M3 diff installed in non-M Z4
- Thread starter v8z4
- Start date
Bloody hell that looks fun!!
Best get back to work i have loads of exhaust tips to finish.
Best get back to work i have loads of exhaust tips to finish.
Or just bolt one of these on cant be any more difficult than that :?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jaguar-XJR-Eaton-M90-Supercharger-/261210185807?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cd157204f
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jaguar-XJR-Eaton-M90-Supercharger-/261210185807?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cd157204f
Machine monkey said:GreyZed said:v8z4 said:
If you seriously believe this to be true I suggest you do not carry out any form of DIY mechanical work on your car until you have read some books.
A standard diff uses side gears/spider gears to enable the driven wheels (yes plural - both wheels drive the car!) to rotate at different rates to allow cornering. The system is very efficient when traction is good (on roads) but will by design direct more power to the wheel with least resistance (ie a wheel losing traction in mud/gravel) thus causing wheelspin.
A limited slip diff operates like a mini clutch system to resist this effect so that the power directed to the driven wheels is more equally balanced even when traction is compromised.
Massively over simplified but there you go that's why if you jack the back end of your car up and drive the wheels one will spin due to no resistance.
That might be a bit harsh. I recon there a lots of competent amateur and professional mechanics out there that couldn't give a perfect recollection of how an LSD works. Bet they are still good at there jobs. And anyway isn't this what forums are about? Chatting learning. You obviously have a great deal of knowledge GreyZed and v8z4 obviously know about a bit of stuff to even attempt something like this. I have great ideas for things all the time. The thing that stops me is a lack of info knowledge and time. This forum can help with all of those. I would really like to supercharge my car with a twin screw type charger. I can make the brackets i could make it fit. Its the lack of understanding/ Working out what size and would this work would that work that is stopping me. I hope when i get round to it there will be someone else with that particular skill set wanting one too. And i could help with my skills.
Monkey
Why you silver tongued cavalier you! Have you considered a career in politics? The silverness of your tongue is only equalled by that of your exhaust tips and gear knobs MM. A bit harsh my comments may well have been but certainly not intended to offend merely to make a point that all good jobs should begin with research prep and planning. Sounds boring but in my younger car fiddling days I read many a Haynes manual over a cuppa whilst contemplating how to approach jobs before getting the spanners out. Things tend to go wrong even when you fully understand what you're working with but it is then the knowledge you gathered before you started that allows you to react correctly and achieve a good and safe result.
Having said that I really can't believe that someone would think a Zed is 1WD
Sorry I'll get me coat.The missus is always telling me I'm insensitive.
I am sure a political career would pay better!!
And all women tell all men that!!
And working on car has many a pit fall. I have been in many a pit with my zed. Any way what do you know about superchargers?? How much pressure can i get away with on my 2003 3.0l and is 350BHP realistic??
And all women tell all men that!!
And working on car has many a pit fall. I have been in many a pit with my zed. Any way what do you know about superchargers?? How much pressure can i get away with on my 2003 3.0l and is 350BHP realistic??
Machine monkey said:
Ha ha! I know one thing - you'll need deep pockets to fit one to a Zed!
The supercharger is a cheaper blower retrofit to most engines than a turbo as it requires a simpler belt drive rather than major exhaust mods. You are chasing bigger explosions which create greater pressures and more heat so head gasket failures and potential overheating may be a concern though some actually claim that blown engines place less stress on components as the greater power delivery is generated at lower rpm than in unblown (normally aspirated) engines.
I've thought about this once or twice myself after looking into remaps which don't seem to yield much out of the Zed but tbh it would probably be cheaper to buy bhp by selling up and getting an M or an Alpina or a 350z. I'm sure someone on here will have plonked a supercharger on an M54 and will frighten us off with the total cost!
231 horses arses are enough for me at the moment. My next mod is going to be a quad exhaust.
Quad exhaust best mod I have done.
I don't agree it has to coast the earth. I am so unbelievably tight and resourceful I think/ hope to gain 100 or so fine horses for 1k. I don't expect 750 Bhp from my car so no high boost needed think more of an inhaler for the engine.
