N20 Engine - Fleet Average

[Deepseaskateboard]

I have been doing some research, primarily with the question, if the N20 can make 280bhp, why do bmw sell it in the 18, and 20i with such comparatively low power output.

Most of this is now deduction based on various posts about not just BMW cars, so take with a pinch of salt.

I don’t believe the 28i is just beefed up for marketing and profit, or BMW being sneaky.

I think they de-tune the engines (not just Z4s) to decrease fleet average emissions. Take the 3series for example, they have a 316, 318, 320, 328 etc. The more models they have at the lower end, the more their average fuel emissions drop. BMW are a large scale manufacturer, and are subject to pretty tough emissions targets.

Another reason they may detune is so more people have affordable insurance and road tax. From a manufacturing point of view, it’s undoubtedly cheaper to just make them all the same, but in various states of electronic tune.

The final part of my research leads to Belgium, where even Porsche limit their Cayman, Boxter, Macaan and Cayenne to 220hp in a detuned state, and this is just down to local taxes.

It’s feasible given the eurozone, that BMW would just output the 18 and 20 to comply with benchmarks set by other countries, and not having to re-touch for different markets.
Keeps production simple.

So, I think I have found the answer to this, it’s a geopolitical environmental, bureaucratic & manufacturing efficiency issue all bundled into cars from all OEMs.

Since doing this research I think it’s now ok to get my 20i remapped to around 260bhp, as it shouldn't be putting extra stress on the design tolerances of the engine, it’s just waking it up!

 

[Silverstar]

Quite correct, all this downsizing small capacity turbo motors are a direct result of manufacturers being forced to do it due to emission legislations, if it wasn't for that manufacturers would still be putting out large capacity naturally aspirated motors. In your case yes I don't see any reason why you can't safely up the power since the 28i already comes with around 260bhp from the factory. All these stupid legislations emission / noise etc. on cars by the EU and other governments are ruining cars. Cars and motorist as always will be the easy target for these bunch unelected loonies.

 

[Smartbear]

It’s not emissions driven, all versions of the 20i have identical economy figures & tax brackets
Rob

 

[Maybach_man]

Thanks for the info.. Just a very small deviation... i have assumed that all N20 engines, 18i, 20i and 28i are completely identical and its only the dme that is different. But had a guy on one of the FB groups recently who was absolutely certain that the 28i had different pistons and compression...is this true?..is it an area thng, dont think he was in the UK

 

[Deepseaskateboard]

It’s not emissions driven, all versions of the 20i have identical economy figures & tax brackets
Rob

I think it’s to do with a european tax called fiscal horsepower

We don’t have it here.
I think France, Italy, Spain and Belgium use that system.

 

[Deepseaskateboard]

Thanks for the info.. Just a very small deviation... i have assumed that all N20 engines, 18i, 20i and 28i are completely identical and its only the dme that is different. But had a guy on one of the FB groups recently who was absolutely certain that the 28i had different pistons and compression...is this true?..is it an area thng, dont think he was in the UK

I have looked at several sources, the engine and drivetrain all appear to be identical, with the only difference on the 28i being larger front brakes, and additional options like auto dimming mirror as standard etc.

 

[Silverstar]

It’s not emissions driven, all versions of the 20i have identical economy figures & tax brackets
Rob

I think it’s to do with a european tax called fiscal horsepower

We don’t have it here.
I think France, Italy, Spain and Belgium use that system.

Spain doesn't, car tax is based on the rated Co2 only.

 

[Deepseaskateboard]

It’s not emissions driven, all versions of the 20i have identical economy figures & tax brackets
Rob

I think it’s to do with a european tax called fiscal horsepower

We don’t have it here.
I think France, Italy, Spain and Belgium use that system.

Spain doesn't, car tax is based on the rated Co2 only.

I had a quick scan of this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_horsepower

I said in the original post ‘take with a pinch of salt’ as I have not done a fully documented and referenced post, I probably should have, but I was being lazy!

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info.. Just a very small deviation... i have assumed that all N20 engines, 18i, 20i and 28i are completely identical and its only the dme that is different. But had a guy on one of the FB groups recently who was absolutely certain that the 28i had different pistons and compression...is this true?..is it an area thng, dont think he was in the UK

There is a version of the N20 that did change the compression ratio but it was used in limited markets and wasn’t used in one of the modular product lines like the E89 in various markets..

 

[Anonymous]

I have been doing some research, primarily with the question, if the N20 can make 280bhp, why do bmw sell it in the 18, and 20i with such comparatively low power output.

Most of this is now deduction based on various posts about not just BMW cars, so take with a pinch of salt.

I don’t believe the 28i is just beefed up for marketing and profit, or BMW being sneaky.

I think they de-tune the engines (not just Z4s) to decrease fleet average emissions. Take the 3series for example, they have a 316, 318, 320, 328 etc. The more models they have at the lower end, the more their average fuel emissions drop. BMW are a large scale manufacturer, and are subject to pretty tough emissions targets.

