M market watch

[mr wilks]

This ILB with champagne M roady looks a nice thing but at £14250 on 76k the seller is deluded
I doubt his phone will be ringing this side of £12k & fitting 4 "Landsail" tyres is taking the pi$$ :thumbsdown:
Hope he's not a forum member


http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bmw/z4m-roadster/bmw-z-series-z4-m-roadster--------------2007/6393782

 

[Dave1971]

This ILB with champagne M roady looks a nice thing but at £14250 on 76k the seller is deluded
I doubt his phone will be ringing this side of £12k & fitting 4 "Landsail" tyres is taking the pi$$ :thumbsdown:
Hope he's not a forum member


http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bmw/z4m-roadster/bmw-z-series-z4-m-roadster--------------2007/6393782

Very similar to my Imola red one I sold to Cracker about 15 months ago, except mine had quality tyres on it and 69k on the clock. Also just had an insp 2 and a vanos overhall so nothing mechanical to spend for some time.

I'd say you're spot on at about 2k overpriced.

 

[breezer]

At 76k mikes isn't that, according to forum consensus, overdue for shell bearing replacement? That'd worry me more (and cost more) than needing an Insp. II...

 

[autobahner]

Genuine shells supplied and fitted were iro £700 at Munich Legends for reference. :wink:

 

[mr wilks]

At 76k mikes isn't that, according to forum consensus, overdue for shell bearing replacement? That'd worry me more (and cost more) than needing an Insp. II...

Depends what you want to believe :?
i know there's plenty of S54s out there & on here with 76k & more that are running just fine as they are & if looked after correctly i see no reason why that won't continue to double those miles

 

[no fit state]

At 76k mikes isn't that, according to forum consensus, overdue for shell bearing replacement? That'd worry me more (and cost more) than needing an Insp. II...

Strange never heard that on M3cutters while running an E46 M3 which shares the same engine and with cars with much higher miles. Sounds more like forum ocd to me. How many engines have had shell bearing problems here? I'm not here as much as others but can only remember the odd post about them. Certainly not enough to to make anything fact.

 

[srhutch]

At 76k mikes isn't that, according to forum consensus, overdue for shell bearing replacement? That'd worry me more (and cost more) than needing an Insp. II...

Depends what you want to believe :?
i know there's plenty of S54s out there & on here with 76k & more that are running just fine as they are & if looked after correctly i see no reason why that won't continue to double those miles

Agree with Andy. there are a few on here that suggest its done but they are generally the one who track there car or seriously modify it.

 

[afennell]

I dont think i have ever been a member of a forum that expresses opinion for numerous cars advertised are over priced.

Admittedly i have only been watching the market for about three months, but from the cars i have seen advertised and more importantly viewed 12k will get you a 80k+ tatty example.

I have not seen the car advertised, but its a great spec car, wheels look good, brakes look new, just services. So if the rest of the service history checks out and its a clean tidy example surely early to mid thirteens. But only if its a very clean example.

I have seen a few examples 60k and less that are looking tatty, this weekend i saw one that looked practically new with 70k miles, and heaps of history. The point im trying to make is that its hard to see the exact condition of a car from an advert and condition also dictates price.

Dont undervalue your cars guys and girls, there are allot of tatty examples out there.

 

[mr wilks]

I dont think i have ever been a member of a forum that expresses opinion for numerous cars advertised are over priced.

Admittedly i have only been watching the market for about three months, but from the cars i have seen advertised and more importantly viewed 12k will get you a 80k+ tatty example.

I have not seen the car advertised, but its a great spec car, wheels look good, brakes look new, just services. So if the rest of the service history checks out and its a clean tidy example surely early to mid thirteens. But only if its a very clean example.

I have seen a few examples 60k and less that are looking tatty, this weekend i saw one that looked practically new with 70k miles, and heaps of history. The point im trying to make is that its hard to see the exact condition of a car from an advert and condition also dictates price.

Dont undervalue your cars guys and girls, there are allot of tatty examples out there.