I don't agree it has to coast the earth. I am so unbelievably tight and resourceful I think/ hope to gain 100 or so fine horses for 1k. I don't expect 750 Bhp from my car so no high boost needed think more of an inhaler for the engine.
GreyZed said:v8z4 said:
If you seriously believe this to be true I suggest you do not carry out any form of DIY mechanical work on your car until you have read some books.
A standard diff uses side gears/spider gears to enable the driven wheels (yes plural - both wheels drive the car!) to rotate at different rates to allow cornering. The system is very efficient when traction is good (on roads) but will by design direct more power to the wheel with least resistance (ie a wheel losing traction in mud/gravel) thus causing wheelspin.
A limited slip diff operates like a mini clutch system to resist this effect so that the power directed to the driven wheels is more equally balanced even when traction is compromised.
Massively over simplified but there you go that's why if you jack the back end of your car up and drive the wheels one will spin due to no resistance.
Yes I'm aware of all of that and I was over simplifying as well.
Whenever there is a load imbalance, power will be transferred to the unloaded wheel (rather than the loaded) and thus (in essence) only one wheel pulls.
Machine monkey said:
Nothing wrong with running the car in the air, provided you load the trailing arms (want to keep the CVs from being at extreme angles). I use jack stands under the car (under the rear jack pads so it can't fall) and jack stands under the trailing arms (for the CV alignment). Obliviously you don't want to go banging through the gears (I never spin the wheels more than ~20MPH for safety reasons), but for diagnosing gear/diff/rear brake/etc noise, it's a very useful tool.
Kinda thought you would have known a bit.
Yeah I suppose but I am the kind of guy that the worst happens to! Think Ferris Buellers dy off!!!
Reall keen to to do this and will be watching this project with interest
Yeah I suppose but I am the kind of guy that the worst happens to! Think Ferris Buellers dy off!!!
Reall keen to to do this and will be watching this project with interest
PERSONALLY, I have found that for the home builder a turbocharger can be done cheaper than a supercharger.
They both require an intercooler/aftercooler and pipe. Both should have a blow-off valve. Both require tuning. So many things are the same.
However, to buy a decent supercharger head unit is somewhere in the $1500-$2000 range (last I checked). Then brackets have to be fabricated (which can be costly just in material, even if one has access to a mill). Then an 8-rib pulley system is advisable.
By comparison, a decent turbocharger (particularly for a 3.0 liter engine) can be had anywhere from $500-$1000 (I'm talking basic oil cooled bronze bearing style cartridge, not ball bearing turbo as it's not needed). I have seen ebay manifolds that look decent for $500 but a good steel manifold made from thick wall steel pipe is well within most home garage mechanic/welder's ability (might not be 'pretty' but certainly works).
You didn't hurt my feelings. My oversimplification made it seem like I was calling the open diff a "1WD". But for what it's worth, under high HP/torque conditions it might as well be. If it can't stick both wheels to the ground, the open diff is going to transfer all the power to the open wheel and then you are in 1WD mode.
Since I was a young child, I have been reading and digging through hot-rod, automotive engineering manuals, and anything else I could get my hands on (I was the "weird kid" that did school book reports on supercharger and engine building books :lol: ). Add to that a lot of failed attempts and re-dos, I'm getting pretty confident at trying just about anything. But, I'm still a long ways from knowing everything. I'm more at the level of "knows just enough to be 'dangerous'..." :evil: :lol:
They both require an intercooler/aftercooler and pipe. Both should have a blow-off valve. Both require tuning. So many things are the same.
However, to buy a decent supercharger head unit is somewhere in the $1500-$2000 range (last I checked). Then brackets have to be fabricated (which can be costly just in material, even if one has access to a mill). Then an 8-rib pulley system is advisable.
By comparison, a decent turbocharger (particularly for a 3.0 liter engine) can be had anywhere from $500-$1000 (I'm talking basic oil cooled bronze bearing style cartridge, not ball bearing turbo as it's not needed). I have seen ebay manifolds that look decent for $500 but a good steel manifold made from thick wall steel pipe is well within most home garage mechanic/welder's ability (might not be 'pretty' but certainly works).
