M market watch

mr wilks said:
Well @Beedub ,@AndyBeech @ Markos @breezer as it appears theirs now a multitude of you happy to single me out i can't do much else but stand my corner
I guess i should feel flattered that you felt the need to get involved & back each other up :? i don't cause in reality i couldn't give a toss what you think :oops: at least 3 of you have written plenty of b0ll0x i never commented as i'm more amused by it than annoyed

Now just before you do hang me high or perhaps anyone else joins in maybe just have the decency to read back the last 2 months sale posts containing approx 20 forum members cars
A quick scan earlier i counted just 3 comments from myself out of approx 350 by others :roll: 2 are positive & 1 suggests adding the current miles to the advert :wink:

However as the situation of adding comments to certain posts / threads is clearly annoying to some members i'm going to refrain from commenting on any sale post by a forum member & also to completely withdraw from this particular ///M market watch thread ( i will however still be contributing to my own 3.0 Coupe watch thread as it shouldn't effect any of you :) )

Now all you need to do is convince everyone else who offers their comments or thoughts to the relevant threads to do the same & you can all rest easy :thumbsup:

Bw
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forum culture change for the total forum i said... myself included I'm guilty of commenting on peoples ads as well its a piss take because it wouldnt like it, and markos is highlighting its off-putting to people, andy says he wouldnt put his car on here and nor would i actually because we all know what would happen,..... this needs to be a change the mods administer imo. Very sensitive response as far as I'm aware I'm the only one that mentioned your name in fairness to the guys you mentioned as it was only me that called your name, but make no mistake this is a forum culture issue and imo the mods who need to stop it from happening, its harming to a very special platform, no one is doing anything to be a bastard etc WE have just fell into some bad habits... that life it happen, we change and adapt, realisation of it is the key...

like i said we can chat about it at Zfest or earlier if possible, you said your piece earlier to which we didnt agree and both politely left it their so I'm not sure why your spitting the dummy now.
 
Beedub said:
it is what it is really ..... we don't need to agree but for what its worth... you are imo the worst offender of the above..... often using words like "deluded" "madness" to describe a seller of a car you feel over priced.... picking at every detail of the car, you seem to have taken on the role of the z4m head police of the value department and dictate whats a good price ( 14250 and lower bracket ) and whats "delusional"

"This ILB with champagne M roady looks a nice thing but at £14250 on 76k the seller is deluded :cry:
I doubt his phone will be ringing this side of £12k & fitting 4 "Landsail" tyres is taking the pi$$ :thumbsdown:
Hope he's not a forum member :( "

Come on guys... hows ^^^^^ this helping.... this thread is FULL of this type of dialogue.

wilks i ask politely, and urge you to just stop posting in this way, its counterintuitive and i think as a group of z4m owners we should put a stop to it now. This is of course my opinion and I'm sure many wont agree but you are a long standing well respected member of the forum so maybe people dont feel comfortable speaking out, hell maybe I'm just talking for myself. id like to thing I'm doing it in the right way however.
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Yea agreed to disagree even when you wrote the above which is blatantly singling me out as the worst offender
Then you get 1,2,3 others all happy as larry to jump in to your shoes & back you up quoting words ive previously written it starts to look pretty personal to me which is fine , like i say i couldn't give a toss apart from the fact that as ive pointed out , , 350 comments in the last 20 sale posts of forum members & i had 3 of them ( none negative RE the pricing btw )
Unfortunately you have fudged two completely different threads into one & for some reason labelled me as the "problem"
Sale posts are sale posts , ///M market watch is a open thread set up i presum to discuss the current cars available & that by definition will lead to discussing service history , condition , pricing & of course the actual adverts , now back to where we started 2 days ago if you or others don't like what they read you can't just delete the thread or group together in the hope you will put folks off participating
Although in a backward fashion i doubt anyone will want to get involved from here in case they faced the same fate as i have
 
mr wilks said:
Beedub said:
it is what it is really ..... we don't need to agree but for what its worth... you are imo the worst offender of the above..... often using words like "deluded" "madness" to describe a seller of a car you feel over priced.... picking at every detail of the car, you seem to have taken on the role of the z4m head police of the value department and dictate whats a good price ( 14250 and lower bracket ) and whats "delusional"