The simple fact is there have been many forum cars with similar spec + history + miles struggle to sell the past 6 months for much less money & they have been advertised both here to the educated & to the masses through various online selling mediums
Search "Ncrossy" "Liam" & "wackydoo" for just 3 examples & there have been countless others to work out that £14250 for that car on peasant rubber is too much money & i mean that no matter what condition the car is in
I appreciate your arguement RE actual condition of a good car V a shabby one but without viewing every car advertised you have to assume its as the seller describes it , , , only actual viewing will reveal all but the reason most are for sale months & months is quite simple , , they are asking too much money for them
One example here from a decent dealer so will come with warranty & prepped for £1k less & most likely get £250/£500 off on the sale ? Its 2yrs year newer & comes with proper rubber :wink:

http://www4.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201608096640366?model=Z4M&advertising-location=at_cars&sort=price-asc&make=BMW&radius=50&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&postcode=bb120hr&page=1

 

[afennell]

Don't get me wrong, I do feel the car is over priced but 12k seems too low.
If the red car had sat nav I wonder if it would still be for sale, Cars without this option seem to take longer to sell.

Left hand side of the bonnet does not seem to sit correctly, is this just the left latch not closed?

 

[mr wilks]

Don't get me wrong, I do feel the car is over priced but 12k seems too low.
If the red car had sat nav I wonder if it would still be for sale, Cars without this option seem to take longer to sell.

Left hand side of the bonnet does not seem to sit correctly, is this just the left latch not closed?

Yep it does look slightly out of line :? Perhaps a front end makeover at some point ? a common drawback to having the nosecone repainted is many garages struggle to re align it correctly on the re fit
Not back in UK until the 27th Nov but planning to view the car the following weekend if its still for sale

 

[Beedub]

I dont think i have ever been a member of a forum that expresses opinion for numerous cars advertised are over priced.

Admittedly i have only been watching the market for about three months, but from the cars i have seen advertised and more importantly viewed 12k will get you a 80k+ tatty example.

I have not seen the car advertised, but its a great spec car, wheels look good, brakes look new, just services. So if the rest of the service history checks out and its a clean tidy example surely early to mid thirteens. But only if its a very clean example.

I have seen a few examples 60k and less that are looking tatty, this weekend i saw one that looked practically new with 70k miles, and heaps of history. The point im trying to make is that its hard to see the exact condition of a car from an advert and condition also dictates price.

Dont undervalue your cars guys and girls, there are allot of tatty examples out there.

im not even going to lie..... some of your points are so true.... this thread and forum in general has become a place where we seem to almost drive down the values, nit-picking at the pretty much any new car available on the market and suggesting why they are overpriced....it happens over and over again ( I've actually just sat back and re read a good chunk of this thread) ..... I'm not talking about the leggy examples like the 100k plus club which will always cause a stir pricing wise these will always be a conversation point, i see it with LOTS of low mile nice z4ms, infact any new car that comes to market now seems to end up in this thread and why its over priced.... Or why its low price is "bang on For the current market".... Any car the at even dare approach strong money is often seen as madness, dealer money, sytner crazy pricing, dreamer, etc etc etc...

honestly?? i think this market watch thread should be deleted...... and i REALLY REALLY am glad you came in and posted that, i didnt even think about that way until i read, looked back, a good few pages and actually your right.

I do think we all need to stop analysing the market, posting up every car that pops up on eBay or in the adverts here or anywhere, if a baggy 110k mile car makes 12k !! awesome, if a low mile, low owner car sells at 25k awesome for the car, it deserves to sell for strong money imo...
Hell the hexagon car up for 50k!! AWESOME!! I'm happy its up at that price even if it is bonkers...

i think all comments in the ads section should be removed unless its specifically about the car, too often we end up in discussions in peoples actual for sale threads about why the car is too highly priced etc... and i agree.... it needs to change.. IMO anyway......

i cant change for everyone but.... i can change what i do.. moving forward. Thanks for that @afennell.

 

[mr wilks]

I dont think i have ever been a member of a forum that expresses opinion for numerous cars advertised are over priced.

Admittedly i have only been watching the market for about three months, but from the cars i have seen advertised and more importantly viewed 12k will get you a 80k+ tatty example.

I have not seen the car advertised, but its a great spec car, wheels look good, brakes look new, just services. So if the rest of the service history checks out and its a clean tidy example surely early to mid thirteens. But only if its a very clean example.

