do with the MAF. But then that all goes out the window when I remember that things seemed to get better when I unplugged my pre-cat o2 sensors, lol! Still no codes.

I want to replace the car tbh.

 

[Naylz]

How old is your battery? The mad thing is I do remember reading some one actually saying a poor battery does weird things to a z4. I too had given up and had just accepted the issue. If it’s any consolation I smashed a control arm bush the other day on a pothole

 

[propaintballa]

How old is your battery? The mad thing is I do remember reading some one actually saying a poor battery does weird things to a z4. I too had given up and had just accepted the issue. If it’s any consolation I smashed a control arm bush the other day on a pothole

Yeah you're right. I remember checking the voltages though after it had sat and seemed fine. I'm not sure how old it is, but it is at least 3 years old, which is how long I have had the car. Guess I could change the battery then return it if it turns out not to be the issue :?

I can't believe yours was the original battery! That is pretty good going, if you exclude the issues it caused I suppose haha. Did you have any other issues related to the battery? Trouble starting or anything?

 

[rdm05z4]

Propaintballa- might try reaching out to new forum member BLP2 he mentions he is a BMW tech for xx years so he maybe able to give you some guidance.

 

[propaintballa]

Propaintballa- might try reaching out to new forum member BLP2 he mentions he is a BMW tech for xx years so he maybe able to give you some guidance.

I wouldn't dare to burden him with this! Haha. Seriously though, I am considering re-doing the CCV with OE parts, as I have always questioned it since replacing it with cheap parts. Either that, or just sell the car.

 

[Turner_e90]

Hi there, i’ve never used a forum before but i’ve read a few pages here and there on this thread as im having the same issues. I’ve recently supercharged my 330i even tho i have these issues and my tuner is thinking its the ccv. I have a febi bilstien ccv kit coming and when I replace that i’ll see if that fixes my issue and let you know. I’ve also already changed plugs, coils, battery, eccentric shaft sensor, changed small DISA valve as was throwing code (big one looks fine), cleaned vanos solenoids and check valves (i know not the best thing but) i will also be replacing my water pump and thermostat in the next few weeks. This is all because of these issues and my car was also down on power by 25bhp.

Thanks

 

[Thorttle01]

Hello Guys,
I have exactly same symptoms like Propaintballa wrote. Including hissing sound under car on right side, where exhaust mainfold is.
All values in INPA seems to be normal. No DTC at all.

I have:
- Jerky deceleration when rpm<2000. More significant when engine is cold. The car sometimes shakes like tyre would have defect.
- Surging at constant speed. I am fighting with gas pedal like crazy if i want maintain constant speed.
- Hissing sound under car. Can be hear only outside the car near front right wheel.
- Power/torque loss in whole rpm spectrum.
- Popp sound from exhaust after giving very little throttle. Deeper and louder exhaust tone when accelarating than before and lack of power.
- Light smell of exhaust gasses on hard acceleration but only when the window is open.


Checked both DISA units (outer was broken, but no change after replacement).
Replaced VANOS solenoids (i had DTC code for intake solenoid one year before) no change in behaviour, but the code vent away and never goes back.
Tested all coil packs and replaced spark plugs. (although never had missfire DTC)
Checked PCV system for leaks.
I do not have any O2/fuel mixture codes.
VANOS and VVT required/actual angles are correct.
Both cats checked for clogging with endoscope camera (they are loking good).

I am already searching for crack/ leak from exhaust mainfold....

Link with hissing sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKH5dLgTqTQ

Did you have some ideas?

Many thanks for your help!

 

[Thorttle01]

....My car is BMW e87 130i with N52B30AF engine.

 

[propaintballa]

Hello Guys,
I have exactly same symptoms like Propaintballa wrote. Including hissing sound under car on right side, where exhaust mainfold is.
All values in INPA seems to be normal. No DTC at all.

I have:
- Jerky deceleration when rpm<2000. More significant when engine is cold. The car sometimes shakes like tyre would have defect.
- Surging at constant speed. I am fighting with gas pedal like crazy if i want maintain constant speed.
- Hissing sound under car. Can be hear only outside the car near front right wheel.
- Power/torque loss in whole rpm spectrum.
- Popp sound from exhaust after giving very little throttle. Deeper and louder exhaust tone when accelarating than before and lack of power.
- Light smell of exhaust gasses on hard acceleration but only when the window is open.


Checked both DISA units (outer was broken, but no change after replacement).
Replaced VANOS solenoids (i had DTC code for intake solenoid one year before) no change in behaviour, but the code vent away and never goes back.
Tested all coil packs and replaced spark plugs. (although never had missfire DTC)
Checked PCV system for leaks.
I do not have any O2/fuel mixture codes.
VANOS and VVT required/actual angles are correct.
Both cats checked for clogging with endoscope camera (they are loking good).