"This ILB with champagne M roady looks a nice thing but at £14250 on 76k the seller is deluded :cry:
I doubt his phone will be ringing this side of £12k & fitting 4 "Landsail" tyres is taking the pi$$ :thumbsdown:
Hope he's not a forum member :( "

Come on guys... hows ^^^^^ this helping.... this thread is FULL of this type of dialogue.

wilks i ask politely, and urge you to just stop posting in this way, its counterintuitive and i think as a group of z4m owners we should put a stop to it now. This is of course my opinion and I'm sure many wont agree but you are a long standing well respected member of the forum so maybe people dont feel comfortable speaking out, hell maybe I'm just talking for myself. id like to thing I'm doing it in the right way however.
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Yea agreed to disagree even when you wrote the above which is blatantly singling me out as the worst offender
Then you get 1,2,3 others all happy as larry to jump in to your shoes & back you up quoting words ive previously written it starts to look pretty personal to me which is fine , like i say i couldn't give a toss apart from the fact that as ive pointed out , , 350 comments in the last 20 sale posts of forum members & i had 3 of them ( none negative RE the pricing btw )
Unfortunately you have fudged two completely different threads into one & for some reason labelled me as the "problem"
Sale posts are sale posts , ///M market watch is a open thread set up i presum to discuss the current cars available & that by definition will lead to discussing service history , condition , pricing & of course the actual adverts , now back to where we started 2 days ago if you or others don't like what they read you can't just delete the thread or group together in the hope you will put folks off participating
Although in a backward fashion i doubt anyone will want to get involved from here in case they faced the same fate as i have
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yup i did... because imo you are... but this is still a forum problem and I've included myself in that too.... i haven't retracted that statement. anyway... like i said... lets talk about it at Zfest or earlier if possible ill jump on an earlier event, id dont like this internet back and forth its not my style, your getting alittle fruity now so.. like i said save it and you can vent all you wish soon enough...No ones "backing" anyone or jumping in "shoes", I'm talking about ALL of us.

IMO any chatting in peoples FS should be removed, unless its talking about service history or something that needs to be disclosed to the public like being a CAT car.

i also think this thread as i said earlier is full of negative vibes and we have gotten a culture of basically just being very judgemental on not only the cars but the pricing of whatever new one appears on the market and ends up in this thread... i wont repeat myself i just urge people to look back, let me say it again, its a FORUM culture that needs to change, i cant do it for everyone but i can do it for myself. On pretty much every other page i can link an example of what I'm talking about. it may have started in a certain vien but its ended very different.

But maybe i am just a blind and blinkered fanboy owner living in dreamland?? maybe. But still doesn't change this forum has cultures that need to change.

the fate as you??? mate.... seriously man up.... you've suffered no fate, everyones been respectful, your a valued and much loved member of the forum who from what i can see everyone respects, we are just talking opinions, i may not agree with yours or the next mans but ill respect your words and leave it their.
 
"Man up" :oops: its not me bleating about forum cultures being wrong or asking for threads to be deleted mate
The same "fate" as in if anyone dares offer their own comment or opinion onto this thread that isn't seen as constructive by a certain few then they could expect not just yourself but also others to express their contempt .
In a roundabout way youv'e almost achieved what you wanted in so much as i can't see many wanting to offer their thoughts freely from here on unless it was to say a car was undervalued , how is that a positive for a forum ?
Ive read your replies throughout this thread , many suggesting to a seller a totally unrealistic figures to hold out for :? the truth some weeks or months later is the true market value , that's your opinion , no different to me having mine
You say you read through the whole 150 pages of this thread ? I doubt it as you would see my input is no more negative & probably a lot less frequent than many others who have contributed

& as for standing by what you said ? me too , this particular one which seems to have flipped you over the edge is a prime example

"This ILB with champagne M roady looks a nice thing but at £14250 on 76k the seller is deluded :cry:
I doubt his phone will be ringing this side of £12k & fitting 4 "Landsail" tyres is taking the pi$$ :thumbsdown:
Hope he's not a forum member :( "

A so called peach of a car being sold on 4 tyres that aren't fit for purpose leaves a potential buyer with another £500 to find
Its already too much money even before that so yes , the seller is deluded in that he has no grasp of the current marketplace he's pitching into .