I have seen a few examples 60k and less that are looking tatty, this weekend i saw one that looked practically new with 70k miles, and heaps of history. The point im trying to make is that its hard to see the exact condition of a car from an advert and condition also dictates price.

Dont undervalue your cars guys and girls, there are allot of tatty examples out there.

im not even going to lie..... some of your points are so true.... this thread and forum in general has become a place where we seem to almost drive down the values, nit-picking at the pretty much any new car available on the market and suggesting why they are overpriced....it happens over and over again ( I've actually just sat back and re read a good chunk of this thread) ..... I'm not talking about the leggy examples like the 100k plus club which will always cause a stir pricing wise these will always be a conversation point, i see it with LOTS of low mile nice z4ms, infact any new car that comes to market now seems to end up in this thread and why its over priced.... Or why its low price is "bang on For the current market".... Any car the at even dare approach strong money is often seen as madness, dealer money, sytner crazy pricing, dreamer, etc etc etc...

honestly?? i think this market watch thread should be deleted...... and i REALLY REALLY am glad you came in and posted that, i didnt even think about that way until i read, looked back, a good few pages and actually your right.

I do think we all need to stop analysing the market, posting up every car that pops up on eBay or in the adverts here or anywhere, if a baggy 110k mile car makes 12k !! awesome, if a low mile, low owner car sells at 25k awesome for the car, it deserves to sell for strong money imo...
Hell the hexagon car up for 50k!! AWESOME!! I'm happy its up at that price even if it is bonkers...

i think all comments in the ads section should be removed unless its specifically about the car, too often we end up in discussions in peoples actual for sale threads about why the car is too highly priced etc... and i agree.... it needs to change.. IMO anyway......

i cant change for everyone but.... i can change what i do.. moving forward. Thanks for that @afennell.

Sorry mate but i,m struggling to find any real substance in the above or "afennells" previous post ?
Unfortunately life in the real world sometimes comes with bitter pills to swallow , either take them or sit back & enjoy the ivory tower's you write from because unless you post up substantiated facts its difficult to give any credit to what you write
This thread is here for exactly the purpose it was created for & that's to freely discuss current cars on the ///M market for both sellers & buyers
If the topics don't suit you can't just take your ball home

 

[Beedub]

I dont think i have ever been a member of a forum that expresses opinion for numerous cars advertised are over priced.

Admittedly i have only been watching the market for about three months, but from the cars i have seen advertised and more importantly viewed 12k will get you a 80k+ tatty example.

I have not seen the car advertised, but its a great spec car, wheels look good, brakes look new, just services. So if the rest of the service history checks out and its a clean tidy example surely early to mid thirteens. But only if its a very clean example.

I have seen a few examples 60k and less that are looking tatty, this weekend i saw one that looked practically new with 70k miles, and heaps of history. The point im trying to make is that its hard to see the exact condition of a car from an advert and condition also dictates price.

Dont undervalue your cars guys and girls, there are allot of tatty examples out there.

im not even going to lie..... some of your points are so true.... this thread and forum in general has become a place where we seem to almost drive down the values, nit-picking at the pretty much any new car available on the market and suggesting why they are overpriced....it happens over and over again ( I've actually just sat back and re read a good chunk of this thread) ..... I'm not talking about the leggy examples like the 100k plus club which will always cause a stir pricing wise these will always be a conversation point, i see it with LOTS of low mile nice z4ms, infact any new car that comes to market now seems to end up in this thread and why its over priced.... Or why its low price is "bang on For the current market".... Any car the at even dare approach strong money is often seen as madness, dealer money, sytner crazy pricing, dreamer, etc etc etc...

honestly?? i think this market watch thread should be deleted...... and i REALLY REALLY am glad you came in and posted that, i didnt even think about that way until i read, looked back, a good few pages and actually your right.

I do think we all need to stop analysing the market, posting up every car that pops up on eBay or in the adverts here or anywhere, if a baggy 110k mile car makes 12k !! awesome, if a low mile, low owner car sells at 25k awesome for the car, it deserves to sell for strong money imo...
Hell the hexagon car up for 50k!! AWESOME!! I'm happy its up at that price even if it is bonkers...

i think all comments in the ads section should be removed unless its specifically about the car, too often we end up in discussions in peoples actual for sale threads about why the car is too highly priced etc... and i agree.... it needs to change.. IMO anyway......

i cant change for everyone but.... i can change what i do.. moving forward. Thanks for that @afennell.

