Margaret Thatcher

I suspect that thatcher's policies did very little for people who wanted to do very little. I certainly don't think they girded anyone who wanted to get out, work and make something of themselves.

no one has a right to one single job, that would be ridiculous economically.
 
1postseller said:
original guvnor said:
Devilsadvocate said:
That's exactly what she did, and it was the beginning of why we have the Country we have now, where people don't look out for each other.

Claptrap. They destroyed themselves. They wouldn't hold a secret ballot which is why the Notts miners wouldn't strike. Perhaps there might have been a different outcome if the NUM had been interested in democracy. They followed a leader (Scargill) who thought he could carry on like Gormley did. They got what was coming to them.

More clap trap, the strike was in 1984/5. Closures didnt happen for another 7 years.

Oh dear - at least do a bit of research first. Is that too much to ask?

Wrong, very wrong.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3500979.stm
 
Carol M said:
536918_362368890540848_2079479367_n_zpsfacf3209.jpg

So that was the prat that saddled us with all of this welfare and NHS bill. No wonder he didn't get a "ceremonial" (not a state) funeral. They must have known something even then!
 
StevenH72 said:
A Tony Blair discussion must be next on the agenda!

What a complete cock he was/is and as for Brown please don't say anything to make me laugh as I've got a split lip !!!
 
I've been resisting joining in on this one, but...

When Margaret Thatcher became PM there were 4 major problems in the UK which had been festering for many years: 1. perpetual strikes and trade union power, 2. Northern Ireland, 3. the terms for the UK in the European Economic Community and 4. high annual inflation. Soon after becoming PM, the problem of Argentina and its attempt to claim the Falkland Islands was added to this list. By standing resolute and acting as a true leader, all these major problems were eventually resolved and she braved great personal danger by so doing (remember the Brighton bomb?). MT was also pivotal in the thawing of the Cold War.

Ultimately, the UK was in the best shape it had ever been when John Major was PM (he'd also been a Chancellor under Thatcher) and if the Tories had remained in power, the UK today would be a far better place than it is now. Unfortunately, he was lampooned as being a "grey man" because he lacked charisma and Tony B liar posing as "Bambi" seemed more interesting to many voters who were beginning to embrace the "celebrity culture". When Labour were elected, the architect of "new" labour, Peter Mandelson said: "I'm incredibly relaxed about people getting filthy rich" (obviously meaning himself and Blair) and Gordon Clown became Chancellor. Brown wasn't content to simply manage the UK on the receipts from taxation, instead he instantly made a "windfall tax" on the pension funds (which has f**ked up pensions ever since), sold of our gold reserves when gold was at a low in the market and also benefitted from a £20bn windfall from licensing the 3G mobile phone system. He blew the lot!

It's 23 years since Margaret Thatcher was PM and we've had 13 years of labour government in the interim, so I fail to see the logic of anyone who claims that she's responsible for the ills that exist today.

With specific regard to the demise of the UK mining industry: the "dark satanic mills" were already in decline in the 1940s onwards and Fred Dibnah demolished most of their chimneys. Many towns in the North were declared "Smokeless Zones" in the 1950s as central heating started to appear and steam engines were being replaced by diesel engines on the railways in the 1960s. So the writing was on the wall for mining for decades before MT became PM. Scargill was just an activist using the miners to further his own political agenda. If he'd had a shred of interest in the welfare of the miners he would've worked with the government to ensure that mine closures were traded for replacement jobs in modern industries set up in their location.

I'm sure that if Margaret Thatcher were PM today, she'd make sure that all the bankers who'd caused our economic collapse were properly punished, unlike this lot who won't say boo to a goose! Shame there's nobody like her now.
 
original guvnor said:
Carol M said:

So that was the prat that saddled us with all of this welfare and NHS bill. No wonder he didn't get a "ceremonial" (not a state) funeral. They must have known something even then!

You're joking about the NHS right? For all its faults and mis-management etc, etc would you want it privatised?
Take Ireland, you ask there would they rather keep their health system or have a similar one to ours and I guarantee you they would change in the blink of an eye. I have family living there that moved over from the uk and that is the biggest thing they complain about is the health system over there and how they wish it were the same as here.
 
TitanTim said:
A complete misunderstanding of 60 years of Politics there lol :oops:

Tim.
Maggie aside.
I am curious to hear how you feel Attlee and the postwar government has been misrepresented?

He certainly had a quiet funeral. I read that only 150 people attended.
 
exdos said:
I've been resisting joining in on this one, but...

When Margaret Thatcher became PM there were 4 major problems in the UK which had been festering for many years: 1. perpetual strikes and trade union power, 2. Northern Ireland, 3. the terms for the UK in the European Economic Community and 4. high annual inflation. Soon after becoming PM, the problem of Argentina and its attempt to claim the Falkland Islands was added to this list. By standing resolute and acting as a true leader, all these major problems were eventually resolved and she braved great personal danger by so doing (remember the Brighton bomb?). MT was also pivotal in the thawing of the Cold War.

Ultimately, the UK was in the best shape it had ever been when John Major was PM (he'd also been a Chancellor under Thatcher) and if the Tories had remained in power, the UK today would be a far better place than it is now. Unfortunately, he was lampooned as being a "grey man" because he lacked charisma and Tony B liar posing as "Bambi" seemed more interesting to many voters who were beginning to embrace the "celebrity culture". When Labour were elected, the architect of "new" labour, Peter Mandelson said: "I'm incredibly relaxed about people getting filthy rich" (obviously meaning himself and Blair) and Gordon Clown became Chancellor. Brown wasn't content to simply manage the UK on the receipts from taxation, instead he instantly made a "windfall tax" on the pension funds (which has f**ked up pensions ever since), sold of our gold reserves when gold was at a low in the market and also benefitted from a £20bn windfall from licensing the 3G mobile phone system. He blew the lot!