I think we've stretched the situation as far is it will go now without getting the thread locked & that i would definitely not want so from here on its either forget it or PM & i'l send you my mobile number
 
mr wilks said:
Well @Beedub ,@AndyBeech @ Markos @breezer as it appears theirs now a multitude of you happy to single me out i can't do much else but stand my corner
I guess i should feel flattered that you felt the need to get involved & back each other up :? i don't cause in reality i couldn't give a toss what you think :oops: at least 3 of you have written plenty of b0ll0x i never commented as i'm more amused by it than annoyed

Now just before you do hang me high or perhaps anyone else joins in maybe just have the decency to read back the last 2 months sale posts containing approx 20 forum members cars
A quick scan earlier i counted just 3 comments from myself out of approx 350 by others :roll: 2 are positive & 1 suggests adding the current miles to the advert :wink:

However as the situation of adding comments to certain posts / threads is clearly annoying to some members i'm going to refrain from commenting on any sale post by a forum member & also to completely withdraw from this particular ///M market watch thread ( i will however still be contributing to my own 3.0 Coupe watch thread as it shouldn't effect any of you :) )

Now all you need to do is convince everyone else who offers their comments or thoughts to the relevant threads to do the same & you can all rest easy :thumbsup:

Bw
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I didn't single you out in the slightest Andy. I agreed with what the other 3 said in general is all in that some for sale threads, not all of course, seem to go the way of members posting their thoughts on the valuation of the OP's car, myself included in the past. I just don't think it's constructive unless it's asked for hence why I leave that section alone now. If it doesn't sell then the OP can decide for themselves if they've priced it too high and lower if they wish. But people suggesting it's too highly priced or optimistic within days of it being posted seems odd and doubt they would appreciate it on their own cars.
Similarly with this thread really, I don't have an issue with it, but the parts discussing car adverts and in particular values of those car's when people haven't even seen the car's in the flesh seems unfair. If the advert's crap doesn't mean the actual car might be, same as haggling for a car on the phone before they've seen it, isn't that deemed bad etiquette?

Not sure why you've got so upset and saying some of us have posted bollocks in the past though. Bit unnecessary, I don't see anyone 'ganging up' on anyone, just offering their opinion, are we not allowed to agree with someone else in fear of it upsetting another? I'm sure just as many agree with yourself which is fine, you can keep posting whatever you want whenever you want as can anyone else, nothing to do with me, I offered my 2 cents that's all. As someone else said, be boring if we all agreed...
 
AndyBeech said:
Tbh, I've no idea why people find the need to comment on values in the for sale section when they have no interest in the car or even looking to purchase said model of car. I don't believe it's to 'help others' who may not know, it's almost like a guilty pleasure for some to get involved just because they can or think they know the market better then everyone else. If a buyers done their research on the car they will know rough market value, if they haven't, a fool and his money are easily parted.
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Your general agreeance to Beedubs posts which clearly name me along with your quote of my previous words made it hard to think it wasn't directed at me :wink:
Anyhow enough already said as far as i'm concerned , its all too easy to get out of hand online so no grudges held on my part
 
What Andy is saying is no worse than some others are doing with regard to the ///M in other areas.

There is one person who clearly advocates replacing bearings at 70k and as a serviceable item. To some people this will devalue the car when looking to buy if they believe this to be the case as they will factor in 1K+ to get this work done if the mileage is around this area or exceeded it.