Sorry mate but i,m struggling to find any real substance in the above or "afennells" previous post ?
Unfortunately life in the real world sometimes comes with bitter pills to swallow , either take them or sit back & enjoy the ivory tower's you write from because unless you post up substantiated facts its difficult to give any credit to what you write
This thread is here for exactly the purpose it was created for & that's to freely discuss current cars on the ///M market for both sellers & buyers
If the topics don't suit you can't just take your ball home

it is what it is really ..... we don't need to agree but for what its worth... you are imo the worst offender of the above..... often using words like "deluded" "madness" to describe a seller of a car you feel over priced.... picking at every detail of the car, you seem to have taken on the role of the z4m head police of the value department and dictate whats a good price ( 14250 and lower bracket ) and whats "delusional" an tbh i dont think its constructive. This is a great forum i really enjoy being here, but we have some cultures emerging that just leave a sour taste. The values are what they are... we dont need to help further drive them down by naming anything that goes over 16k as crazy..... take the time to read back.... really take the time and see what i mean. I'm sure we all have at some point commented on price but a few do it consistently and in a negative way, but thats my opinion. i think the original direction of the thread has got lost and now its a free for all to comment in any which way about the cars on sale, I'm a z4m owner and have been for nearly a decade... i WANT the values to rise and they will in time, but this thread on the main z4 platform in the uk, with its big page count of the above is imo.... not helping. forget bitter pills, forget real life etc etc this thread and its general "content" towards cars on the market just doesn't help..

let me go back just 1 page.... let alone the other 140+

"This ILB with champagne M roady looks a nice thing but at £14250 on 76k the seller is deluded
I doubt his phone will be ringing this side of £12k & fitting 4 "Landsail" tyres is taking the pi$$ :thumbsdown:
Hope he's not a forum member "

Come on guys... hows ^^^^^ this helping.... this thread is FULL of this type of dialogue.

wilks i ask politely, and urge you to just stop posting in this way, its counterintuitive and i think as a group of z4m owners we should put a stop to it now. This is of course my opinion and I'm sure many wont agree but you are a long standing well respected member of the forum so maybe people dont feel comfortable speaking out, hell maybe I'm just talking for myself. id like to thing I'm doing it in the right way however.

 

[mr wilks]

Over 60000 views & over 2000 replies on this thread Beedub so a pretty popular thread by all accounts
Its title should give you a clue as to what the topic is being discussed
Its of little relevance to the marketplace what you hope the prices will achieve in years to come , its also of little relevance whether i think a seller is deluded or not , its merely my own thoughts & opinion offered onto a thread specifically running to discuss ///M cars in the current marketplace which by definition will invite scrutiny to both the car , the advert & of course the price
If you think the £14250 ILB on 76k is good value then say so , it won't make it sell or stick , the marketplace will dictate its value & from what we have seen the past 6 months anyone who pays £14k for that car as a private sale with no warranty or rights is overpaying when comparing other similar cars that have sold for much less
Bear in mind many new members join up to the forum to actively seek a car . They most likely haven't spent years following the ups & downs so may be confused when the online marketplace offers seemingly similar cars ranging from £10k to £25k ?
So if specific comments offered within this thread to certain cars helps someone who was considering buying it but not really know what to pay save themselves a few ££ then that's fine by me , sorry if that doesn't suit you but its not a thread to talk values into the realms of dreamland , you'd have to start that one yourself :wink:

 

[Beedub]