GreyZed said:Why you silver tongued cavalier you! Have you considered a career in politics? The silverness of your tongue is only equalled by that of your exhaust tips and gear knobs MM. A bit harsh my comments may well have been but certainly not intended to offend merely to make a point that all good jobs should begin with research prep and planning. Sounds boring but in my younger car fiddling days I read many a Haynes manual over a cuppa whilst contemplating how to approach jobs before getting the spanners out. Things tend to go wrong even when you fully understand what you're working with but it is then the knowledge you gathered before you started that allows you to react correctly and achieve a good and safe result.
Having said that I really can't believe that someone would think a Zed is 1WD
The missus is always telling me I'm insensitive.
You didn't hurt my feelings. My oversimplification made it seem like I was calling the open diff a "1WD". But for what it's worth, under high HP/torque conditions it might as well be. If it can't stick both wheels to the ground, the open diff is going to transfer all the power to the open wheel and then you are in 1WD mode.
Since I was a young child, I have been reading and digging through hot-rod, automotive engineering manuals, and anything else I could get my hands on (I was the "weird kid" that did school book reports on supercharger and engine building books :lol: ). Add to that a lot of failed attempts and re-dos, I'm getting pretty confident at trying just about anything. But, I'm still a long ways from knowing everything. I'm more at the level of "knows just enough to be 'dangerous'..." :evil: :lol:
Yeah I have to look into it much more. It's just an idea right now. I don't like turbo engines I have had a few. Never had a charged one.
Mills and lathes I have a plenty brackets and pulleys no problem for me. It's everything else holding me back!!
1wd good for circles!!!
Mills and lathes I have a plenty brackets and pulleys no problem for me. It's everything else holding me back!!
1wd good for circles!!!
Machine monkey said:
With a mill and a lathe, it's certainly doable. On one car I did, I built a bracket for a vacuum pump out of 1/2" aluminum plate (milled to shape). I don't know how/it would be interested to see how someone would package a twin screw setup into the Z4 (side mount it?). All of the twin screws I'm aware of are maid to mount to a manifold, so they would require some sort of "box" to blow into. It's unfortunate that these cars don't have aluminum manifolds, otherwise one could simply cut the "face" of the manifold off (where the TB mounts), weld a new plate on, and bolt the supercharger there (with support brackets added). For packaging, the centrifugal is hard to beat.
I still believe that IF I weren't doing an engine swap, I'd turbocharge the Z4. It has that huge open area on the left side behind the passenger's side shock tower (I know I know.... your steering wheel is on the wrong side and goes right through that place
).Aluminium manifold fabricated job done. I just fancy twin screw because of the power delivery. If its not possible it will be an engine swap as I don't want a turbo zed. And I don't think I want an M either. The only constant is my zed I love it.
To be complete honest it has more power than I do talent already. So lessons are going to be needed as well!! It might take a while but I am in no hurry.
To be complete honest it has more power than I do talent already. So lessons are going to be needed as well!! It might take a while but I am in no hurry.
Doubts I had of hitting any form of modding wall are thankfully being brushed aside by threads like this! And a pep talk by monkey!! :lol: now on the look out!
Home made Turbo: my brother and I made one for a 600cc CBR engine in his Go-Kart! I will dig out some pics... Lethal thing!! Not too bad to fabricate either. Shame the thing got nicked
Home made Turbo: my brother and I made one for a 600cc CBR engine in his Go-Kart! I will dig out some pics... Lethal thing!! Not too bad to fabricate either. Shame the thing got nicked
LukeMace said:Doubts I had of hitting any form of modding wall are thankfully being brushed aside by threads like this! And a pep talk by monkey!! :lol: now on the look out!
Home made Turbo: my brother and I made one for a 600cc CBR engine in his Go-Kart! I will dig out some pics... Lethal thing!! Not too bad to fabricate either. Shame the thing got nicked
I enjoy reading the "junk yard turbo builds" that people do. It's always fun to see what combinations people come up with to make something work. http://www.theturboforums.com/forums/224-DIY-and-Junkyard-Turbo-Tech
That's exactly as I see it Luke