I am already searching for crack/ leak from exhaust mainfold....

Link with hissing sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKH5dLgTqTQ

Did you have some ideas?

Many thanks for your help!

Interesting and infuriating. I was reading that thinking it sounds like clogged cats, but seems not. A few things...

• It could still the the CCV even though it is not leaking, it could just be diverting the crankcase gases incorrectly/not at all. What mileage is your car and has it ever been replaced? Generally speaking, I think they are past it by 100k

• Have you checked for oil in the eccentric shaft sensor connector? Blob connector on the top of the cam cover towards the front of the car

• Have you checked your fuel trims? I know you don't have any mixture codes but they could still be way out of whack without triggering

• Could also be MAF sensor

Hi there, i’ve never used a forum before but i’ve read a few pages here and there on this thread as im having the same issues. I’ve recently supercharged my 330i even tho i have these issues and my tuner is thinking its the ccv. I have a febi bilstien ccv kit coming and when I replace that i’ll see if that fixes my issue and let you know. I’ve also already changed plugs, coils, battery, eccentric shaft sensor, changed small DISA valve as was throwing code (big one looks fine), cleaned vanos solenoids and check valves (i know not the best thing but) i will also be replacing my water pump and thermostat in the next few weeks. This is all because of these issues and my car was also down on power by 25bhp.

Thanks

Did you have any luck with the CCV @Turner_E90

 

[Thorttle01]

Thank you for your reply and ideas!

My car have now 150k miles on the clock. I tested my CCV according this: https://bimmerprofs.com/crankcase-ventilation/ and my STFT does not change dramaticaly if I open oil cap, it takes a while to STFT starts to grow.

I have little oil around eccentric shaft sensor seal. Cleaning connector did not helped for me. New seal ordered and is on the way to me.
Did you think, that oil in connector or bad sensor can make these problems even if no MIL is triggered, errors not saved in ECU camshaft angle is like expected in INPA?

My short term fuel trims are little negative (rich) on both banks , so no expectation for vacuum leak or lean mixture.
STFT_B1=-0,5mg/stk
STFT_B2=-0,4mg/stk
LTFT_B1=+2,5%
LTFT_B2=+1,8%

My MAF was cleaned, but no change in behaviour were observed. Live data from MAF are looking good, but I think that the value is little bit low at idle. I have only 11kg/h at idle. Can someone share his airflow value at idle with same engine??

* My car behaves not constant in time... One day more surging and huge lack of torque / other day much better. But I can confirm
, that my car is down on power. In first situation, definitely not by 25bhp.... it feels like aroud 100bhp drop! My previous car was E36 with M52B28 engine (192bhp) and I had same or better acceleration and but mooooore torque!

I ordered exhaust back pressure gauge for cats testing. It should arrive soon, then lets see...

 

[Turner_e90]

@propaintballa

I have replaced my ccv and my god it has transformed my car! It feels soo much better to drive the power is nice and loose compared to before it felt like it struggled with it.

Car is almost perfect now however say i go for a drive, turn it off leave it for 5-30 mins (or more as thats all i’ve tested) turn it back on the revs still judder a little for like 5 seconds but not as bad. I have also swapped my vanos solenoids around which seemed to help with this to make the juddering minimal. So possible solenoid replacement but i think thats its tbh.

Only complaint now is that the torque low down until 4k rpm is pretty rubbish but i thinks that’s because the timing doesn’t advance until then, other then that, great!

 

[propaintballa]

@propaintballa

I have replaced my ccv and my god it has transformed my car! It feels soo much better to drive the power is nice and loose compared to before it felt like it struggled with it.

Car is almost perfect now however say i go for a drive, turn it off leave it for 5-30 mins (or more as thats all i’ve tested) turn it back on the revs still judder a little for like 5 seconds but not as bad. I have also swapped my vanos solenoids around which seemed to help with this to make the juddering minimal. So possible solenoid replacement but i think thats its tbh.

Only complaint now is that the torque low down until 4k rpm is pretty rubbish but i thinks that’s because the timing doesn’t advance until then, other then that, great!

Well that's great news, glad you managed to get it fixed! This makes me think even more now that I should replace my CCV again with better components.

As for your other slight judder, you might have a vacuum leak somewhere else? Have you checked the intake boot for spits?

 

[Turner_e90]

Well that's great news, glad you managed to get it fixed! This makes me think even more now that I should replace my CCV again with better components.

As for your other slight judder, you might have a vacuum leak somewhere else? Have you checked the intake boot for spits?

Thank you mate appreciate it

I replaced mine with a febi bilstein ccv so a good brand for bmw’s. Because my car is supercharged i didnt need the pipe that goes from the oil separator to the intake manifold as i have hosing that goes straight into the charger inlet. However the separator was full of gunk and fully clogged, i also changed the others pipes that was included in the kit.