It's a forum with the added benefit of a for sale section which costs nothing to use. As others have said, use AT, PH or eBay if you don't want comments, positive or negative.
 
mr wilks said:
AndyBeech said:
Tbh, I've no idea why people find the need to comment on values in the for sale section when they have no interest in the car or even looking to purchase said model of car. I don't believe it's to 'help others' who may not know, it's almost like a guilty pleasure for some to get involved just because they can or think they know the market better then everyone else. If a buyers done their research on the car they will know rough market value, if they haven't, a fool and his money are easily parted.
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Your general agreeance to Beedubs posts which clearly name me along with your quote of my previous words made it hard to think it wasn't directed at me :wink:
Anyhow enough already said as far as i'm concerned , its all too easy to get out of hand online so no grudges held on my part
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I'll clarify then that I agreed with the general feel of his posts and the other 2 as opposed to the naming of you or anyone in particular because that's kind of irrelevant to me. I've got no issues with anyone personally, it's only a forum after all with a bunch of names, of which I've only met a couple in person!
Yup said my bit too, no ill feelings from me towards you or anyone else :)
 
When a car is for sale,negative as well as positive things will always be there to be commented on.

Its human nature....

Buyers want an M car cheap,sellers want as much as they can get....

Its the good/bad points that set off the negotiation for the car to find its correct price,and with the Z4M being able to throw big bills at a potential owner i think the more info(good or bad) is a good thing....
 
Maybe threads like this also put people off from posting, being afraid of getting shot down for saying the wrong thing! :thumbsdown:
Good on you Andy for fighting your corner and I for one am grateful for ALL the advice you've given me on my purchases and selling :thumbsup:
 
Pastry said:
Maybe threads like this also put people off from posting, being afraid of getting shot down for saying the wrong thing! :thumbsdown:
Good on you Andy for fighting your corner and I for one am grateful for ALL the advice you've given me on my purchases and selling :thumbsup:
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:thumbsup:
 
breezer said:
...if everyone on here swore not to list a single car under £15k, that would soon become the floor price because other sellers and even dealers look around at what else is available before pricing their cars - and they naturally want the best price so if critical mass (e.g. 25%) of the market is pricing high, the rest (e.g. 75%) will see this and follow suit.
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I think we should cut the bickering and get on with the far more important task of agreeing a minimum price and artificially inflating the market ^^ :D

As a result of this, future for sale thread would be full of people saying 'it's too cheap', 'what a beauty' etc and generally patting each others backs in agreement. Sellers would be happy, and buyers would think they were getting a bargain.....win win!

Breezer, you're a genius :D
 
beanie said:
breezer said:
...if everyone on here swore not to list a single car under £15k, that would soon become the floor price because other sellers and even dealers look around at what else is available before pricing their cars - and they naturally want the best price so if critical mass (e.g. 25%) of the market is pricing high, the rest (e.g. 75%) will see this and follow suit.
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I think we should cut the bickering and get on with the far more important task of agreeing a minimum price and artificially inflating the market ^^ :D

As a result of this, future for sale thread would be full of people saying 'it's too cheap', 'what a beauty' etc and generally patting each others backs in agreement. Sellers would be happy, and buyers would think they were getting a bargain.....win win!

Breezer, you're a genius :D
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You joke, but I know the guy who moved the Ferrari 550/575 market by buying every example he could find and the re-listing them at a huge markup. He bought dozens and is THE reason that they're no longer 50k cars. It's very possible in a market of rare cars to manipulate the price to whatever the hell you want.
 
Just seen this - as a recent M purchaser and Zed seller here's my 10 penneth . . .

I remember the shock when prices of low mileage M's went up - I thought it meant I'd missed the M train. . . . those prices seem to have remained the case for low mileage examples. I was still prepared to buy into an Z4M if the one I really wanted came up (which it did) but it wasn't mr wilks posts which made me anxious over an M purchase, it was the period of constant concerns posted about bottom bearings and top end rebuilds. . . . (together with the costs of ownership) that put me off.

Amongst these posts there was one voice that seemed to be speaking logic and sense to me and that was mr wilks - I felt that his assertions that engine rebuilds were just as likely NOT to be needed was sensible given the number of Ms running and posts made and this helped me put aside some of these concerns; his advice on what to buy (in terms of Inspection timings, maintenance etc) also made sense to me.