It's 23 years since Margaret Thatcher was PM and we've had 13 years of labour government in the interim, so I fail to see the logic of anyone who claims that she's responsible for the ills that exist today.

With specific regard to the demise of the UK mining industry: the "dark satanic mills" were already in decline in the 1940s onwards and Fred Dibnah demolished most of their chimneys. Many towns in the North were declared "Smokeless Zones" in the 1950s as central heating started to appear and steam engines were being replaced by diesel engines on the railways in the 1960s. So the writing was on the wall for mining for decades before MT became PM. Scargill was just an activist using the miners to further his own political agenda. If he'd had a shred of interest in the welfare of the miners he would've worked with the government to ensure that mine closures were traded for replacement jobs in modern industries set up in their location.

I'm sure that if Margaret Thatcher were PM today, she'd make sure that all the bankers who'd caused our economic collapse were properly punished, unlike this lot who won't say boo to a goose! Shame there's nobody like her now.

Well said :thumbsup:
 
Finisterre said:
TitanTim said:
A complete misunderstanding of 60 years of Politics there lol :oops:

Tim.
Maggie aside.
I am curious to hear how you feel Attlee and the postwar government has been misrepresented?

X 2 I can't see any misrepresentations in those statements.
 
Carol M said:
original guvnor said:
Carol M said:

So that was the prat that saddled us with all of this welfare and NHS bill. No wonder he didn't get a "ceremonial" (not a state) funeral. They must have known something even then!

You're joking about the NHS right? For all its faults and mis-management etc, etc would you want it privatised?
Take Ireland, you ask there would they rather keep their health system or have a similar one to ours and I guarantee you they would change in the blink of an eye. I have family living there that moved over from the uk and that is the biggest thing they complain about is the health system over there and how they wish it were the same as here.

Yes I would like it privatised but not a 2-speed if-you-can't-afford-it-you-get-dumped-in-a-crap-hospital type system. I personally think all politicians know we cannot afford the rising cost of healthcare (NHS already costs us over £100bn a year and it is rising fast) but nobody in the main political arena is prepared to put their head above the parapet and say it, so that we can have a proper grown up conversation about how it might work. A private system will also be a lot less wasteful because we employ an army of bureaucrats to check the bureaucrats are running the system and not wasting public money! But, that's for a separate thread.
 
Carol M said:
Finisterre said:
TitanTim said:
A complete misunderstanding of 60 years of Politics there lol :oops:

Tim.
Maggie aside.
I am curious to hear how you feel Attlee and the postwar government has been misrepresented?

X 2 I can't see any misrepresentations in those statements.

Without putting words in Tim's mouth, I suspect he means that the environment they had to operate in was very different. It was easy to create full employment when we were re-building the country and spending billions on infrastructure, another thing all together when you inherit an economy with rampant inflation, public sector chaos and a massive loan from the IMF.
 
Carol M said:
Finisterre said:
TitanTim said:
A complete misunderstanding of 60 years of Politics there lol :oops:

Tim.
Maggie aside.
I am curious to hear how you feel Attlee and the postwar government has been misrepresented?

X 2 I can't see any misrepresentations in those statements.

they are fair.

The unfairness in the above cartoon is in the differences of context. Many of the statements while being straightforward and justifiable are also not fully her responsibility. Her style of leadership being narcissistic and psychopathic certainly led to a lack of consensus. Yet the changes wrought are changes necessitated by structural difficulties and several weak governments failing to act with an eye to the future during the 70s.

It is an amusing cartoon but things were more complex than that.
 
In Bristol:

http://bristol.indymedia.org.uk/article/731728

http://m.thisisbristol.co.uk/story.html?aid=18661984

http://youtu.be/K4K-sINrgBY

:erm:

:scratchhead:
 
It may cost us £100 billion a year but, and I know the nhs is very flawed, there are other more unworthy things our money is spent on. Welfare payments for immigrants, the vast cost of keeping our armed forces in Afghanistan etc....blah, blah. If they stopped spending so much money on those things and improved the NHS then surely it would be of benefit than privatisation where very likely there would be better care for the wealthy than the poor, even more so than there is now.
 
original guvnor said:
Yes I would like it privatised but not a 2-speed if-you-can't-afford-it-you-get-dumped-in-a-crap-hospital type system. I personally think all politicians know we cannot afford the rising cost of healthcare (NHS already costs us over £100bn a year and it is rising fast) but nobody in the main political arena is prepared to put their head above the parapet and say it, so that we can have a proper grown up conversation about how it might work. A private system will also be a lot less wasteful because we employ an army of bureaucrats to check the bureaucrats are running the system and not wasting public money! But, that's for a separate thread.

I agree that we are headed for a precipice and our leaders are being craven and underhand when we need a full and intelligent discussion of options, goals, and underlying ethics before the crash happens. I am uncertain about the best way forward. Another discussion sometime?
 
original guvnor said:
Without putting words in Tim's mouth, I suspect he means that the environment they had to operate in was very different. It was easy to create full employment when we were re-building the country and spending billions on infrastructure, another thing all together when you inherit an economy with rampant inflation, public sector chaos and a massive loan from the IMF.

are we playing snap?
 
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