Another reason they may detune is so more people have affordable insurance and road tax. From a manufacturing point of view, it’s undoubtedly cheaper to just make them all the same, but in various states of electronic tune.

The final part of my research leads to Belgium, where even Porsche limit their Cayman, Boxter, Macaan and Cayenne to 220hp in a detuned state, and this is just down to local taxes.

It’s feasible given the eurozone, that BMW would just output the 18 and 20 to comply with benchmarks set by other countries, and not having to re-touch for different markets.
Keeps production simple.

So, I think I have found the answer to this, it’s a geopolitical environmental, bureaucratic & manufacturing efficiency issue all bundled into cars from all OEMs.

Since doing this research I think it’s now ok to get my 20i remapped to around 260bhp, as it shouldn't be putting extra stress on the design tolerances of the engine, it’s just waking it up!

Your thesis is partially correct..certain national markets have arbitrary break points based on bhp and other issue eg CO2 emissions..

Whereas it’s true that in the E89s the CO2/fuel burnt numbers are largely similar across all variants that’s not all the story ..

Certain cars like 7 series could not cope with being dragged along by a 18i whereas for a 1 series that could work..both presentationally and practically..

Equally important manufactures can charge a lot more for say a 28i (£7k) than a 20i because most of the public will allow them to get away with it..

Way back in the 1970s IBM sold the same physical mainframe for millions GBP and one upgrade cost £1.6m..it involved an engineer coming out and swapping boards..it turned out the boards were identical just a dip switch on one board was in a different position for that £1.6m..

 

[Colin_E]

I reckon it mainly boils down to what economists call 'price discrimination'. Suppose BMW made just one variant at a price somewhere roughly midway between 18i & 28i. They'd lose the extra premium they can charge for the 28i and additionally they'd lose some sales from those who could only afford the 18i. Paradoxically they would also turn off some of the 28i market who are attracted by having a 'superior version'.
This way they get to maximise the revenue by demand segment without the manufacturing cost of multiple engines.

 

[Deepseaskateboard]

I have been doing some research, primarily with the question, if the N20 can make 280bhp, why do bmw sell it in the 18, and 20i with such comparatively low power output.

Most of this is now deduction based on various posts about not just BMW cars, so take with a pinch of salt.

I don’t believe the 28i is just beefed up for marketing and profit, or BMW being sneaky.

I think they de-tune the engines (not just Z4s) to decrease fleet average emissions. Take the 3series for example, they have a 316, 318, 320, 328 etc. The more models they have at the lower end, the more their average fuel emissions drop. BMW are a large scale manufacturer, and are subject to pretty tough emissions targets.

Another reason they may detune is so more people have affordable insurance and road tax. From a manufacturing point of view, it’s undoubtedly cheaper to just make them all the same, but in various states of electronic tune.

The final part of my research leads to Belgium, where even Porsche limit their Cayman, Boxter, Macaan and Cayenne to 220hp in a detuned state, and this is just down to local taxes.

It’s feasible given the eurozone, that BMW would just output the 18 and 20 to comply with benchmarks set by other countries, and not having to re-touch for different markets.
Keeps production simple.

So, I think I have found the answer to this, it’s a geopolitical environmental, bureaucratic & manufacturing efficiency issue all bundled into cars from all OEMs.

Since doing this research I think it’s now ok to get my 20i remapped to around 260bhp, as it shouldn't be putting extra stress on the design tolerances of the engine, it’s just waking it up!

Your thesis is partially correct..certain national markets have arbitrary break points based on bhp and other issue eg CO2 emissions..

Whereas it’s true that in the E89s the CO2/fuel burnt numbers are largely similar across all variants that’s not all the story ..

Certain cars like 7 series could not cope with being dragged along by a 18i whereas for a 1 series that could work..both presentationally and practically..

Equally important manufactures can charge a lot more for say a 28i (£7k) than a 20i because most of the public will allow them to get away with it..

Way back in the 1970s IBM sold the same physical mainframe for millions GBP and one upgrade cost £1.6m..it involved an engineer coming out and swapping boards..it turned out the boards were identical just a dip switch on one board was in a different position for that £1.6m..

I suppose we see this with Tesla, selling the same car but turning off certain features. Owners can then pay for them to be unlocked.

 

[Anonymous]

I reckon it mainly boils down to what economists call 'price discrimination'. Suppose BMW made just one variant at a price somewhere roughly midway between 18i & 28i. They'd lose the extra premium they can charge for the 28i and additionally they'd lose some sales from those who could only afford the 18i. Paradoxically they would also turn off some of the 28i market who are attracted by having a 'superior version'.
This way they get to maximise the revenue by demand segment without the manufacturing cost of multiple engines.

If you think about sweets..you could just make 1kg bars of chocolate..it would sell, but more versions sell more..if you think how simple a model range for say Ford was in the 1980s and now..with just in time manufacturing and modular approach to design and software enable featrures then..