It might be surprising to some folk but mr wilks contacted me about my advert on the forum for my 3.0si to advise me that I was UNDERSELLING and giving me advice on prices and selling techniques. He need not have done that and he was concerned that I get the best deal for my Zed.

It was a delight to meet him when he eventually bought my Zed (at my asking price) and I can report he is not looking to devalue or put down anyone's pride and joy. He genuinely enjoys the market and has a very healthy attitude to buying and selling realising there will be wins and losses (I wish I had the same approach). To me he offers a very useful insight into the market - just look at the number of Zeds he buys and sells - and he's owned and run an M. I can tell you he is a real enthusiast for all Z4s, a great bloke to meet and a real asset to this forum.

As an M owner I too keep an eye on prices and hope that my M will maintain as much of it's value as possible (in fact I'm in a bit of a dilemma as I want to use my M more but all this concern over mileage puts me off a little :cry: ) but I also value someone prepared to give an opinion (based upon knowledge and practice) that I can trust and is realistic. There's far more to M (and Zed) ownership than the windscreen price - mr wilks is one of the few people that is prepared to make that point and bring those factors into the pricing. Using his logic and insight I feel I paid a good price for my M for buyer and seller - I'm not so sure I would have felt that way without the posts I'd read through from mr wilks (and others) on the forum.

I also firmly believe that if the market improves and prices increase mr wilks will be one of the first to make note and advise accordingly.

Sadly, I now sense that there's likely to be less of this useful input from mr wilks in the future, not just on M prices but on a great deal more besides - for me (and imo the forum) that would be a big loss . . . . :(
 
original guvnor said:
I don't find these sorts of threads very helpful. They are almost always negative to seller and pro buyer. Which seems odd on an owners Forum. It's a bit like watching a group of women bitch about another woman's appearance walking down the street.

They also tend to attract the sort of person who wants to buy a Z4M who will tell you they are worthless and then when they buy one all of a sudden it's an appreciating classic. What a coincidence. Until they've sold it and bought something else, then it's worthless again. There's examples of that on this very thread when people don't realise what they've posted previously. About the only advantage of a 148 page thread.

I totally agree,o.g
As others have said,i think this thread is having a negative impact on values,as people selling do get ripped to shreds,and told they are asking too much at £16k.

There have been cars similar to mine sold by long time forum members that are 06 and 07 reg cars,selling easily at between 14&15k,with 50k miles or less,yet people would call a seller of a 45k miles 08 reg car selling at 16/17k as insanely overpriced.

Is a car 18-24 months newer,with similar spec and mileage,in similar condition,not worth £1000 -£1500 more?
I would say it was,especially as I have one,with an (independently valued) ,insurance approved,agreed value of £16750..... it's replacemant value.

Yet,if I were to sell mine at 17.250(aiming for £16500/16700), I would be shot down in flames as overpricing it.
Go figure :headbang:

This thread has become too negative,and does,imo, end up only helping drive down prices!

I don't think this was the originally intended purpose of this thread.....it was more about keeping an eye on what the cars were up for sale or selling at.
Not to rip apart sale prices and drive them down!
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I wonder whether it's a coincidence that in non English speaking countries in Europe Z4M values are nearly double what they are here?!

:fuelfire:
 
breezer said:
I wonder whether it's a coincidence that in non English speaking countries in Europe Z4M values are nearly double what they are here?!

:fuelfire:
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No, it's the crap British roads which mean only masochists enjoy driving them in the UK.
 
Some interesting posts above, I think there's a fine balance between generally chatting about different ads and tearing down list prices.

I'm certain when CSL's were once at £20k odd, if one was posted above market they'd be flamed. Look at them now...

At the end of the day these cars should be bought to drive and enjoy. IMO £14-£20k buys you little else with the smile/ fun/ running costs/ rarity factor. The market should be left alone to naturally move with D&S.
 
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