Over 60000 views & over 2000 replies on this thread Beedub so a pretty popular thread by all accounts
Its title should give you a clue as to what the topic is being discussed
Its of little relevance to the marketplace what you hope the prices will achieve in years to come , its also of little relevance whether i think a seller is deluded or not , its merely my own thoughts & opinion offered onto a thread specifically running to discuss ///M cars in the current marketplace which by definition will invite scrutiny to both the car , the advert & of course the price
If you think the £14250 ILB on 76k is good value then say so , it won't make it sell or stick , the marketplace will dictate its value & from what we have seen the past 6 months anyone who pays £14k for that car as a private sale with no warranty or rights is overpaying when comparing other similar cars that have sold for much less
Bear in mind many new members join up to the forum to actively seek a car . They most likely haven't spent years following the ups & downs so may be confused when the online marketplace offers seemingly similar cars ranging from £10k to £25k ?
So if specific comments offered within this thread to certain cars helps someone who was considering buying it but not really know what to pay save themselves a few ££ then that's fine by me , sorry if that doesn't suit you but its not a thread to talk values into the realms of dreamland , you'd have to start that one yourself :wink:

like i said.... agree to disagree.
this year i attended my first meet in my decade of z4 ownership so , The next meet i attend with you present you'll be my first stop.... it seems i may need some educating.

 

[original guvnor]

I don't find these sorts of threads very helpful. They are almost always negative to seller and pro buyer. Which seems odd on an owners Forum. It's a bit like watching a group of women bitch about another woman's appearance walking down the street.

They also tend to attract the sort of person who wants to buy a Z4M who will tell you they are worthless and then when they buy one all of a sudden it's an appreciating classic. What a coincidence. Until they've sold it and bought something else, then it's worthless again. There's examples of that on this very thread when people don't realise what they've posted previously. About the only advantage of a 148 page thread. That's not Mr Wilks though - I think he does genuinely have no axe to grind either way because he's a regular buyer and seller, and he's got plenty of experience of the market in the 70-100k mileage bracket because that's where he likes to pick up a bargain and try and run a depreciation proof model.

 

[Beedub]

I don't find these sorts of threads very helpful. They are almost always negative to seller and pro buyer. Which seems odd on an owners Forum. It's a bit like watching a group of women bitch about another woman's appearance walking down the street.

They also tend to attract the sort of person who wants to buy a Z4M who will tell you they are worthless and then when they buy one all of a sudden it's an appreciating classic. What a coincidence. Until they've sold it and bought something else, then it's worthless again. There's examples of that on this very thread when people don't realise what they've posted previously. About the only advantage of a 148 page thread. That's not Mr Wilks though - I think he does genuinely have no axe to grind either way because he's a regular buyer and seller, and he's got plenty of experience of the market in the 70-100k mileage bracket because that's where he likes to pick up a bargain and try and run a depreciation proof model.

nice to see you post OG.. thanks for the input..

 

[mr wilks]

like i said.... agree to disagree.
this year i attended my first meet in my decade of z4 ownership so , The next meet i attend with you present you'll be my first stop.... it seems i may need some educating.

Yea of course , it wouldn't be a very interesting forum if everyone followed the same tracks
If i continually posted comments or links that every car was overpriced you may have a fair point but i don't , i am just as likely to throw up offerings that look well priced or at times look too cheap .
I'm certainly not attempting to talk values up or down , they are what they are & after 4 years i still find this "snakes & ladders "part of Z ownership very interesting
Catch you at Zfest most likely unless the market for ///Ms has rocketed then most current members will have sold on

 

[mr wilks]

I don't find these sorts of threads very helpful. They are almost always negative to seller and pro buyer. Which seems odd on an owners Forum. It's a bit like watching a group of women bitch about another woman's appearance walking down the street.

They also tend to attract the sort of person who wants to buy a Z4M who will tell you they are worthless and then when they buy one all of a sudden it's an appreciating classic. What a coincidence. Until they've sold it and bought something else, then it's worthless again. There's examples of that on this very thread when people don't realise what they've posted previously. About the only advantage of a 148 page thread. That's not Mr Wilks though - I think he does genuinely have no axe to grind either way because he's a regular buyer and seller, and he's got plenty of experience of the market in the 70-100k mileage bracket because that's where he likes to pick up a bargain and try and run a depreciation proof model.

Cheers OG , i guess a car forum will always have a divide between current owners & potential buyers so getting the balance of fairness to both sides will be difficult
As you point out the Z4 (no matter the model ) can offer depreciation proof motoring which is a rare thing in the car world & as any car owner will no doubt be aware its depreciation that costs more than running costs with majority of cars
For me the 70k/100k bracket is where the bang for bucks is most obvious across the Z range & bought right can be enjoyed without costing the earth
Ive no doubt this thread will continue for years to come so will make interesting reading as to where the values go