Im not too sure about the slight judder still as because my car is charged all the intake hosing is new (only had supercharger for a month or 2 now) and i feel like everything is all secure and air tight by trying to pull everything off after i fitted it only other thing I haven’t replaced is vanos solenoids so could be that but dont know for certain.

I will be dynoing the car again soon to see how much more power its made and see if my tuner could check over things.

Thanks

 

[propaintballa]

Here we go again! Car passed its MOT so ordered the Febi CCV kit. Annoying, as mine is an early car I need a slightly different hose that connects the separator to the intake manifold. I should have done this to start with



The only other part that could be causing issues is my non OEM MAF... Fingers crossed the better quality CCV finally puts my issues to bed, but I am not holding my breath!

 

[colb]

Replace the non oem Maf, they are known to have issues, they rarely work or last long, been there done that with mine, oem Maf Bosche or Siemens brands, they work straight out of the box.

 

[propaintballa]

Replace the non oem Maf, they are known to have issues, they rarely work or last long, been there done that with mine, oem Maf Bosche or Siemens brands, they work straight out of the box.

So I replaced it with the non OEM part made by Hella, so wasn't a cheap knock off. When I replaced the original I did it as preventative maintenance. I still have the original and have swapped it back and forth over the years with no real difference. Admittedly the original could be duff as well, but certainly have no codes or anything. But yeah, most stuff I have replaced I did so with OEM parts, so not sure why I cut corners with these two components. As the age old adage goes, buy cheap, buy twice! After the CCV I will likely get a new MAF.

 

[Fadi-shamleh]

Hi my friend, do you solve your car problem? I have the same problem

 

[iiNNeX]

I recently upgraded my Bosch coilpacks to the new Delphi units BMW now recommends, along with NGK Iridium plugs. It make the car start and run smoother for sure, however I still have some odd idle issues for the first 20 seconds or so after starting the car from cold. That I am going to presume is the CCV which in my case (black top N52) requires new rocker cover as its embedded.

I would change plugs and coils and see if the issue is still there mate, its not that expensive in the long run and something worth doing regardless.

EDIT: Just realised I only read the first page of this thread which is a few years old now and have not caught up with the rest, my bad but my advice still stands in case you have not yet changed those components haha.

 

[propaintballa]

Completely forgot to update this. Fitted the 2nd CCV kit a couple of months ago with no change in behaviour sadly. Very frustrating indeed!

Hi my friend, do you solve your car problem? I have the same problem

Sadly not! I am not sure I ever will if I am honest!

I recently upgraded my Bosch coilpacks to the new Delphi units BMW now recommends, along with NGK Iridium plugs. It make the car start and run smoother for sure, however I still have some odd idle issues for the first 20 seconds or so after starting the car from cold. That I am going to presume is the CCV which in my case (black top N52) requires new rocker cover as its embedded.

I would change plugs and coils and see if the issue is still there mate, its not that expensive in the long run and something worth doing regardless.

EDIT: Just realised I only read the first page of this thread which is a few years old now and have not caught up with the rest, my bad but my advice still stands in case you have not yet changed those components haha.

Thanks for the input. This crossed my mind when I replaced the coils as I replaced them with Bosch coils, despite knowing about the updated Delphi part. I can't remember why, but I don't think I could get the Delphi coils at a reasonable price at the time. I am not convinced it would make any difference in my circumstance, but who knows! :lol: I think my next port of call is a new Siemens MAF. But at £130 or so, it's a lot to gamble on :/

 

[Smartbear]

Completely forgot to update this. Fitted the 2nd CCV kit a couple of months ago with no change in behaviour sadly. Very frustrating indeed!

Hi my friend, do you solve your car problem? I have the same problem

Sadly not! I am not sure I ever will if I am honest!

I recently upgraded my Bosch coilpacks to the new Delphi units BMW now recommends, along with NGK Iridium plugs. It make the car start and run smoother for sure, however I still have some odd idle issues for the first 20 seconds or so after starting the car from cold. That I am going to presume is the CCV which in my case (black top N52) requires new rocker cover as its embedded.

I would change plugs and coils and see if the issue is still there mate, its not that expensive in the long run and something worth doing regardless.

EDIT: Just realised I only read the first page of this thread which is a few years old now and have not caught up with the rest, my bad but my advice still stands in case you have not yet changed those components haha.

Thanks for the input. This crossed my mind when I replaced the coils as I replaced them with Bosch coils, despite knowing about the updated Delphi part. I can't remember why, but I don't think I could get the Delphi coils at a reasonable price at the time. I am not convinced it would make any difference in my circumstance, but who knows! :lol: I think my next port of call is a new Siemens MAF. But at £130 or so, it's a lot to gamble on :/

Have you driven your car with the maf disconnected so it runs on the default map? If it runs well it points to a faulty maf.
Rob